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People who follow the primal lifestyle clearly pay a lot of attention to food and health but they still eat dairy despite the fact that it has hormones that aren't good for us and raise insulin. What are their justifications for eating dairy?

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They usually drink grass-fed and/or organic and/or raw milk. – Soccertanker Oct 21 at 15:28
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marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz29x3AqHbH – Varelse Oct 21 at 16:24
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It might also be nice if you phrased the question to Primal eaters, since many of us post here, instead of being like "HAY PALEO GUYZ WUZ UP WIT DOSE PRIMAL WEIRDOS?" – Varelse Oct 21 at 16:33
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Dairy is correlated with lower BMI, and also all the things in marks daily apple above (lower diabetes, lower heart disease). Its a short chained fat too, so it probably boost metabolism like coconut oil. – Jamie Oct 22 at 0:22
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And of course, we are mammals. – Jamie Oct 22 at 0:23
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13 Answers

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Hmm, it is either healthy or not healthy depending on who you are and how your body handles it. It seems there is a lot of contradictory claims on the issue of hormones in milk affecting humans.

The way I see it dairy is loaded with nutrients, protein and vitamins, and is easy, and is delicious. Not everyone is aiming for 100 percent primal, but a feasible meal plan for daily life.

I personally am not too big on dairy. I choose occasional high fat yogurt or creme fraiche, small amounts of delicious cheese, and a dollop of organic cream for coffee one or two cups per day. (Organic cream-- oddly enough I chose it not so much because it's organic but because all the other creams have thickeners like carrageenan-- why? It's already thick.)

As well I think eating some dairy, within reason, makes giving up so many other foods more feasible, especially as a transition, and if you are feeding a household.

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My justification is that I like it, I do well on it as I have no casein/lactose issues, the issue of hormones is definitely up for debate, and insulin secretion is not necessarily a bad thing. Just like cortisol, we need insulin. Insulin resistance is a bad thing, but I certainly don't know of anyone who has given themselves T2D from dairy sugars.

Dairy isn't for everyone, but there is no food that is right for every single person.

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Because high-quality dairy is healthy. The same way that high-quality traditionally prepared (WAPF) grains are healthy.

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WAPF prepared grains are not healthy, they are just less poisonous... – JoshKrouse Oct 22 at 2:57
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Gluten is reduced by fermentation and so is phytic acid and depending on your method of cooking, they're also a source of probiotics. How, then, are WAPF prepared grains unhealthy? You've been sipping the Paleo kool-aid for too long. – BoneBrothFast Oct 22 at 3:44
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Reduction is not an elimination.. – JoshKrouse Oct 24 at 9:24
Besides as I stated in a comment below I'm a pretty avid raw milk drinker! – JoshKrouse Oct 24 at 9:25
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Josh, NO food on this planet is perfect. Even your precious grass-fed beef is exposed to environmental toxins because life does not exist in a vacuum. As someone with severe FODMAPs issues, I know for a fact (and you're 100% incorrect on this matter) that fermentation reduces both phytates and gluten to a negligible level. I've NEVER gotten any GI issues from WAPF grains. Not even a little. If I consume SAD grains, my body will let me know I screwed up a day later. – BoneBrothFast Oct 25 at 0:20
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Primal blueprint does not recommend dairy. It is, at best, in the gray area. Personally, I have 0 adverse reactions to dairy, and I have numerous positive benefits. Why wouldn't I continue to consume it?

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/#axzz29xJwDFMp

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It's not a question of belief, it's a question of fact and experience. Some people produce lactase in sufficient quantities to deal with lactose, so why shouldn't they eat dairy? Not a question of belief. Many might not technically produce enough but have no bad experience with dairy. Their experience therefore tells them it's OK to eat. Maybe the FACTS and EXPERIENCE of the benefits of dairy outweigh the negatives, and they aren't so dogmatic as to base what they eat on a theory rather than facts and experience.

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Butter and cheese from grass-fed dairy are good sources of K2.

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It's often fatty or fermented grass-fed dairy that have no/small amounts of the problematic lactose sugars or casein proteins, like cream, butter/ghee, cheese, yogurt.

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In reality, the diet of hunter-gatherers and the diet of pastoralists are largely the same. Many Primal Blueprint followers eat no dairy and some who do (like myself) eat only cheese or yogurt and never drink milk. I let the bacteria eat the indigestible stuff and leave me the tasty stuff. I think drinking milk is for babies and basing your diet on yogurt and smoothies is for sissies.

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there's nothing wrong with it. dairy can be very good for you. excuses are not necessary

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Beats me. I know this will offend some, but often what I read and hear sounds like justification for eating what you like. I am not telling anyone not to eat dairy; I simply don't get it.

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I see your point, but I wouldn't go that far. The addition of dairy, for those who have no lactose/casein problems, doesn't seem like justification for eating whatever you want. It's not like Primal adds in wheat or something. I see it kinda like the PHD on white rice - a grey area that some people can tolerate and some people can't. – Varelse Oct 21 at 16:37
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By "whatever you want" I was simply referring to the choice to include dairy, not any and all whatevers. It was probably a poor choice of words on my part. We don't always know what we can and cannot tolerate, though, until lots of damage has been done. – aseafish Oct 21 at 17:34
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I'm celiac. I've been tested for casein tolerance. I was in the clear - thank you, Scandinavian genes! Now that I've given up grain and legumes, why should I exclude a delicious food that I can periodically culture? It's not like I drink milk straight. And I am uncomfortable with the endless use of coconut milk from a can. That stuff takes a lot of fuel to get to me. The local raw dairy is maybe 20 miles away and I'm helping to preserve farmland and agriculture in my community. – syrahna Oct 21 at 18:23
@aseafish - it's a very valid concern, but there are all sorts of intolerances out there. We can't stop eating everything that people can possibly be intolerant to, regardless of symptoms. n=1 isn't the only factor that should be considered, but it shouldn't be discounted, either. – Varelse Oct 21 at 21:57
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Aseafish, your statement that "we don't always know what we can and cannot tolerate" only applies to people who haven't been tested for IgG+IgE food intolerances or are out of tune with their body. I'm not a diagnosed celiac, but I know I can't tolerate gluten. However, I eat a SHITLOAD of dairy and it hasn't given me any issues whatsoever. Even when I go out and eat unhealthy pasteurized dairy, I feel fine. But if I go out and eat commercial grains, I'll regret it the next day. – BoneBrothFast Oct 21 at 23:08
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Well dairy FAT provides a great source of real vitamin A and K2 without any issues with lactose or casein.

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I can tell you I think of myself as 100% Paleo despite eating raw organic dairy.. And by that I mean unpasteurized milk, I have yet to culture Kefir, or yogurt, but I will soon be ordering Kefir culturing grains (should be called granules because they're not anywhere like the grains your probably thinking of) soon. Until, I read, about milk, not pasteurized milk or dairy, because I avoid that stuff to no end, but real raw organic milk being unbeneficial then I'll stop drinking it.

But so far everything I've read even in paleo circles has to do with intolerances, of which I have no experience with. It seems to me that there is so little that has been studied in regards to raw milk that it needs to be further explored before it can be demonized like pasteurized milk products. I think the findings may surprise all of us in the paleosphere who as a collective whole have been known to discount all milk as being bad.

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A reason why there is a lot of negative talk about dairy is that many, many people are lactose intolerant. It is much more common than say nut or seafood allergies. Many, like myself, get stomach aches from milk. I can tolerate other forms of dairy with less lactose such as cheese and even cottage cheese. There are varying degrees of lactose intolerance. Some even have negative reactions to butter.

That being said, it is not ideal to base your diet around dairy. Animal meats are much better sources of you dietary needs, and they do not give nearly as many people digestive problems.

Personally, I eat the dairy that I can handle only occasionally. Sometimes I will have cottage cheese before bed on a day that I work out for its casein. Most of my protein and fat, however, come from animals.

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