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I've come to view excess body fat as a kind of female secondary sex characteristic these days that certainly doesn't do much to enhance the manliness of those males in possession of it. I encounter a lot of overweight or obese males who seem to view their girth as being mostly muscle, but it's solely the result of sweets, sweetened beverages, breads and other foods that seem to be more in what I at least associate with the female realm. You can't really get fat from gnawing on carcasses and other manly eating practices.

Furthermore, the excess fat enhances the extent to which testosterone is aromatized into estrogen, making these men more feminine from an endocrine standpoint.

Maybe this an angle that could be used to point the uninitiated in the right direction....

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 Isn't the view that "excess body fat is a female secondary sex characteristic these days" insulting to women? – David Leitner Jan 6 2011 at 3:09
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 @TravisCulp -- yes, agreed. @DavidLeitner -- no, that is silly. – Patrik♦ Jan 6 2011 at 6:14
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 It is insulting to suggest that excess fat is considered a female trait. Females have more body fat than men, but when it's an excessive amount, it's unattractive regardless of sex. Perhaps "weak" would be a better adjective than "feminine." – Ali Jan 6 2011 at 13:50
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 @Ali -- that is simply semantics -- Travis meant "more". – Patrik♦ Jan 7 2011 at 0:17
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 i don't see this as offensive. travis may have worded his point a bit oddly, but i don't believe he meant it offensively. i agree with the basic idea here. some guys have man boobs. some things i've read indicate an over consumption of soy in that case. but although some women are very toned ad muscular, most have the natural ability to be very fit and yet still have the shapely curvy figure that many men go gaga for. in my opinion, men should be fit and muscular, and women should be fit with soft and visually appealing curves. – Jack Kronk Feb 17 2011 at 21:16
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14 Answers

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A curvy woman is sometimes pretty sexy. Body fat in certain places for woman is a marker of health and fertility. In women, fat on the breasts, hips, butt, and thighs is associated with healthier babies and better health outcomes in general. The "evolutionary" ideal women of course might not be as curvy as Holloway here, but she would not be a stick figure. She would have ample breasts, a "big butt," but a flat distinct waste. I see waaay too many women who are either waifs or have an apple shape without a waist. The last picture here is a hunter-gatherer woman displaying Steatopygia, a genetic disposition towards curviness that was sexually selected for in some tribes. Some anthropologists think that many paleolithic women might have had this based on art like that shown below.

alt text alt text alt text

Body fat is never a marker of health and fertility in men. I've seen some hunter-gatherer men with round tummies from bloating, probably caused by parasites or high fiber intake.

This is an evolutionary psychology position that I think is fairly well accepted.

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 + Positive feedback for showing that "Mad Men" woman. – wjones3044 Jan 6 2011 at 4:26
Gotta dig up that waist hip ratio article I read.... – Stephen-Aegis Jan 6 2011 at 20:23
Man, that is one fat ass! :P – Jamie Jul 14 at 5:43
It's true that breast - waist - hip ratio is a standard feature of attraction to women. But human sexuality is also highly psychological and cultural, its not all physical or biological. These days, as some men like thinner women, some men like curvy women. I personally like both. But theres still a preference for proportion amongst men, especially in the hips regardless. I think the body composition aims of women, are a little out from what men actually want generally. – Jamie Jul 14 at 5:50
So that's another purpose of a big booty. To stand on! – primallykosher Oct 3 at 20:10
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Frankly I think excess body fat is not nice, either for men or women. In that sense I do not "discriminate" fat based on the sex of whoever carries it!

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 agreed! Does that mean I'm "manly" because I love to eat meat? I am a strong warrior woman, but I would not consider myself masculine. but I think I what you're trying to say...a man with a potbelly makes him look like he's preggers. – THATgirl Jan 6 2011 at 1:41
I think !Kung women, for example, are routinely 20-something% BF, but hunter-gatherer males would have almost never been up that high. 20-something% BF for a male is ridiculously common and most at that level these days could still be considered "skinny." – Travis Culp♦ Jan 6 2011 at 1:44
It is well known that women, specially after pregnancies have larger fat% than men. Nevertheless an active life on a paleo diet will greatly reduce bf for both women and men. – Philosopher Jan 6 2011 at 1:52
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If overweight men look more feminine to you it's probably because women naturally carry more body fat.

If you're thinking about it with regard to sweets, you need to start taking commercials less seriously. Guys eat sweets too. When you mention sugary drinks... honestly I associate women more with diet drinks. Whether that's actually true or not, I don't know, but I don't associate sugary drinks with women so much as with men, kids, and teenagers. And breads I associate with pretty much everything.

Paleo diets are already "marketed" to men as being "manly." I honestly think that's a stereotype and it's not going to do very well in the long run by feminizing overweight men.

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Im an ectomorph but..

Worlds strongest man last two years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDydr%C5%ABnas_Savickas

UFC Heavyweight Champion (Cain) http://www.fiveknuckles.com/assets/images/fighters/Velasquez2.jpg

IMO, and the option of many the best fighter to have ever lived (Fedor) http://www.fightmusic360.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/fedor.jpg

Ive noticed that at least in the fight and strength game the most "cut" guys are often not the best. Cain, Fedor, Shogun, BJ Penn and even Anderson Silva look far from a magazine cover model but they all are considered some of the best fighters alive. There are outliers like GSP or Pudzianowski but overall Id say the old sang of "cant judge a book by its cover" rings true.

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The last two are acceptable looking. They aren't cut, but don't have potbellies either. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Jan 6 2011 at 12:50
Great point on Savickas. That man is a monster; his lifts blow almost all his competition out of the water. I don't think I'd call his look feminine. But we're talking eye of the beholder here right? – ben61820 Jan 6 2011 at 19:00
Your points are well taken; Fedor is my favorite MMA guy. On the other hand, if all of the above guys didn't eat grain, they would be far leaner, right? – Travis Culp♦ Jan 6 2011 at 19:35
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 Probably but I also think some fat seems to give you more energy to work with during a 25 minute title match. It could be that OR it could be that to get to an elite level you have to work your body harder then is healthy and excess body fat could be one of the ramifications. I know that some people say when they cut back exercise from 6 hard days a week to maybe 3-4 days they actually get leaner – Geoff Jan 6 2011 at 21:28
I don't really think these examples are relevant, obviously these people are exceptions and not the "norm". First, most likely they are probably much higher in testosterone than the normal male. Second, it's likely that they are taking supplements that artificially raise their testosterone. Third, they are athletes which the average overweight male is not so therefore their body shape is going to be different. Despite what they think the normal overweight male does not look like the examples above. – kurtis Jul 13 at 16:55
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(personal opinion time) I'd rather abandon parts of the masculine/feminine scale for movement and fitness.

My impressions of fitness often come from body-composition, but are always adjusted by how someone moves.

If you can move with grace and strength, that contributes to my impression of health more than almost anything else.

This does make it a bit harder to get that information from stationary graphics, but that is only one reason why Real Life is better for most everything.

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Yes, in general I agree. (Obviously there are exceptions.) It's not a slam against females, it's that overweight nonathletic males tend to get things like breasts and etc.

This appears to be even more true with the younger generation of males. Many of the overweight older males that I know are in jobs that require physical activity and most younger peoples jobs are not. (The older overweight males that I know are not extremely overweight except for the beer belly.) I can't help but wonder if it's a combination of increased estrogen intake/exposure/pollution (soy & plastics) and a decrease in testosterone enhancing activities.

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Yes Op overweight men carry more estrogen and are in fact more womanly. I LOL at the fat guys who think they are muscular.. they are just deluding themselves from teh fact that they are greater than 20% bf

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excess body fat on males makes their silouette look more feminine excess body fat on females makes their silouette look more masculine

they end up looking the same.

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Beer guts are very masculine.

Attractive? No. Healty? No. A masculine characteristic? Yes.

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 It is possible to be barrel chested, but being 225 lbs and 5'7" goes beyond that. It starts above as a barrel, and ends below as a shed over the tools. – thhq Jul 13 at 19:24
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On July 4th we were at a lacrosse game and an individual sat down a couple of rows in front of us. Medium-long hair, fairly seriously overweight, and a pair of breasts that certainly put mine to shame. I had to poll my family, but the consensus was that it was a male. Definitely not masculine. Yecch.

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Probably a soy-enriched vegan. – thhq Jul 13 at 19:20
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Your arguments pertaining to feminine and masculine eating habits and appearance are completely and utterly circular. I laud your rather innocent bigotry and do agree with you on the personal view that excess body fat on men make them appear more feminized.

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Firstly, let me say that I am so surprised this did not get closed.

Secondly, I agree with what you are saying.

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I remember feeling that I looked androgynous before taking control of my health. I am pretty sure that excess body fat affects testosterone production, also.

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"Effete" or "feminine" is only an insult in the context of a man, qua man, as Aristotle might say.

Just as saying a female is "butch" or "masculine" is an insult to woman qua woman.

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Yes, the gender binary lives on in manay arenas unfortunately... – Michael Jan 24 at 10:55

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