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Glenn Gaesser is a professor at Arizona State University who asserts there are no benefits to going gluten-free, and he also says there are benefits to eating gluten... but having spent lots of time reading posts here, most Paleo Hackers agree there are no benefits to eating gluten, right? (With the exception of the witty observation someone had that eating grains gives you the "ability" to eat grains, in the sense that the body gets used to feeling terrible... or something to that effect.)

Gaesser is funded by the Grain Foods Federation, which makes him clearly suspect, but he also asserts there is no "published literature on the health benefits of gluten-free diets for people without celiac disease, gluten sensitivity or autoimmune disorders."

Here is the article I am referring to: https://asunews.asu.edu/201201008_glutenfreeresearch

Surely, this is incorrect, right? Not to mention all the first hand accounts (the n=1?) of benefits to folks who have gone gluten-free.

Does anyone know of these studies that he claims cannot be found? And if so, how is he missing finding them?

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There are also n=1 accounts of people like me who see no ill effects from going gluten-free - or going back on gluten after months off it. Good question. – Wisper Oct 13 at 10:31
Therefore gluten has been shown to have no effect one way or the other in some people. Very few people. – BoneBrothFast Oct 13 at 14:16

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The other portion to the problem is they don't do studies on relatively healthy people to determine if something makes them healthier. They wouldn't even know where to start. They need a symptom to even begin with. Doing something to cultivate health is different than doing it to alleviate a physiological adaptive state. The evidence against gluten for relatively healthy people is biochemical and physiological rather than full on clinical trials http://robbwolf.com/2011/01/12/hey-robb-this-person-said-gluten-free-diets-are-bogus/

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Eww... and no antibodies DOES NOT guarantee no damage... "Gluten stresses your gut cells. They scream on the molecular level. NK cells cells get in there and put them out of their misery. This is (auto) immunity. It does NOT REQUIRE antibody production. high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/… – JayJay Oct 13 at 1:59
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How do you measure what "healthy" is? – meta Oct 13 at 2:06
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Respond to the biochemistry if you like...bring some of your own insight to the table. – JayJay Oct 13 at 2:11
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^ I actually agree with the last two sentences. I believe thats even what my answer states. As to the first...I can and have defined health for me and the people I interact with. As you state thought there is not a "strict" definition ....well the World Health Organization states it as "Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity." So that would have to be your "strict" authoritative answer, but you could easily write a dissertation expanding on what that means. – JayJay Oct 13 at 4:28
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And more to the point that is why I said you have to go to biochemistry and physiological study and extrapolate from there. Because in a clinical study sense they do have to have a variable to manipulate....normally this involves a "disease" because of marketability. Well that is a bit cynical. But, not entirely untrue. – JayJay Oct 13 at 4:30
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In the past year (since being diagnosed with celiac disease) I've been searching for why cutting wheat/gluten-grains may not be healthy. Nutritionists' and dietitians' articles don't usually mention specifics, and most seem to just rail against gluten-free diets as a "fad", rather than addressing what may actually be unhealthy about them.

So in my searching, I've found two reasons why not eating wheat could potentially make someone less healthy. One is that it contains prebiotics that help bacteria in our guts thrive. This is easy to find in other foods, though. If you don't have a bacterial overgrowth problem, and you go gluten free, you could get these prebiotics from onions, mushrooms, apples, and/or oranges (or some other source of prebiotics: these are just the most common). The second is that wheat is one of the main sources of betaine, which we need for one of two pathways to convert homocysteine back to methionine in the methylation cycle. The other main sources are spinach and quinoa (though it may not be digestible from quinoa). So if you cut out wheat, it's probably a good idea to get some spinach in your diet.

So those are the only benefits I could find for eating wheat, and they're easy to get around.

As for the benefits of NOT eating gluten/wheat: I suspect that the 30-some-odd percent of people with the celiac genes (HLA DQ2.5, DQ2.2) have some sort of immune response to gluten when they eat it, though for most people it's subclinical. Some of the research suggests that gluten causes a zonulin response in everyone, but most people have something that closes the tight junctions before it causes diarrhea. So that suggests that gluten isn't good for anyone. I haven't come across any definitive research, though.

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+1 nice answer. There is also the gluten sensitive individuals that actually have neither of the celiac genes. Recent research showed that 44% of patients with gluten sensitivity were actually HLA negative. – JayJay Oct 13 at 16:01
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I'm sure you've probably seen this, but just in case your interested (as you seem very well informed) biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/9/23 – JayJay Oct 13 at 16:03
The "prebiotics" in grains tend to help the "wrong" flora thrive in the gut. – wildwabbit Oct 13 at 17:07
Wildwabbit, do you have a source for that? In people who don't have bacterial overgrowth, I thought beta-glucans were beneficial. Here is a 2010 study (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023594) of the effects of a gluten-free diet on gut flora that discusses some of this. They found that non-celiacs showed a decrease in beneficial gut flora after a month of eating gluten-free. Grains have prebiotics in the form of beta-glucans, but you can also find beta-glucans in mushrooms. Additionally, they found reduced inflammation after a month of eating a gluten-free diet. – Sara S. Oct 13 at 17:46
Inulin and resistant starch are both pre-biotics and are pretty common. Again of course this comes down to replacing your bread with real food instead of some kind of bread substitute. I beleive beta-glucans are richest in asian mushrooms. I wonder too, what effect an excess of pre-biotics and acellular carbs would have on "bad" bacteria. Actually from what I read of that article I question their objectivity. Certain strains of E. coli are the only probiotics with any significant evidence of benefit. – Jamie Oct 26 at 8:23
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"published literature on the health benefits of gluten-free diets for people without celiac disease, gluten sensitivity or autoimmune disorders."

The key is in that quote right there. Of course there's not going to be any benefits to going gluten-free for someone who has no sensitivity to gluten. The point is that there are a whole lot more people who are sensitive to gluten than realized or that test positive for celiac.

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But that is also kind of what I mean - if almost a third of us (am I getting that number correct?) are gluten sensitive, and not "diagnosed", per se, then in those studies they are categorized in the "without celiac disease, gluten sensitivity or autoimmune disorders" group, and would actually show improvement on a gluten-free diet. – PinkPika Oct 13 at 1:36
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Which would indicate that indeed folks who are "without celiac disease, gluten sensitivity or autoimmune disorders" are in those studies, who in reality ARE gluten-sensitive (just undiagnosed because they did not fail/pass the celiac test), and would skew results in favor of changing to a GF diet, right? – PinkPika Oct 13 at 1:42
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@ Harry what is the current diagnostics of gluten sensitivity? What is its sensitivity and specificity? Are there other measures or ways that gluten could harm you without being detected by the current regularly used procedures? – JayJay Oct 13 at 2:21
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@Harry: Can you? I'd suggest you study more before coming into this debate. Seems your a couple years behind on research in gluten sensitivity and wheat allergy. That quote was only given as it was a conclusion based on the research in which he was involved. Clinical algorithms are already being presented that recognize the lack/inaccuracies of lab diagnostics for GS. – JayJay Oct 13 at 14:18
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Thanks, JayJay. Totally agreed on "relentless questions" and ignoring any answers he is given in favor of more questions. Also, as to "showing no symptoms," the average person may not realize that they are having symptoms that can indicate gluten intolerance, such as skin issues, chronic fatigue, upset digestion, mood imbalances. They're more likely to just go to the doctor and get a pill. – Varelse Oct 13 at 16:15
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The absence of a study proves nothing. One could make this claim about anything unstudied. However, we should take care in drawing conclusions about or critiquing research based on a press release about research without actually reading the research, which the linked article seems not to provide. Does he address those cultures that have had an historically, naturally gluten-free diet, versus substituting new gluten-free analogs for conventional wheat-based ones?

Also, the linked article suggests he claims the gluten-free product industry is based an a false premise, whereas I view its basis as a well-established valid premise: that industry will provide what consumers demand. Upon what valid premise does the food industry base production of donuts and soda?

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I have a study that refutes it. Me. Struggled to break 200 lbs while eating SAD halthy And running 50 miles a week. 165 after cutting out wheat. I was already low sugar, the baddest change was gluten and PUFA oils.

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Why do you need studies? Grains are neolithic, not part of our evolutionary diet, and therefore potential candidates for being agents of disease.

Paleo = eating the food that you evolved eating. Simples.

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This question is about gluten. If all you're concerned with is what is or isn't paleo, then wheat and rice would both be not paleo, supposedly not healthy, with no differentiation between the two. Yet people like Paul Jaminet contend that white rice can be fine in a nutreint rich diet, while wheat should be avoided. But why? They're both equally non-paleo, so what gives? Evolutionary theorizing has its place, but rarely does it eliminate the need for scientific studies. – Mscott Oct 13 at 3:33
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I don't dispute that their is a need for science, and I love Paul Jaminet, but I don't think that rice is Paleo, and I don't eat it. Nutritional science is so difficult to do, and so conflicted, that no-one ever really proves anything, which is why sometimes it's simpler to take a principals based approach, which is the beauty of Paleo: it's a very simple prescription. – borofergie Oct 13 at 3:47
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The modern production of grains most certainly is, but who is to say that there wasn't some consumption of grains from time to time in paleo times. Also there is a great variability in what people can tolerate, including gluten and lactose, suggesting that they have evolved to eating those..*Simples* – meta Oct 13 at 3:53
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@Mscott... I actually think this is its place. The studies are a bit behind pace right now. Much is yet to be discovered in the realm of gluten and GMO wheat products. Till things are further teased out through experimentation the "safe" money is to stick with evoloutionary theory (and the bits of data we actually do have). – JayJay Oct 13 at 4:10
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If someone provides a "nailed on study" (if there is ever such a thing) that demostrates "there is no benefit to a gluten free diet", do you start eating grains? – borofergie Oct 13 at 10:08
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So I know my judgement is skewed because I am celiac (& obviously gluten free!).

However, I know very FEW people without joint pain, acne, ADHD, skin issues, diarrhea, an autoimmune disease, diabetes, pre-diabetes, obesity, or another ailment.

There was an interesting quote about how most people don't know how good their body is designed to feel.

I can handle eating the other grains (like rice). However, when I eat them, I feel the sugar crash later in the day. Even if grains do not cause any autoimmune or other ailment directly from gluten, the negative effects on blood sugar are enough to deter me from eating them.

One holistic vet described her theory to me. She said that you should eat a diet rich in nutrients (meat, vegetables, healthy fats) and low sugar as a basis. Then, add in (Nutrient rich!) fruit and other unprocessed carbohydrate sources (potatoes, etc) to maintain your weight.

It makes sense to me, even if I weren't celiac.

Honestly, I do think Dr. Davis who wrote "Wheat Belly" gave some damn good information on this topic!

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Whether or not there is scientific evidence, there is a ton of anecdotal evidence. I know that eating more than a few bites of a gluten-heavy food, I have a lot of symptoms. With no/low gluten, the symptoms are gone. That's enough evidence for me.

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I haven't done any literature review, but keep in mind that studies have to be funded by someone.

Who would stand to gain if the hypothesis that there are benefits to going gluten free even if you are not celiac and don't have diagnosed gluten sensitivities? Only us, who time after time prove to ourselves that going gluten-free makes a huge difference in our lives. The trouble is, WE don't have a lot of money to fund studies.

Organizations like the American Diabetes Association and the American Heart Association do, but they get their funding from big pharma and big agra businesses who have a vested interest in NOT proving that there are benefits in going gluten free. The companies themselves are certainly NOT going to fund such studies.

And so, the lack of studies. All the anecdotal evidence in the world doesn't add up to a supposedly evidence-based, peer-reviewed study, at least as far as the big interests are concerned. And so, he may be technically correct in that no studies show that there is a benefit to going gluten-free, but we can see that there's a huge piece missing out of that puzzle.

As for the benefits of eating gluten containing products, it's certainly beneficial to Monsanto, Con Agra, drug manufacturers, etc.

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" no "published literature on the health benefits of gluten-free diets for people without celiac disease, gluten sensitivity or autoimmune disorders.""

This is just an illogical argument. A lack of evidence, in the absence of proper unbiased hypothesis testing, means absolutely nothing. Hed have to actually mention studies that showed there was no effect, in order for the claim to be in any way persuasive.

Worse, he talks about "for weight loss". I have never heard anyone claim avoiding gluten is good for weight loss. People avoid it for leaky gut, immune issues, inflammation, digestive issues etc, but not weight loss.

I have no idea where they are, but I have seen someone post research linking non-celiac intake of gluten to negative effects. Hopefully whoever it was can pipe, I cant be bothered scouring google scholar.

"Gaesser disclosed that he is the scientific advisory board chairman of the Grain Foods Foundation. As a longtime critic of anti-carbohydrate dieting, he was asked by the foundation to review the scientific literature associated with gluten-free dieting."

Open confession of total bias confounding any of his conclusions. No study this man does, on any of the mentioned topics, or any of the words coming out of his mouth likewise, should go without examination, replication, double blinding, personal critique, peer review, etc.

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Good points here. There a number of good sources discussing possible negative effects of non-celiac gluten intake, including Andrew Badenoch's collection of studies: evolvify.com/… – Mscott Oct 26 at 8:18
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I once read a study that said there was no evidence to support any benefit to working out.

Of course the "benefit" they were measuring was a persons ability to pat their head and rub their belly at the same time. I have to agree with the study that I didn't see any benefit to working out either. No matter how strong I got I still struggled with patting my head and rubbing my belly at the same time.

The devil is in the details, but it still will never trump N=1.

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This article states that going gluten free won't help to lose weight. It is the first time I hear that somebody excludes gluten for weight loss purposes.

I exclude gluten to avoid abdominal cramping, bloating and diarrhea. as this article puts it. Plus to avoid autoimmune conditions - topic that this article omits.

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