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I am not interested in getting into a evolution vs creation argument here. What I am interested in is what the Bible and Jesus says about food, diet, and low carb eating. I think it says a lot and aligns very nicely to Paleo. What do you say?

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I am having a hard time restraining myself from leaving a comment that could result in a flame war. But I think this question is NOT appropriate for this forum. – JJ Dec 16 2010 at 15:13
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I am very non-religious and still found this discussion really interesting and thought provoking. – sherpamelissa Dec 16 2010 at 16:17
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Maybe I am being unfair in asking good Christian Paleos to look at their dietary choices with a skeptical empiricist's eyes. But for me, the difference between this forum and say, the vegan forum, is that we ask ourselves tough questions. Maybe leptin's more important than insulin. Maybe vitamin D is not a cure-all. Maybe lots of fish oil is not a good thing. And the reason we ask ourselves these questions is because we understand the scientific method. So to look to a holy book for dietary guidance strikes me as the kind of pseudoscientific bullshit that should be left off of this forum. – JJ Dec 16 2010 at 17:22
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Jae, I'm loving this rant. Please keep going! If we cannot safely rant against "sacred" pseudoscience, then we have lost the war against idiocy. – Kamal Dec 16 2010 at 18:48
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So can science (support anything I want it to support), if it's properly funded. ;) – gilliebean Dec 16 2010 at 21:48
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closed as off topic by Bread-Eating Beelzebub Mar 29 2011 at 18:34

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UPDATE: Those interested should go read Chris Masterjohn's post about this over at The Daily Lipid.

Kevin Brown over at Liberation Wellness provides an examination of the bible through the lens of food and health in this post. Here's a few key quotes:

[In] Gen 9:2-3,

And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth [upon] the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

God is now commanding all animals shall be food for man... The death and roasting of an animal should always remind us of the judgment of God, and our need of a Savior. Every time we eat meat therefore, it should remind us of our need of Christ.

[Then in] Gen 18:1,

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre...

We then continue in verse 7 and 8,

And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave [it] unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set [it] before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

God gives us a menu of what He eats personally so there is no mistaking it. He is eating butter (saturated animal fat), milk (raw, full animal fat, not refrigerated), and the calf. (Red meat, which is saturated animal fat).

As we read in Acts 10:11-14,

And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth… Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air, and there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean. And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, what God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.”

God repeats His message in the New Testament, telling Peter three times so there can be no mistake. Then God records it twice in the Bible. We have been therefore, divinely assured it is in accordance with God’s will to eat beef or pork, tuna or shark, insects or reptiles, birds of the air.

And finally, a comment on vegetarianism:

1 Tim 4:1-4,

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving, for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”

God states, in no uncertain terms, those who preach the abstaining of meats are preaching the doctrines of devils, speaking lies and hypocrisy.

He offers a recap at the end of the post. Here's some highlights:

  • Once Adam sinned, eating meat became the standard, as the death of animals’ points to our need for Christ

  • God uses Butter, Raw Milk, and Red Meat in the Bible and eats them personally to teach us that they are good, acceptable and healthy

  • Clean and Unclean dietary laws know as the ceremonial laws were given to the Children of Israel only for spiritual teaching, but the New Testament ushered in a new era of the gospel and the unclean laws were done away by God most definitely

  • All food is to be made clean by thanksgiving to God, each time we eat, we remember Him who faithfully feeds us

  • The removal of some of the key foods in the Bible, Butter, Raw Milk, Salt, Red Meat etc. [causes] physical damage to humanity...

Hope this helps!

P.S. David over at Health for Life wrote a piece on wheat and the bible that may be of interest as well.

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I think I'm going to print your answer off, laminate it and put it on my wall. Legendary. – CT Dec 16 2010 at 14:09
gilliebean, I usually love your posts but I can't let this one slide. There is a TON of junk in the article you quoted. Some of his interpretations really stretch the bounds of credulity. For example: – JJ Dec 16 2010 at 21:24
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Why not serve up a slice of Daniel 1:12-15? “Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. – JJ Dec 16 2010 at 21:31
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And here's verse 16: "So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead." So in Daniel, wine is bad and water is good. Oh, noes! This contradicts Brown's interpretation of 1 Timothy 5:23 and Gen 18 as teaching us that too much water = bad, and that fermented beverages are healthier. – JJ Dec 16 2010 at 21:37
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I feel like you can just cherry pick quotes to fit whatever argument you see fit...its been done numerous times with the bible. Don't boil a kid in its mother's milk is interpreted historically by jews to mean not to mix dairy and meat. I find this whole discussion of reconciling paleo with christianity a bit silly as paleo is based on evolutionary science. – Mike Dec 17 2010 at 1:14
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Good gracious people. Let's not be bitter! This IS relevant. A lot of Christian sects have fasting protocols, for example, that make following a paleo protocol difficult. And even those of us that aren't religious are likely to have family members who follow a religion and it's nice to be able to talk to them about this. Many clergy are ignorant of nutrition and it's often not helpful to consult them. For example, a priest told my aunt that the paleo diet is a morally decadent diet....way to miss the point.

What I told my grandparents is that the type of wheat and wheat products that are available today are completely different than what is mentioned in the Bible. The bread of Jesus was very coarse, fairly flat, and low in gluten.

The problem is that the Bible is pretty open to interpretation, so you can pretty much use it to support any dietary philosophy....

But I have to correct some of the bitterness here. In quoting Mosaic law to prove how ridiculous the Bible is, you are forgetting that Christianity teaches that Jesus fulfilled that law and you don't have to follow it anymore.

"But, Christians don't believe in evolution... or the paleolithic period... (In fact, they don't believe in the first half of the neolithic period either)."

Um, some Christians do. Not all Christians are literalists.

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+1! Well said, Melissa! – Ben Dec 17 2010 at 1:44
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I thought jesus came to 'reform the law, not to overturn it'. Anyway, guess that can go either way anyway. I think what a lot of people are referencing is the fact that a lot of the dietary recommendations of the bible come from the old testament. Anyway, I am far from a biblical scholar so I'll shut up. My point is that, I think questions of how to follow a paleo diet within self or religion imposed nutritional codes is perfectly valid and a great question to ask on this forum. – ecb Dec 17 2010 at 3:30
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It just seems strange to me, sort of irrelevant, to have qualms only with the theoretical aspects of the diet. I'll stop tip-toeing around my opinion: I think the bible is a verifiably poor source for information about the material world/physical structure of our universe/general science. I do think it is a tremendously rich source of other, maybe more important, wisdom (for lack of a better word). The paleo diet works because it is scientifically sound. It's like arguing whether to use a light bulb because you don't believe in electricity. It works and its useful... – ecb Dec 17 2010 at 3:34
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But yes, I agree with you: -no reason for bitterness -it definitely is not fair (and all too common) to lump all 'christians' together. First of all its an incredibly diverse faith, second of all this wouldn't fly with ANY OTHER religious group. – ecb Dec 17 2010 at 3:36
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What. With all the words spilled here it's clear some people need to start an atheist support group :) – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Dec 17 2010 at 4:53
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I'm a Christian and I eat Paleo. My body is a temple afterall.

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As a fellow believer, I have encountered this personal soul searching myself. What I discovered was basically, as believers and followers of Christ, we can eat anything. Not meaning that we should, but our options are many. Primal type diets are based upon science and are therefore documented and proven. This style of eating actually does agree with biblical ideology once you look beyond the "usual" bible passages. Furthermore, if you read this site, and other similar sites, personal testimonies from others, irregardless of their spiritual beliefs, support this WOE as most beneficial. Remember that the foods we have today were not the same as the foods that were found or raised during biblical times. Genetic modifications and agricultural changes have morphed them into something else. Don't get hung up on this "Ezekiel Bread" mentality. That whole passage has been misinterpreted. (For a good perspective on that read http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/ezekiel-said-what.html). Read the Bible and determine what to do yourself. My recommendation is to start with the Book of Acts and go through Paul's letters to the churches. Pray for guidance and most importantly, listen. Just my opinion. Blessings, Mike

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I'm a Christian. Whilst I try and have my faith flow through all areas of my life, I just don't see my diet selection as that big a deal in that regard. Fasting is something relevant to both Christianity and paleo though - so a nice fit.

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I don't mix nutrition with religion

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I'm a Christian and currently switching over to a Paleo way of eating. I am eating this way b/c it makes sense for me. I don't scrutinize every line in the Bible and try to glean the meaning I want from it. I think we were all given brains for a reason and the Bible is just a guide. A reference book, if you will. Read it, study it, and then remember that the world exists outside the Bible.

I don't think that what the Bible tells us indicates what our diets should be anymore than what clothing we should wear or what kind of car we should drive. The message I get from it is probably different from the message that you (or any other person) get from it.

The point is, if you are a Christian with a solid foundation of belief, your beliefs will differ from nearly every other Christian you meet b/c the Bible isn't the end-all, say-all. That's what your personal relationship with God is all about.

For me, my foundation of belief includes taking care of myself and being as healthy as I can be. That happens to include following a Paleo way of eating.

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Yes, I am. However, I hold my faith as dealing with existential realities. It and science are not by any means enemies. They ask different questions and are interested in different aspects of reality and experience. "What does it mean to be a person who is alive and in a predicament?" is different from "What are the mechanism that allow life to happen?" They can inform each other but only to a point.

Does paleolithic nutrition align with Christian spirituality? I really don't think that they inform each other much either way. As the paleo diet can help people feel better and experience reality in a more full, worthwhile manner, I can probably use it as a tool to fulfill some of the ethical 'duties' of a Christian. But that connection isn't especially captivating to me. True, yes, but not captivating. Oh and the pesky do I believe in evolution question? I don't care either way. I find it to be a beautiful, helpful and compelling heuristic.

The work of Walker Percy does a very beautiful job exploring the distinction between science and post-modern spirituality especially in his essay "A novel about the end of the world." Peter Rollins does some great philosophical work setting up Christianity in its proper philosophical frame work as a deconstructive anti-religion. GK Chesterton also does a nice job setup the non-sense framework of Christianity in A Generous Orthodoxy. The chapter "The Ethics of Elfland" is deserving of close attention.

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this is a really beautiful answer. I'll tip my hand, religion wise: I used to live in a zen monastery for a little bit of time (lay resident, not a monk). My teacher used to say: Science is the study of how things work, Religion is the study of what things are (i.e. fundamentally). I think this is a very useful distinction. – ecb Dec 17 2010 at 3:17
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There is nothing in the Bible that would oppose eating a Paleo Diet. Unlike some Eastern religions (in particular, Hinduism) the Bible is full of examples showing that all types of food can be eaten. The only particular dietary restrictions applies to certain days of the year, in which fasting may be prescribed. Nevertheless choosing a paleo diet should be based on a personal decision that you made, and the scientific evidence that supports it.

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I went to a Catholic school the other day to look into their grad programs. They had bagels, muffins, soda and candy to snack on. I go to a Buddhist temple to learn to meditate on Wed's, they have vegetables, nuts, seeds, rice and tofu to snack on. I agree that Eastern religion is still off when it comes to diet but at least in practice it seems much healthier than what is presented at church. (Im not religious so not bashing any religion). – Geoff Dec 21 2010 at 0:21
Buddhist are not even vegetarian, not necessarily ( monks are often vegetarian, but the follower does not need to be). Hinduism, on the other hand is strictly lacto-vegetarian. – Philosopher Dec 21 2010 at 1:46
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For the creationist types I just say god put grains on the earth for birds to eat. Adam and Eve never had a milling machine. They ate meat, fruits and vegetables. For the rest of us I describe it in terms of actual evolution.

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this argument is made in certain Jewish circles too, especially for celiacs who don't feel it is right to be bound my mitzvot (commandments) from later times that involve grain products. – Caleb the Hobbit Oct 2 2011 at 15:28
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I think the Bible is full of many ideas, restrictions, and commands.

Some of which support eating a certain way, and others which could be interpreted to forbid eating the same way.

http://www.logon.org/english/s/p015.html has an interesting analysis of the laws that appear in the food laws in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

I have no interest in eating as suggested in the Old Testament, New Testament, or any other book Holy to any religion. I eat as best I can to support my health and to respect the world that I live in.

I know that this discussion has lots of tinder in it to make for a great flamewar, but I'm hoping that we have enough respect for each other to keep it under control.


Yours in Practice and Respect,

Adam

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How curious, some would dismiss this thread as irrelevant. "Religion" is not some kind of feeble attempt at a type of science. It is neither opposed to nor in cahoots with science. Science seeks knowledge, understanding, completeness, and all the things that flow from them. Religion seeks, well, it's hard for me to even say what it seeks. I think we've moved beyond the Humean conception of religion as an incorrect projection of the human psyche onto an inexplicable natural order. I talk to a lot of people who hold that view, I wrestled with it for a time in my mind. Science works with matter. Religion works with the spirit. I don't know how else to say that without sounding even to myself, a bit flighty. The concept of spirit is amorphous and cheesy and it's easy to deny it because it cannot be verified, but in the end it's just one of those words that you have to use because it's the only one that works to describe something so amorphous and mysterious. If someone touts reasoning, logic, and evaluation of claims as the only way to reach correct knowledge and understanding...You are at liberty to operate in that mental realm. I do sometimes. As little as possible. There are other ways to think. Some people here need to have their minds blown, they are STUCK IN A BOX.

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heres why the relevance is questionable. This website is called paleohacks, and is based around a forum whose sole function is the discussion of methods and tactics for implementing the paleo-diet/lifestyle (and its variations). I think you raise really good points and valid questions--all of which I think are fascinating and worth asking. The question is, are they relevant to the basic goal of the site? I think thats where it gets murky. Further, I'm still not convinced why there needs to be any conflict between paleo and christianity at all. – ecb Dec 17 2010 at 3:21
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I came across this website when researching something totally unrelated a while back and thought it might be relevant to the discussion. While obviously nobody needs the Bible to tell them that PETA says and does a lot of dumb things (or even a website that may or may not of intentionally misspelled animal on the home page), I will say that for anyone who wants them, this guy has spent some time collecting Bible quotations about meat, hunting, and diet, which are easy to find even if you aren't interested in his perspective on them because he conveniently made them bold.

http://www.godeatsredmeat.com/index.html

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I'm not a Christian, but all I know of food in the religion is the Ezekiel bread, mentioning the grains and legumes supposedly endorsed in the Bible...not super paleo...

However, turning one fish into many would make an awesome paleo party trick...

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Ezekiel bread is supposed to be made with DUNG as a PUNISHMENT, yes, bread is punishment even in the bible. – Stephen-Aegis Dec 16 2010 at 12:27
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+1 to Stephen-Aegis Agriculture is a punishment. Man was forced to farm as a result of the fall. – Ben Dec 16 2010 at 14:34
@Ben: arguably, the early bits of Genesis are all about the transition from foraging to farming; being cast out of Eden, being forced to live by the sweat of the brow, Eve's curse, Cain & Abel... – Fearsclave Dec 18 2010 at 17:26
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As a Christian and paleo enthusiast I am troubled by the presence of bread in the sacrament. I realize that the bread Christ ate was different, but how do we reconcile the problem of grains with the bread of communion?

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What do they do for celiacs? Is there a gluten-free choice? Oooh, just found this link: foodallergies.about.com/od/wheatallergies/f/… – Dave S. Dec 16 2010 at 15:26
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My Catholic Church offers a gluten free host...just ask as it is not advertised very well. – Ian G Dec 16 2010 at 15:47
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Second that as a Catholic, there is gluten free host but you do need to ask in advance and know who, Priest or Eucharistic minister, will have it available. As for being troubled by the presence of bread, you always have to remember the historical audience. This was a blood sacrifice that was understood by the Jewish audience, how would that audience have reacted if the shared item had been meat. As it was explained to me, the Bible was written in certain places and times for a level of understanding of the universe that was present. Sometimes parables, allegories, types are necessary. – TexasPrimalSurfWahine -TPSW- Dec 16 2010 at 18:37
would a little communion wafer ONE day a week really even hurt? – ecb Dec 17 2010 at 3:27
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Simple, really. Bread was the staple food at the time and place of the Last Supper. If it had happened in Asia, the Eucharist would involve rice and rice wine. If it had happened in the late Paleolithic, perhaps it would have involved mammoth jerky and hallucinogenic mushroom juice or whatever other form of intoxicasnt was popular at the time. The important thing, I think, is the participation in the ritual. And a little bread won't kill you and we're not Vegans. – Fearsclave Dec 18 2010 at 17:23
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perhaps you could expand...

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The whole point of "eating paleo" is to eat foods that were around in the paleolithic period, a period of time which Christians believe didn't exist (god put the fossils in the ground to test your faith - remember?)

The reason to eat paleo is that you believe that eating the foods that were available to humans for the millions of years during which humans evolved is more likely to lead to good health than eating the foods that humans produced in the last 10,000 years.

But, Christians don't believe in evolution... or the paleolithic period... (In fact, they don't believe in the first half of the neolithic period either). Oh my.

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Hey Jay! Thanks for the generlization that all Christians don't believe the paleolithic period existed. I love it when someone tells others what they believe "(In fact, you don't believe in the first half of the neolithic period either)". Not to mention that the "whole point of eating paleo" is to be healthy and to live optimally with this body you either believe evolved or was created. – Ben Dec 16 2010 at 16:17
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It's not my fault that your religion makes verifiably false claims – Jay Dec 16 2010 at 16:27
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I personally do not eat Paleo because "I believe that eating the foods that were available to humans for the millions of years during which humans evolved is more likely to lead to good health than eating the foods that humans produced in the last 10,000 years" I eat Paleo because I believe the science behind the digestion issues with insulin and how they affect my body. And it makes me feel better and look better. – sherpamelissa Dec 16 2010 at 16:32
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Jay- you cannot win arguments with Christian people. You only have logic and science, whereas they have a plethora of irrational but established tools at their disposal. That being said, I will upvote your answer as a sign of solidarity. – Kamal Dec 16 2010 at 19:02
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Jay, you are clearly out of line when you suggest that all Christians "don't believe in evolution" or believe in talking snakes and the like. No religion or culture is monolithic. It's all to easy to ridicule people when you lump them into labels based on their most ridiculous members. Hell, some Paleos believe that chicken breast and canola oil are great but short ribs and sweet potatoes are bad. Please don't resort to strawman arguments. We don't need them. – JJ Dec 16 2010 at 19:49
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Well the bible forbids us eating pork ( aka Bacon ) as its an unclean food - where does that leave us all???? LOL

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Im not religious but the Bible does NOT forbid eating pork. The Torah and the Koran do. Mark 7:18 (NIV) "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? - Jesus – Geoff Dec 21 2010 at 0:18
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Yes, I am a Christian and Paleo and it is not the oxymoron that it seems. Though I battled over this issue for years, through a raw foodist and vegeterian stint, once I stop being ethnocentric I realize that:

A. The Bible was written by Jews for Jews. Therefore, their understanding of the world, creation, and food were very different than ours. ex. Creation from nothing may be a 21st century way of thinking. Most religions around the time thought of creation in functional terms instead of material-from-nothing terms. The god(s) made the world functional from a non-functional, chaotic state. (Interested Christians read this book.)

B. Taking this written-by-Jews-for-Jews book out of its original context in terms of dietary laws/advice is not only anachronistic but inapplicable to our current times. God worked within their current system of understanding to reveal himself... he stooped to their level. Yes, fasting is helpful and relevant for anyone's spiritual views and physiological systems, but to say we should eat bread because the people of the Bible ate bread and had recipes for bread takes it out of context and makes the text say something it never meant to say.

C. Brains are there for a reason. I have the privilege to look at science and all of the insightful evidence it presents, so I see that grains and neolithic foods are harmful. Since I have the choice and the means to eat a high quality Paleo diet that works wonders for my body, I will do so.

Paleo enhances my spiritual life through its many benefits. I now appreciate the life and death every animal sacrifices to give me life since I've learned to clean and process my meat. It's a beautiful thing.

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Well I must say that for all the people who question whether or not this question is 'relevant', I think it's pretty telling that this question has generated an impressive response of answers and sub commentary. If a zillion people are highly interested in it and desire to discuss it, then the question commands its own relevancy in that context alone.

I think it's monumentally important to point out that there (obviously) is a significant number of folk on PaleoHacks that claim to be Christian. I'm sorry if this ruffles feathers but chew on this thought for a bit....

The "Christians" commenting here seem to be ok with the conversion, and want to mesh with this community peacefully, even though some of the thinking behind the "Paleo" idea might disagree with their core beliefs. This means they are willing to objectively look at other aspects and consider the whole and not throw the baby out with the bath water. You might call this hypocritical or a "Christian in hiding" or whatever you want, but I call major hogwash on such a generalized declaration. Seems to me, by reading the commentaries, that the folks who got most upset by this comment are non-Christians who become almost offended by it. I can completely understand how a person claiming to be a Christian specifically attacking the validity of the core beliefs of Paleolitic times might be out of line, but that's a whole different approach.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this question. The OP clearly stated his intention, and even clarified that he believed the 2 worlds can happily mesh together, indicating an intention exactly opposite of what some commenters immediately called blame on him for.

My take...

Can people who call themselves Christians also intentionally eat "Paleo" style?

Of course. Food is food, not a religion. Nobody on earth is currently living in either Bible times or Paleolithic times, so we are all forced to co-exist by default and both camps have people who are seeking the healthiest foods of our time. Eating eggs and the fat of ruminant animals does not contradict with the Bible in any way.

Why do people struggle with the idea of combining Paleo diet and Christianity?

Because many people believe that they contradict each other. But this notion stems more from the human evolutionary side of the Paleolithic era and people interpret the timeframes of the Bible and the passages that speak of food in different ways.

In fact, the Bible teaches, in the Old Testament, that God wanted a sacrifice to be a healthy, fatty animal. He specifically commands NOT to eat the fat part of the animal before the sacrifice. Why? Because God condemns eating fat? One could take this command in this way. But it's the exact opposite actually. He wants a true and valuable sacrifice. Get it? The best part.

Things are not always cut and dry folks. No need to spit flames at one another or become highly offended just because someone believes one thing that doesn't exactly line up with what you believe.

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