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Hey all -

I recently got some labs done. In April 2010 my Cholesterol was

Total 226 - HDL 103, LDL 117

Just this past week, my results came back

Total 273 - HDL 99, LDL 174

Any cause for concern there?

I am 28yrs old, Male, very athletic. Lacto-Paleo, although this last 10 days have been dairy free as part of an elimination test. Generally between VLC and LC. Energy for the most part is high, occasional low energy days here and there. Supplement with occasional Vit D, occasional fish oil, Vit K, Potassium, Magnesium. I eat a lot of tinned Sardines. All my Meats are Pastured. Most dairy that is consumed is raw, pastured. When I do eat veggies, its spinach, kale, chard, onions, garlic, pickles, jicama, sauerkraut. Sometimes I re-feed with a russet or sweet potato after an intense workout but not always.

Not sure if this is relevant, but I had an elevated liver enzyme (doesn't specify which) and my Compliment level C3 was and has been low. I also had a high titer for Lupus / rheumatoid but has since gone down. In the past year, I have had a low white blood cell count, low red, and enlarged red. Been to Oncology, Rheumatoligy (sp?) and they cannot pinpoint anything.

Thoughts, suggestions? Im not too good on the scientific part of this whole thing yet, so just looking for any info.

EDIT - I'm not sure about the Triglycerides. I will get that tested. What should I be looking for regarding that? Also, What exactly is the VAP test? and what does it show?

EDIT #2 - Ok so I was able to secure complete test results. Also, for reference I got my lab results from Pre-Paleo days.


Jan 2010 - Pre Paleo, Complete SAD offender.

  • Cholesterol - Not taken ?
  • Urea Nitrogen (Bun) - 26
  • Glucose - 84
  • Creatine - 1.20
  • Sodium - 138
  • Potassium - 4.1
  • Calcium - 10.0
  • Protein, Total 7.3
  • TSH - 2.24

April 2010 - about one month in - More Primal / Sisson emphasis

  • Cholesterol, Total - 226
  • HDL - 103
  • Triglycerides - 32
  • LDL - 117
  • Chol/HDLC Ratio - 2.2

Sept 2010 - More Panu / Hyperlipid emphasis

  • Urea Nitrogen (Bun) - 21
  • Glucose - 92
  • Creatine - 1.09
  • Sodium - 136
  • Potassium - 4.8
  • Calcium - 10.1
  • Protein, Total 7.0
  • TSH - 1.25
  • B12 - 551

Jan 2011 - More Panu / Hyperlipid emphasis

  • Cholesterol, Total - 279
  • HDL - 99
  • Triglycerides - 32
  • LDL - 174
  • Chol/HDLC Ratio - 2.8
  • Urea Nitrogen (Bun) - 29
  • Glucose - 88
  • Creatine - 1.22
  • Sodium - 137
  • Potassium - 4.4
  • Calcium - 9.5
  • Protein, Total 7.0
  • TSH - 2.41

May 2011 -

  • Sum Total Cholesterol - 346
  • Total LDL-C - 242
  • Total HDL-C - 90
  • Total VLDL-C - 14
  • Trigs - 35
  • Total Non-HDL-C - 256
  • Total APOB100 Calc - 151
  • LP(a) - 23
  • IDL-C - 13
  • Real-LDL-C - 206
  • Sum Total LDL-C - 242
  • Real-LDL Size Pattern - A
  • Remnant Lipo - 21
  • HDL-2 - 28
  • HDL-3 - 62
  • VLDL-3 - 8

  • Homocysteine, Cardiovascular - 9.1

  • Vit D, 25OH - 47
  • Magnesium - 2.0
  • Protein, Total - 6.9
  • Albumin - 4.8
  • Globulin - 2.1
  • Albumin/Globulin Ratio - 2.3
  • AST - 25
  • ALT - 19
  • Testosterone, Total - 499
  • Testosterone, Free - 45.9
  • C-Reactive Protein - <0.10
  • Cortisol, Total - 14.4
  • Insulin - <2

I'm not gonna lie, the trend of escalating LDL and decreasing HDL does have me a little concerned. Also, The D seems low as does testosterone, and cortisol seems high (but this is just based on the ranges they give). I don't supplement anything other than FCLO, but only 1/2 tsp per day. I have a hard time putting the pieces together based on labs, so I'm hoping people who do "get it" can let me know if anything stands out.

Food Intake -

I tend to not eat breakfast, unless hungry. If I eat breakfast it is eggs, cooked in Pasture butter, Ghee, or Coconut oil, in that order. All my meat I order from a farm, all 100% Pastured. Most meat is ground beef. I try to mix in as much lamb as I can, when available. 1 lb Bacon a week (Pastured), 1/4 lb beef liver every 2-3 days. On Workout Days I have leaner meat, either Mahi Mahi or Ahi. I eat about 2-3 cans of sardines a week. As an appetizer before dinner, I always make a couple "sushi rolls" out of Nori stirps with whatever Im cooking for Iodine. 1-2 times a week I eat smoked oysters. Lindt's Dark chocolate 90% almost daily, about 4 squares. On any days I play soccer or workout I have a large russet or Purple Sweet Potato. In the past 3 weeks, I have been adding another one to test how much I can eat without adding body fat. Fruit is maybe once every 2 weeks and it consists of a handful of berries from the local farmers market.

Thanks a bunch

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I'm almost certain that you should have gotten triglycerides done alongside the testing you got done. You might call and make sure that there aren't also triglyceride numbers in there for you. – Kirik Jenness Feb 2 2011 at 0:57
I will look once I get the documentation. I had the results read to me over the phone. – Todd Feb 2 2011 at 1:09
How long have you been lactopaleo? What was your diet like two years ago? – Eric S Feb 2 2011 at 2:13
Been Lacto-Paleo almost a year. Before that it was as SAD as you could get – Todd Feb 2 2011 at 7:30
Since the triclycerides/HDL ratio is a good indicator of particle size, I wouldn't necessarily worry about getting a VAP. As long as trigs are low, there isn't anything to be concerned about. – Ambimorph Feb 2 2011 at 15:07
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11 Answers

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What about triglycerides? With your exceptional HDL and presumably low TGs, you have a strong inverse correlation with mortality. If you're concerned about your LDL, get a VAP test and you'll almost certainly have mostly large, buoyant LDL predominating.

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What Travis said. – Deb Feb 2 2011 at 1:43
i probably should have read your's first Travis. You and I think alike and you say things more to the point. – MikeD Feb 2 2011 at 13:15
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What do your triglycerides look like? I think they are a better indicator of problems than just HDL/LDL.

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Agreed. At the same time, there is a trend of rising LDL with the information given, so in the absence of more information I don't want to tell Todd to just totally blow it off. No reason for concern, of course, but more evidence/follow up might be called for, imo. – Kirik Jenness Feb 2 2011 at 0:49
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I don't think any of this is really a concern until you get more info.

In addition to triglycerides which are the most useful, you might want to get a look at LDL particle size. Paleo--and meat eating in general--can increase LDL. But in absence of massice amounts of carbohydrate all the LDL will be a big fluffy type which is similar to HDL in terms of being good for you.

If you have low Triglycerides and get a LDL size breakdown and you have very few 'small' LDL, you are probably in great shape.

The science of cholesterol has changed so much that HDL,LDL and total are somewhat useless numbers at this point for determining health.

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Moreover, low triclycerides and high HDL predicts good particle size. – Ambimorph Feb 2 2011 at 15:08
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I wouldn't be alarmed in the least bit. My doctor is an idiot as well. I decreased TC by 17%, TGs by 31%, LDL by 23% and increased HDL by 22% in two months and she still wants to put me on medication. I don't even return her calls. Our medical establishment is a bad joke, my friend. I'm not sure if these doctors even take a nutrition class in school. I bet they take plenty of "how to capitalize on pharmaceutical dispensing" courses though. LDL taken out of context is probably the poorest indicator of health of anything on the panel.

Post a typical day's worth of food between your last two cholesterol tests.

My guess is that your myristic/palmitic acid intake is still fairly high. Try shifting your fat intake to ruminant tallow.

To address the catabolism/cortisol issue, I would increase carbohydrates to 150g per day minimum. That would then likely increase testosterone assuming you don't have a marginal Zn, Cu or Se status and that you continue to eat a fair amount of quality saturated fat.

Edit: So how much butter did you eat per day in the last few months? When you eat a potato or sweet potato do you put tons of butter in it like I did? How many grams of carbs per day would you say? If you didn't really eat that much butter or coconut oil, I'd say that it might be a lack of starch as Jaminet was suggesting. Maybe that's what caused the big change for me.

To be clear, I'm not certain in the least bit that really high LDL matters, but assuming that you'd like to play it safe and have it around 200-something, you could just eat a tuber with every meal like I do and cut out all butter and see how it goes. I would estimate that I'll be back within that range in 3-6 months.

As a whole, your diet looks excellent and will produce far better overall health and longevity than anything your doctor would have you eat, if they even mentioned diet. Shouldn't have to worry about missing out on any micros.

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Added the food edit above, for your reference. Thanks for the help, Travis. – Todd May 11 2011 at 17:57
I would eat a large amount of raw, cultured butter - about 1/3 lb, and raw cream - 4-6 oz, at night to up my calories. Often mixed together as a "dessert" with cinnamon. I'd do this 3-4 times a week. Carbs in the form of sweet potato or russet, about 12oz on non rest days, but now I'm closer to 16oz. On rest days, I just upped my veggie intake a tad, but not much. My veggie intake consists garlic, onion, shitake mushrooms, diced and cooked with my meat of choice. Once in a while couple small carrots, or cucumber. – Todd May 11 2011 at 18:22
I'd say that's definitely enough dairy fat to produce the results on your lipid profile. Additionally, I'd say you are undershooting quite a bit on carbs. 16oz of sweet potato is something like 68 grams of carbs. You should be eating double that on a rest day and 3-4x that on a workout day. – Travis Culp May 11 2011 at 18:45
Oops. I had 16oz at around 100g of carbs (based on a couple nutrition calculators) It seems need to up that a bit. I want to add rice as well, but not sure what kind or how to best prepare. Are you of the opinion that, for a active person with a normal metabolism, it matters how many carbs per meal, with respect to blood sugar? Lastly, I remember you take a few supplements, C, Zinc, Selenium? What brands have you found to be preferrential? Ideally little to no fillers, etc? I find it difficult to find quality ones, which is why I have been avoiding. – Todd May 11 2011 at 19:32
forgot, Vit D... – Todd May 11 2011 at 19:34
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Any cause for concern?

Let's not elevate it to CONCERN, but let's be real here: you might have something that, as you get older, bears watching. Continue to seek and don't panic by any means. You're 28, which means that you're at a ridiculously low risk for any cardiac issue.

Keep looking and seeking. You have shown that you're not afraid to tinker and test with your diet, so keep doing that.

Best wishes.

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I'm getting very suspicious of supplementation with fish oil and Vit D. I know this runs counter to what the big names in the paleo community say, but my LDL cholesterol jumped from 114 to 240, and the major changes were 5:

  • High fat
  • Low carb
  • Vit D supplementation
  • Fish oil supplementation
  • Age

Of course there might be other reasons for the rise in my LDL cholesterol, but I decided to stop taking fish oil supplements (and get O3 from real fish), to ditch the Vit D, and to take another test soon.

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Look up Dr. Harris' PaNu blog. He's not exactly head-over-heels about fish oil supplementation. Just an fyi. – Kirik Jenness Feb 2 2011 at 1:14
How long did it take for that number to jump? – Todd Feb 2 2011 at 1:22
Thanks Kirik. @Todd: first test in 2008, second in 2010. – Paola Feb 2 2011 at 1:30
Fish oil supplementation is unnecessary if you're getting your fat from good non-omega6 sources. All of my fat is coming from clarified butter and grass fed lamb with some occasional fish thrown in, so I don't take any fish oil at all. Vitamin D is crucial, but make sure you're getting enough vitamin A and K2 to prevent calcium issues. I eat so much butter that I'm certain I get tons of mk-4 K2, but I eat 50g of natto every day for the 500mcg of mk-7 k2 and take about 150mcg of mk-7 k2. K2 has a remarkably low toxicity, so it's much better to overshoot than undershoot. – Travis Culp Feb 2 2011 at 19:22
Travis - you eat your natto straight up or mixed in with something else? When at a sushi bar I get it mixed with some tuna chunks, shredded radish and quail egg. But I haven't picked it up to eat at home yet since I'm not sure how to make a quick snack out of it without using rice. – JoeBranca at paleoplusone.com Feb 15 2011 at 21:01
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I'd keep a cautious watch and see how things proceed. SOme doctors have noted initial higher cholesterol readings after beginning paleo, but then those numbers later go back down. Also, there can be quite a bit of natural variation in cholesterol readings between one day and the next and also quite a bit of variation between lab testings. I too am still not sold on fish oil pill supplements, but occasional modest use probably is not a big deal either way.

THis one is tricky. There have been other weird symptoms and by the description of the situation, I am not sure if they were present before paleo or only came to pass after paleo. So it's hard for me to say much in that regard. However, if triglycerides are not high, and/or if there is correlation in the timing of the probs with paleo, one option might be to try a bit more healthy carb, especially if the person is not overweight and/or is a heavy exerciser. Paleo is often lower carb than SAD but it is not a requirement for it to be very low carb. SOme paleo eaters find that regular consumption of healthy starches and a moderate amount of fruit help them feel at their best.

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Cholesterol Is not a parameter that is significantly worth worrying about. Scientific evidence does not support C as the cause of anything to have angst over. It is right there in the 'over blown - hyped' column.

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Hey, don't worry at all! Maybe you have a hidden inflammation. Did you check your c-reactive protein? Anyway, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv2Z3UWYJKk&feature=related

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Many have asked about the VAP Cholesterol Test and its value in this forum. I encourage you to see patient cases and sample VAP Test lab reports on Dr. Michael Cobble's lipid discussion at http://www.cobblescorner.com. The post "Marathon Man" might be of interest to those with the paleo lifestyle.

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Hate to make this belated observation but your Lp(a) is high. It's a genetic factor that cannot be addressed by diet or medication, unfortunately. But you should still do something about it. Google Dr. Sinatra and see if his steps for lowering LP(a) makes sense. People claim to have lowered Lp(a) using his method. You should lower that to under 8, if possible. Do you have a family history of CVD on either side of the family tree? Your rise in TC also could be that you're ApoEE.

Now the other possible issue is your kidneys. Your BUN and Creatinine are high for a 28 year old guy. I dont think that's because you're overding protein; you seem to be eating enough carbs. Were u tested for Lupus, Lupus Nephritis? Did your rheumy check for ANA and antibody tests for various connective tissue related diseases? If you're positive for RA, then it's best to avoid dairy, even raw dairy, and all nighshades.

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Low WBCs are a classic sign of connective issue autoimmune diseases: they're about 1/3 lower in such people from the mid-nromal. – Namby Pamby Oct 25 2011 at 21:19
Since your Lpa is high, fish oil could be important. Ah, but you could also be ApoEE. – Namby Pamby Oct 25 2011 at 21:33
Actually, falase alarm regarding Lp(a); now I see that u never had your VAP done. Still a bit high but not enough to suggest genetic risk. ApoEE still may be the case. – Namby Pamby Oct 25 2011 at 22:45
What is ApoEE?? – Todd Oct 27 2011 at 23:00
Also, thank you for the answer and suggestions :) – Todd Oct 27 2011 at 23:01
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