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Hello-

I started eating the autoimmune version of paleo about 2 years ago to combat severe rheumatoid arthritis. I had amazing success and improved my health a ton. I did still have lingering fatigue.

About 2 months ago I had a panic attack followed by ongoing anxiety and severe depression. I have never experienced anything like this before - it is really horrendous depression.

I am also experiencing a dramatic drop in appetite, menstrual irregularities, feeling cold all the time, and irritability.

I have had some improvement by removing acetyl-l-carnitine (I think this is what precipitated the anxiety attack) and by adding in 5-htp, tyrosine, DLPA and other things suggested in the Mood Cure. However, I am not back to normal by any means.

Has anyone ever heard of this happening? I have never been particularly low carb, but added in some daily rice since this started just in case. I take fish oil and vitamin D3. I eat so much healthy, nutrient dense foods that I just don't see how this could have happened.

Thanks to anyone who can provide some suggestions.

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Obvious, but important: are you eating enough? – JeJ Sep 30 at 3:18
This is a good point. Before this started I was eating plenty. But now I have absolutely no appetite and have been eating far too little. I would guess this is slowing down any recovery. But I literally have to choke down food right now. I'm trying, but not getting enough in. Maybe I should drink whole milk or something just to get more calories for a while? – jammies Oct 1 at 2:26

13 Answers

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What about your thyroid? Hashimoto's hypothyroid can cause those symptoms...along with unexplained weight-gain, I had every one of the symptoms you described. Have you checked this?

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Is it possible to have Hashi's with a normal TSH? I am having the labs run this week. So you had depression with your Hashi's? Were you able to get it back under control at some point? Can you tell me more? I have not had weight gain, but I will say that since this started I have barely been eating and I have only lost a couple of pounds. Food is just horrible to me right now. I force myself to eat something, but I am surprised the weight hasn't just fallen off. – jammies Sep 29 at 5:53
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I'd speculate that it's the thyroid. Tell them to test for TSH, T4, T3, and Reverse T3 (they usually only test for 1 or 2 of these -- the Reverse T3 would be very telling here). My suspicion is that because you were so long in the AI version of Paleo, very low carb, you might have run out of energy and your body has freaked out. I'd suggest you add some carbs back to your diet, by the means of fruits, tubers, some raw & unfiltered local honey, and if you can handle it, goat kefir. I had something similar happening to me a few months ago. I had to eat 200 gr of carbs daily for a week to get better. After that, I stabilized at around 100-130 gr of net carbs daily. Also, don't forget shellfish, organ meat, bone broth, and sea vegetables.

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Thanks for the suggestion. I did get all those tests - although I don't think he ordered the reverse T3 - unfortunately. The results should be in next week. I have never been very low carb paleo though - I eat fruit, sweet potatoes, and some white rice. I am pretty good about the micronutrient food groups as well. But I will bump carbs even further and see what happens. It's hard right now since my appetite is completely gone. I have to force food in at this point. – jammies Sep 30 at 0:16
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I doubt it has anything at all to do with your diet. 2 years of steady lifestyle without much change and then boom panic and anxiety? I'd see a regular doc and a psych. Get some blood tests done that may shed light on any hormonal/other abnormalities, please don't try to do this alone, the general distrust and contempt for western medicine that can float around this site is alarming. there are great doctors out there and great psychologists or psychiatrists that can save you a ton of unnecessary suffering.

Best of luck.

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Thanks. I did go to my general practice doctor for this to start with. She checked my TSH level and told me the hormonal issues were caused by stress. She also said I should come back in two weeks for anti-depressants if I don't feel better. I guess I need to keep shopping for a new doctor. I am seeing a nutrition minded naturopath/chiropracter. But to be honest, I don't have a ton of faith in him. He said this was probably caused by an accidental exposure to gluten. I just don't buy it. I think I will keep looking for a better physician to work with. Thanks! – jammies Sep 29 at 22:20
So because what your doctor said wasn't what you wanted to hear you completely disregard it? Why exactly do you think an avg nutritionist/chiropractor (not shady at all btw) would know any more, or even close to as much for that matter as the avg MD? I implore you, speak again with your doc, find out WHY he says/thinks what he/she does. Do not just throw information out even if you don't like it. – cbucker Oct 1 at 0:16
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Yeah, it's not all diet. In normal cases, things like depression and anxiety are caused by life circumstances rather than diet. I mean, diet has an effect, certainly, on your mood, but it by no means provides the content of your emotional life. It sounds like you have some deep work to do, therapeutically, whatever that means to you.

Also, what's your diet like? I'm battling severe rheumatoid arthritis as well and have been on the paleo diet for 6 months. I'd like to compare our diets. Do you eat red meat? nuts and seeds? fruit? How low carb are you?

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I don't think this depression was necessarily caused by life. Nothing really changed that I know of. But I am exploring it in therapy. As for my diet, I do the low lectin paleo - no nuts, eggs, nightshades, dairy (except ghee), or coffee. I eat lots of red meat, veggies, fruits, tubers. I don't intentionally eat low or high carb - so I would guess I cycle carbs. The difference was amazing for me - I was flared in almost all my joints while on 4 meds. I am not down to one drug and have almost zero swelling or pain in my joints. It's ironic that I became depressed AFTER fixing my body. – jammies Sep 29 at 5:25
Yes, that is ironic. Do you really think it's related to your diet? Did you take antibiotics or corticosteroids leading up to your depressive break? – Dan Sep 29 at 5:30
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Hmmm....no steroids lately. Although I did take steroids for more than 2 years prior to going primal. However, now that you mention it, I did have to take a course of antibiotic a couple months ago for a sinus infection. My GI health has been really off since all this started. Could there be a link there? I don't want to believe it is related to diet. This diet has saved my life. But I don't want to let my bias keep me from looking in to it. – jammies Sep 29 at 5:46
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Aside from diet, if you have taken a course of antibiotics, you may have wrecked your gut flora, which, in my opinion is the centerpiece of one's physical and emotional wellbeing. See what happens if you work hard to repopulate by taking high quality probiotics and especially by eating raw, unpasteurized or homemade fermented foods like sauerkraut with every meal. I don't think your diet caused your depression, but I do think it's related to your gut health. – Dan Sep 29 at 6:00
Actually, did you experience severe depression/anxiety before you got rheumatoid arthritis? I know I did, and I feel like the depression transformed itself into the arthritis. I know it sounds crazy, but I'm convinced that's what happened. Perhaps now that the RA is gone, the underlying cause (spiritual dissatisfaction of some sort) is resurfacing. You can call me crazy, and I know many will, especially likeslardinmayo and VB, but it may be something to consider. – Dan Sep 29 at 23:47
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To really comment on this, id need two things:

A) Some emotional background. Do you have freinds, a happy life. Have you been through anything scary etc. Stuff that might relate to depression or anxiety.

b) What do you eat. You might be missing something, but hard to know what, without a pretty detailled account of your food. Have you tried putting your diet through cronometer to see what you are missing or low on?

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Oh and do you eat liver BTW? – Jamie Sep 29 at 6:04
Thanks Jamie. I do have a nice social circle of good friends, although I don't have a ton of energy to spend time with them. I also moved to a new place about 2 years ago. I have made friends here, but my energy does keep me home a bit. I am making a very concerted effort to be more social since all this started. I do have a chronic illness, but have had it for years and feel better physically than I ever have. So it would surprise me to have depression cause by it now. But it is possible. – jammies Sep 29 at 6:09
As for my diet, I eat lots of red meat, butter, chicken, chicken stock, most veggies, sweet potatoes, fruit. I try to make sure i eat liver, oysters, sea weed, brazil nuts, and some bone marrow weekly. I don't always get them all in, but at least a few times a month. I do eat some white rice. No eggs, nuts, nightshades, coffee. I also had been doing intermittent fasting many days, but have stopped that as much as possible since this all started. Thanks for your help!! – jammies Sep 29 at 6:11
Totally agree on both points, Jamie. – VB Sep 29 at 6:30
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Do you drink tap water, wash veggies in tap water or shower in tap water?

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I think I know what you are getting at, but who doesn't shower in tap water? – Happy Now Sep 29 at 6:08
I drink reverse osmosis water. I shower in tap water, but it does go through a carbon filter in the shower head that gets changed every three months. I do wash my fruits and veggies in tap water. – jammies Sep 29 at 6:13
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  1. I don't have an answer to your question.

  2. I am not a doctor (disclaimer)

  3. I have a feeling that it could be not diet related but L-carnitine related. My herbal doctor advised me against it - he told me that it had severe side effects in some people. Here is something I found:

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-834-ACETYL-L-CARNITINE.aspx?activeIngredientId=834&activeIngredientName=ACETYL-L-CARNITINE

  1. If it was triggered by hypothyroidism, you might want to follow Ray Peat's dietary guidelines.
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+1, call it a piece offering. Ray Peat can be a life saver or he can really screw you up (personal experience trying his stuff). Do your research on Peat... – Satchmo Sep 29 at 5:45
To the OP, that was. Apparently i'm Yoda tonight – Satchmo Sep 29 at 5:46
I feel like there is a clear link between starting the carnitine and the anxiety. Did your herbal doctor say anything about the types of side effects people had? How long can that crap last in my system though!?!?!? I will look in to Ray Peat now.....with caution :) – jammies Sep 29 at 5:50
He did but .... I don't really want to say anything - maybe you don't have it and then you will be alarmed for nothing. – VB Sep 29 at 5:53
I am open to anything at this point, VB. I am desperate for any path to investigate. – jammies Sep 29 at 6:02
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Sometimes a freak reaction/event happens due to a multitude of possible factors - a virus, too little sleep, a stray thought etc and everything that happens after is merely because of it.

Whether diet is affecting this or not, there are starving people who are far more ill than you who are relatively happy. There are kids with cancer who still laugh when the clown comes in to the hospital ward. If anyone was going to be depressed, it'd be them.

After a traumatic event a health conscious person scare themselves into a state of lasting worry. "Oh my god, perhaps it was that carrot I ate...or this.... or that... but I don't want to get my arthritis back....I thought everything was perfect and I had it all figured out but now the future is so uncertain!"

Rather than forget about it -the health conscious, solve everything through diet person- will search for the reason "why do I feel anxious" and cause further anxiety- you get into a viscous cycle.

The trick here is to instead focus on solutions rather than the problem. Ask yourself the following questions:

What things make me feel good and how can I do them more?

I recommend you watch some "Antony Robbins" on depression. Just search and you'll find a couple videos.

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You say you take vitamin D. How much do you take? I woukld recommend reading "Sunlight Robbery" to see what you have to do to up levels of vitamin D in your body. There is also a very good thread on the subject on a low carb forum called The Great Vitamin D experiment. It was there that I found my ideal dose to take to recover from severe low vitamin D levels. You have to increase your levels until you "feel happy" - for me that was in the beginning 8000 iU per day. These days I take 5000 iU in winter and 2000 in summer if it rains a lot. I have been taking it for 6 years now and have not had a cold once. Believe me if you feel happy you have tons more energy and no depression.

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You want to shoot for a level around 65 to 70. – uberbulldog Sep 29 at 17:16
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If you are a woman my guess would be too much estrogen. It causes all of your symptoms and it may have nothing at all to do with being Paleo and more to do with age. Estrogen and progesterone get out of balance in your late 30's to early 40's. Run your symptoms through this test and see what you come up with: http://www.johnleemd.com/store/resource_hormonetest.html

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Yes - I am definitely having some hormonal issues. My periods have been late, cramping is worse, and I am having a lot of pain and irritability during ovulation. I am 38, so I guess it's the right age. Right now I am having thyroid and adrenal testing done. Maybe I should have hormonal work done too. Argh - this stuff is all sooo expensive! I guess I am hoping if I can figure if there is an adrenal and thyroid issue, maybe the hormones will balance out. – jammies Sep 29 at 22:14
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if you were seeing a therapist prior to the attack, i would ask him/her to review what you were working on just prior to the attack. perhaps you hit on something that you don't even realize is important.

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No - I made an appointment with the therapist after the panic attack and depression started. He has been helpful, but I feel really sure that something biochemical has shifted in my body. I will continue with the therapist for a while to keep digging and see what I can find. – jammies Sep 29 at 22:16
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I have been following the Mood Cure suggestions with some success, as I mentioned. But still have a long way to go.

I am really considering spending the $4000 to go to her clinic. It will take me forever to pay that amount off, so I am hesitant. Anyone here ever try her clinic?

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I know this is very late and hope it's resolved a little for you now, but do your moods fluctuate? Upwards and downwards, like, monthly? Or does anybody else in your family have anxiety/depression? I started getting this in my early 20s and found out my mum, grandfather and aunt get it too so it's genetic. For the anxiety, I find Focus by Brauer (a spray from the chemist) very helpful. For depression or mood swings, try Vit B6 or Evening Primrose Oil. And perhaps get your bloodwork done for oestrogen/progesterone/thyroid levels too.

And thank you for your post. I have severe RA as well and am into week 2 of the autoimmune paleo diet. No results yet, but you have given me hope in that regard!

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