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I'm getting the distinct impression that the weight loss results on a paleo diet are much more consistent for men than they are for women. For the other paleo ladies out there, what has been your experience? If merely restricting your diet to paleo-approved foods alone did not seem to help in weight loss, what further modifications worked for you? Did the diet just not work initially, or was it working, but then it stalled?

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Great post: I've made the same observation, and supporting anecdotal evidence is all over the paleo-sphere. This is a topic that deserves systematic, technical treatment. It's a shame that (to my knowledge) all of the leading paleo voices with relevant technical backgrounds are all males. Thanks again for the post! – Eric S Jun 30 2011 at 1:51
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Have you had any improvements in the last year on your journey? – mzrdnan Apr 16 2012 at 11:51
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Did you glean any useful info from this survey? Would you be willing to offer tips from your research? – ladyp Apr 24 2012 at 2:46
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40 Answers

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Cutting out plant fats and starch for a while works really well for me, as well as fasted walks in the early morning.

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Do you really want all your fat gone? My husband has no fat and his energy level fluctuates so dramatically through the day it is hard to watch.

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I've only been eating paleo-like for the past two weeks, and I've been losing weight for the past four months. I've had a few 'false starts' before, and my result every single time was that whenever I started eating paleo, weight started to melt off. BUT that's when I'm still restricting my calories to lose two pounds a week, and eating at that calorie intake strictly every single day.

I don't think just taking down your carbs will help you lose weight. You still need the proper calorie deficit, but the point of paleo is that you get full and stay satisfied with the sort of food you eat, and you get better nutrition than SAD eaters.

That's just my opinion and experience. Others may have had different experiences. I'll be able to give a more concrete answers in another month or so, I think.

Happy Losing!

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There must just be a difference in how certain bodies process foods metabolically because I've listened to every Paleo podcast known to man -- Robb Wolf, Jimmy Moore, Sara Fragoso, any interview with Loren Cordain or by Abel James, Nora Gedgaudus, etcetera, etcetera -- and I BELIEVED all the hype about ketogenic diets for weight loss. After 18 years of eating a mostly vegan diet and bearing 4 healthy children, I decided to radically change my diet to lose those pesky 15-20 lbs I couldn't seem to lose. So I began to eat a high fat, moderate protein, very low carb diet --Ketogenic. After only THREE weeks, I'd gained so much weight, I couldn't fit into any of my jeans (or I could, but I felt like a stuffed sausage!). Immediately, I began damage control, reverting back to my old vegan diet, plus paying better attention to portion control and calorie count. Presto! After two weeks, I was losing weight! I will never ever ever join the ranks of the Paleo/VLC movement or I will become a blimp with ZERO energy! I believe everyone on these posts who lauds the ketogenic/VLC diet for losing weight; only it definitely did NOT work for me!! There must just be a difference between the way my body metabolizes macronutrients versus the way, say, Jimmy Moore does (who has had stupendous success with weight loss through a ketogenic diet).

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I have had no problems taking out brown basmati rice (my only carbv of that kind) but I don't lose weight because I can easily eat 1000 calories of pecan nuts or almonds a sitting.

I suspect in evolutionary terms women were/are superior to men in that was can store fat and we need it as we make babies etc. So what was good then for 2 million years is not quite so good now when we won't be in times of famine very often these days.

I have always even as a child much preferred the protein and fat in any meal to anything else with it - typical meal as a child would be boiled pototoes and meat and some veg. and I could eat as much meat as I was given and more.

As a lot of women have said above fruit is probably the problem here. It is good for us and I think we need some and my body feels so good with it BUT unlike when I go in the garden to pick the wild blackberries and get only a mere handful, now we can buy as much as we can afford the portions are much larger and the cultured fruits much sweeter than traditionally are. Lack of will power over fruit is a problem.

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Six additional rules to help women lose weight on the Paleo diet can be found here at www.threedietsonedinner.com http://www.threedietsonedinner.com/2012/07/the-paleo-diet-for-weight-loss.html

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What I find works for me is: 1-A bigger high fat/low carb breakfast: eggs, heavy cream, full fat sausage 2-Reduce stress. 3-Take 1 or 2 15min "sun breaks" during my work day 4-Focus on eating meals slower & chewing fully

No diet without the above works for me. I think stress hormones might undermine women's weightloss in a way that it doesn't for a man?

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I am 46 years old, and have been doing crossfit for about 2 years. I work out 4-5 days a week, doing one boxing class along with the crossfit. I am 5'2" and weigh about 160. I am strong, so I try to remember that the scale number doesn't mean that much. But, I have had three children and my belly is flabby. I am just starting to transition into as paleo a diet as I can muster( between the kids and keeping kosher this feels very hard!). I am hoping that with the increased protein and decreased ( I hope) carb intake I can lose the weight, and get down to the size I want to be. Any help would be very appreciated!

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i can relate...i read that with paleo in a year one's weight would be where it should beI have been doing paleo for one year. i was a good 70 pounds over weight when i began...i lost about 30 pounds in the first several months. i am 54,so post menopausal and a type 1 diabetic . i started cross fit 2 and a half months ago and have gained 8 pounds...grrr..i know...i know it's muscle..i dont care so much about numbers... i would like to lose the fat that coats my new muscle. i feel terrific but i want the fat gone..sounds like i need to kebosh the alcohol and all dairy...being diabetic carbs are important especially when blood sugars go low which they do with exercise...any suggestions?

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do you guys find that taking out dairy is beneficial for weight loss/overall health from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE because for me I find that it helps me get in that extra fat really easily in combination with the energy boost from the coffee im drinking it with. A few tablespoons of cream is all the dairy I have daily.

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I lost too much weight when I first started Paleo. It just fell off. I've tried the low carb thing twice and always gain weight that way. I've tracked my food intake for a long time now and looked back at how I was eating when I lost weight the first time it looked like this:

Smoothie for breakfast: low cal

Spinach salad with some protein, berries and lots of olive oi for lunch: medium cal

Hard boiled eggs and lara bar or coconut flakes and almonds for snack

Huge pile of veggies with lots of fat and a large chunk of protein for dinner: high cal

Lots of frozen blueberries, strawberries and coconut milk and/or apples with almond butter for pre-bedtime snack

Overall I ate more calories than calories in calories out would say I ought to and lost weight. Now my weight stays pretty even unless I have any sweeteners at all, including honey or if I do the low carb thing, then I gain weight.

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I'll fill out a complete account at a later date but for me, weight loss has been achieved with one key word that seems to set all my ducks in a row: SLEEP

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It's hard to say what I've lost. Probably 40 pounds, 15 of it the last of the baby weight. I do well when I'm being really strict (a la Whole 30 or some such) and tend to maintain as soon as I allow myself wine, dark chocolate, and a little dairy and white rice. That's OK with me, though. I like the cyclic nature of it. As long as I don't fall off the wagon entirely, I don't seem to gain back what I've lost.

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Weight is such a pain to track, which is why I've stopped :) I think I'm around 150 lbs, around 5"4, but I feel 100% better than when I was in my "normal" BMI at 125 lbs. At 125 lbs, I stopped getting my period and starting losing my hair (it was crazy thin). Sure, I was really fit (lightweight rower in university), but it was uncomfortable to sit and I had to nap twice a day (noon and 4pm). I was eating so many calories to keep up with my workouts, but I just couldn't get on top of it. It sucked, because I didn't look that "thin" (rowing once a day every day of the week, then weights 6 days a week on top of that) and never had a completely flat stomach, but everything just wasn't working properly. My body fat was at 18% when we got tested, which isn't even that low, but for me it was low enough to stop the period and feel terrible. I became quite depressed, and was abruptly taken off the team after the coach found out about some surgeries (apparently if you've had more than one heart surgery you aren't supposed to compete at a varsity level for any sport in my university). I quickly gained weight, and settled to where I am now. Allowing myself to gain weight was the nicest thing, it was like going through puberty all over again, just in my 20's- my boobs got waaaaay bigger, my hips expanded, my period came back, my skin improved, my hair was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay (way way) thicker, and my mood improved leaps and bounds!!!! During that time when I was gaining weight was some of my best moods ever, and my mood remains very stable to this day.

My weight has gone up and down over the years- up when I was on SSRIs, down when I was rowing, and up when I stopped rowing, and I always feel better when I ere on the side of a "larger" me- I like having big hips, a little waist, and thick hair. I'm petite as is, and have always admired little, curvy, strong women (like my fit little mother). So many of my friends struggle to get themselves into that healthy BMI range, but never ask themselves if they feel better once they are there. Are they able to do more and feel better? Great, then keep that weight!! Do they feel weaker and less energetic? Maybe a few pounds could help with that. There is no "ideal" weight mold that fits for everyone, and you as long as you feel healthy, than as far as I'm concerned you ARE healthy. Having a good body image and feeling comfortable in your own skin, whatever the weight, will give you a longer and fuller life than losing those "last 10 lbs" ever will.

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Upvoted for complete awesomeness. This should be mandatory reading for all women, I got down to a BMI of 21 but I was miserable. MUCH happier in the 23-24 range. – sarah-ann Jan 31 2012 at 23:53
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This is the first time Ive wished I could apply multiple upvotes. This is awesome; I hope more women and girls read this. Thank you! – January Feb 1 2012 at 7:42
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Started eating Paleo in mid-November '10...was down 35 lbs - sans exercise except for walking - in about a quarter year. Since then, though, have been plateaued. Suspect I'm going to be one of those who has to cut the carbs way back to break through this. If nothing else, a few too many cheats (french fries done in conventional oils) have been making their way into my diet lately...

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Well I'm glad you posted this hack because I feel the same way and it's good to know I'm not alone! I wasn't overweight or needed to lose any weight for that matter when i started Paleo. I did lose about 10-15lbs but I'm still in the average category as far as weight, BMI, and body fat % goes. I would like to tigthen up my muscles and get those abs you were talking about but my lower abs just don't want to give way! That's where being a female comes into play...we're supposed to have fatty lower abs so we can carry babies and I think my body's just not ready to let go. I'm in my prime age (24) and while my body might be ready to get pregnant, I sure aint! It's been about 6 months for me so we'll see what happens in another 6 months or a year from now I think I'll have those abs you were describing! But I definitely think that the last 10-15lbs a woman can lose is going to take longer because of the way we're built. In my experience, I stopped taking birth control pills, do a lot of IF, stick to just leafy greens, and stay LC to help move the process along a little quicker. Until then I just try to focus on loving my body the way it is IN CASE I am stuck with this body comp forever. Although as far as your hack, I think even if you don't try to move things along quicker, your body will eventually (not as soon as men of course) give up it's last fat storage as long as you stay Paleo. So keep going and good luck!!!

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I can only say that my wife is at 10% BF and in size "0" jeans. Her abs, obliques, and intercostals all clearly defined. No sign of belly fat. Our baby turned a year old a few weeks ago. Funny thing is, she insists on maintaining a full-time job while in Nursing school. So busy, she hasn't worked out since the week she delivered. Over a year. My ex-wife of 11 years and I have 4 kids between us. Same thing. We don't count calories or measure anything. We eat till complete satiety. So my question to you is, are you pursuing a Paleo Lifestyle or on the paleo diet?

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from what i've read, 10% bodyfat isn't normal for a healthy female. very few elite women athletes even get to that level of bodyfat and i think it's unrealistic to hold women to that standard. – luckybastard Jun 15 2011 at 17:49
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but a woman who drops under 15% usually stops having her period. there's nothing healthy about that. and what exactly are we making excuses for? a woman at 18-20% bodyfat is lean. 10% is dangerous by most standards. – luckybastard Jun 15 2011 at 19:57
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I think every woman is different. When I had an 18% body fat and size 2 pants, my period stopped completely, hair thinned, everything kind of just freaked out. So my question to you is, are you generalizing all woman or just bragging about a defined wife? Sorry, couldn't help twisting the last weird question you snuck in there. – JeJ Jan 31 2012 at 23:03
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Just so the gainers know they're not alone...

I'm 5'2'' 114 pounds. I gained 5 pounds on Paleo for the 30 days I was on it and felt sluggish and tired. I went from taking in about 50 grams of carbs to about 20 grams, but it still didn't help and I kept gaining. I also experienced a lot of stomach issues and, if you can believe it, broke into rashes and hives quite frequently (I think I developed an egg allergy).

My background: Been lacto-vegetarian for 6 years (on Paleo I introduced fish and eggs). I've been off processed food and eating a 'real food' diet for the past 2 years (I lost about 5 pounds effortlessly just making that switch. I've never had problems with energy and have always been very active, weight lifting and doing light cardio at the the gym about 4-5 times per week, taking yoga, ballet and biking to work on top of it.

When went Paleo I found I couldn't keep up my active lifestyle anymore. I was tired at the gym and ended my workouts early quite frequently (though I did cut back on how often I was going).

Since then, I switched back to my regular diet and my energy levels came back up and I effortlessly dropped the 5 pounds I had gained (actually in just a matter of days).

Your mileage may vary.

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There's something for everyone, right? So what do you eat now? – YoungPaleoLover May 15 2012 at 0:01
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I've wanted to post this same question. I've always found I only lose weight w/some form of calorie reduction. I tried Paleo hoping there'd be an exception. NOPE!

I actually gained weight eating no-dairy paleo--from 132 to 146 (@5' 6") or so cos I think I added heavy weights @ same time as diet and might have been eating too much protein at first, but that was OK since I'm 43 and wanted a little more muscle mass for my bones/longevity.

I tried a lot of things before cutting calories but recently CR has FINALLY worked for me. Cutting out nuts nor adding sprints to my workouts helped the fat come off until I did calorie restriction. The fat is melting off now.

I average around 1200 a day and eat only meats, fish, eggs, leafy greens, onion (as big carb hit of the day!), avocados. I eat about 50 carbs a day. Fish oil, Vit D, nettle tea daily for calcium.

Last summer I was losing weight on about 1200 calores, 100-130 carbs but I don't think it was as easy for my body to get into ketosis which helps. So the weight loss seems faster on the lower carbs.

I generally skip breakfast and go for a walk instead. I'm IF'ing, feeding between 12pm-7pm daily, generally.

Check out this recent podcast @Healthy Skeptic on food quality and body fat set points/metabolism and some ideas on how to change your body's system. Interesting theory.

Good luck!

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I will say (and this echos others' contributions) that while I FEEL loads better sans grains or sugar, to lose weight steadily I need to:

  • Eat VLC or ZC - even not eat fruits, sweet potatoes, regular potatoes, honey, etc.
  • Consciously stop eating before I want to, even on fats and protein. Paleo proponents often tout paleo as a lifestyle where you can eat ad libitum, but my satiation switch has long been mangled, doused in gasoline, and lit with a match. In other words, I have to depend on objective limits rather than subjective limits to determine whether I've had enough.

When I don't do either of these, I stall or, worse, regain.

I feel compelled to say, while giving up wheat generally represented one day of pain for me last summer, in the months since, giving up sugars, starches, and fructose remains a daily battle that sometimes I win, and sometimes I lose.

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I know my satiety meter is broken too! It's much closer to normal than it used to be, but if I am eating non-Paleo foods than it REALLY doesn't work. – sherpamelissa Feb 21 2011 at 1:39
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in the same boat! – texasleah Feb 21 2011 at 1:48
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Same here. OK, not that I'd want to wish this on anyone, but I was wondering if it was just me, so it's kind of nice to know I'm not alone. – LadyAdmin Feb 21 2011 at 4:19
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Noticed this morning that somebody downvoted this, which is kind of mindboggling: why downvote someone's personal struggle/conclusions about getting her body to lose weight? It's not like I said that everyone should eat lower carb all the time; only me when I have weight to lose. – familygrokumentarian Jun 30 2011 at 11:01
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I have the same issue with my satiation switch - I can overeat on anything. My most recent binge is watermelon. (Because I gave up processed sugars.) I am fortunate enough not to regain much when I don't eat perfectly, though! – SarahH May 15 2012 at 15:43
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I began Paleo at 125 lbs in December of 2009 but by April of 2010 I lost 25% of my body weight and weighed in at 107 lbs. By May I was at 103, and at my lowest I weighed in at 97 lbs. I'm a 5'1ish girl who has always been athletic, however what kicked up my weight loss was by eliminating dairy, gluten, legumes, and introducing paleo-friendly meals such as boiled chicken and steamed broccoli, grilled bison steaks etc. Also, I began moving more (walking more, cross fitting, yoga) - just added movement to my day in tandem with eating clean and wholesome foods ignited and has kept the furnace of a burning metabolism going strong.

At my lowest (98 lbs) I was at around 8% body fat which by all means was too thin for my frame. I did not feel at my best, so I stopped myself from potentially entering the "faileo" diet zone by getting over the fear of 'fat' and enjoying the delicious taste of chicken thighs, nitrate-free bacon, avocados, full fat coconut milk, etc. Currently, I'm at 100-101 lbs with an average body fat of 12% which has put me at my best. I have great energy, clear skin, mental clarity, greater endurance, and a solid and muscular physique! I rarely get sick and if I do, it is a result of some gastro-irritants but that's mainly because I just can't get enough of broccoli.

I also practice a solid routine of Intermittent Fasting (IF) - sometimes going a full 24 hours without food, but once the fast is broken I eat and I eat well! When I workout, I do so in a fasted state and once I'm done, I typically ride out the post workout high for an hour or 2 before re-feeding. I don't eat breakfast, but do enjoy a nice hearty lunch and smaller dinner.

When I felt the need to "up" my fat loss, I cut back on eating high sugar foods like carrots, sweet potatoes, fruits, etc. I don't eat much fruit now nor do I eat carrots, but if I am out dining with friends or family I won't shy away from indulging the sweet treat. Speaking of sweets - no sugar, no chocolate, and nuts. Nuts to me are 'dangerous' because I could and have gone to town on a whole container of them in one sitting. To avoid this pitfall, I simply don't eat them.

I supplement with 4 fish oils a day (2 at each meal) and if I am out and eat high Omega 6 rich foods, I will take a teaspoon of Carlson's Cod liver oil post mealtime. For feminine issues like bloating, PMS, and all that jazz associated with hormones I take an evening primrose oil supplement daily. That little gem has helped dealing with the monthly side effects of being a lady a lot.

All in all weight loss is not concrete - it fluctuates like the temperature outside. Like temperature it is just a number. Seriously, try not to sweat it. What you should be focusing on is how you feel and how you're clothes fit - stuff like that. Numbers will only drive you insane. Go out there and get wild! :)

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Amy, Great answer. This is really similar to my experience--I'm IF'ing 16-20 hours a day w/a 4-7 hour feed window. I'm also restricting calories. I actually feel so good when I'm not eating--almost high--I don't want to eat. Have you had any negative effects from your 24 hour fasts? I've always really enjoyed a 24 hr fast every now then for how clear and light I feel after. The digestive tract feels so clean and ready for food--and I swear my stomach acid is higher after a fast and thus I digest better thereafter. – ladyp May 30 2011 at 20:39
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I have to cut out carbs, nuts and fruit to loose weight. To loose effectively, I have to be in a state similar to the Atkins induction phase. Its really annoying but I've come to terms with it. The moment I start drinking alcohol, eating fruit or carbs it all piles back on. I haven't gotten down to my goal weight yet so I can't go into a maintenance phase yet.

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I have lost thirty pounds since starting Paleo. However, I am restricting my carbs. I average between 6-30g carbs a day. Oh, and I started Paleo the beginning of January.

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I wasn't trying to lose weight when I went paleo, but I did, effortlessly and immediately (which is odd for me--pre-paleo, I had to watch my calories like a hawk to maintain my weight, which was incredibly stressful and depressing). I was about 115 lbs (I'm 5' 3") when I started, and was down to 105 in a month (it's worth noting that I completely stopped counting calories). If you're on paleo and not losing, my guess is that your diet is too fruit/starch-heavy. Try trading in things like fruit, squash, and sweet potatoes for high-fiber, low-sugar/starch veggies for a while and see what happens.

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"If you're on paleo and not losing, my guess is that your diet is too fruit/starch-heavy" Never assume that others are like you - you'll be wrong most of the time. I don't eat fruit or starches but easily gain weight on paleo (and some dairy). Not sure how old you are, but I think young women may have a similar experience to men - easily losing weight. If you're not over 40 yet, let's see how that goes. – SydneyOs May 14 2011 at 20:30
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1 - On average, if you assume that people are like you, you'll often be right, and if you assume you're a unique snowflake, you'll often be wrong. That's how averages work. 2 - I was just offering a suggestion based on my own experiences and observations--that's what paleohacks is for. – losterman May 14 2011 at 22:57
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Furthermore, dairy spikes insulin just like starchy veg/fruit does--I'd look at that before I'd look at age. – losterman May 14 2011 at 23:01
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I had to drop all the carbs from my diet to start seeing steady significant loss. I was paleo starting Feb '10, and it took me all that year to get off 20 pounds. I would constantly be going up and down, and I still had some appetite issues even strict no dairy paleo. I thought the zero carb people were nutters, but I went full carni in January and I've lost another 12 since then.

I'm essentially ZC or VLC, I don't count calories or weigh anything, but I try to estimate to 75% fat. I eat eggs, bacon, grassfed butter and cheese, heavy cream, beef, lamb... The only plants I eat are herbs. I'm just one of those weirdos who stops losing weight even with a bit of green veg.

Mind, I was vegetarian for 5 years, raw vegan 2 years, and fruitarian 1 year. And I'm not yet 21. I essentially went from 115lbs to 230 eating tofu and broccoli, and then tried to shift that weight starving myself with watermelon and lettuce with no avail, so I'm betting my body is still reeling a bit.

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Late to the party. I laughed out loud at "I thought the zero carb people were nutters." I did too -- when I started reading theBear's thread over on ALC, not only did I think he was nuts, but dangerous. And here I am today, full ZC for almost two years. Our bodies don't have ideologies, only realities. – Rose May 30 2011 at 15:49
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I switched to Paleo because it made sense to me. I wanted to maintain long term health. As a result I lost 12 pounds. My mom NEEDS to lose weight due to her emphesema and she has had success with Paleo eating.

It seems to me, the more fat I eat the more weight I lose. So, to make my family happy, I delibertly think about adding in more healthy carbs, so I can stop losing weight. I am 45 years, 5'4" and weigh 118.

Food is very important to me, but now I don't think about it that often because I am satiated & nourished. When I do eat, I strive for the most nutrient dense foods. Its really quite easy to be Paleo.

By the way, for example: I use heavy cream (with a bit of coffee or in tea) butter, grass fed beef, pastured eggs, some veggies, little to no fruit (once a week). No sugar or processed foods if I can avoid it. I am not 100% perfect all the time. Traveling is the worse time for me.

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I've been easing into paleo since Aug 2010 and have lost ~30 lbs. I started by cutting boxed foods and other processed foods. I then limited my grain intake, and then finally completely cut out gluten and most grains.

I haven't really lost any weight since Nov/Dec and I know I have more fat to lose...I can see it sitting on my belly. I have been maintaining, but not losing. The weight-loss stall doesn't have much to do with the holidays as I stayed fairly strict and even hosted Thanksgiving and Christmas at my house so I could control the food options a little more. I think the major culprit is that the cold weather moved in around that time and so I stopped playing in the backyard as much.

I'm considering cutting out dairy and alcohol. I limit sugar intake, but I could be better about this. I also have a love affair with potatoes, which can't be helping my waistline. 8)

As far as exercise, most of what I do is slow and steady (walking the dog, bike rides, etc.). A few weeks ago, I started the 100 pushups challenge and, now that the weather is improving, I plan to be outside running around more at higher speeds/intensities.

I have always lost weight easier than my husband, but I think that has more to do with our backgrounds: I have been skinny for most of my life (chunky for 7 of my 27 years) whereas he has been overweight or obese most, if not all, of his life.

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Men and post-menopausal women are far more sensitive to the lipogenic effects of fructose. The elimination of it from the diet of an estrogen-producing female will have a much less drastic effects. My gut feeling is that an increase in activity is far more important for weight loss among these females.

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I lost weight initially when I switched to Paleo (probably about 5-ish lbs). I'm 5'6" and and about 162 lbs, last time I had my body fat measured it was 21-22%. I carry most of my weight in my thighs... I'd love to lean down a bit, so I'm looking more into IF and PSMF - anyone have any tips?

Looking at my cal/fat/carb averages for a few days taken over the past month, I average 1700 calories, 125g of fat (60% of calories), 110g of carbs (24%, higher than I thought it would be for veggies!), and 72g of protein (15%) a day.

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It's not just Paleo. In general, women have a notoriously harder time losing weight on any kind of diet. I think it's a matter of hormones.

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One of the major differences, is we cycle, where as guys are the same all the time. Our cycling causes inflammation and with the changes in hormones causes temporary insulin resistance. So some times in our cycle we lose weight no problem, and others we could WOD all day long and eat 1 celery and gain weight! – Wendy May 19 2011 at 2:43
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I agree with the point that women have a tougher time.....but completely disagree its true on any type of diet. The reason is because we are aiming at the wrong target. – The Quilt May 30 2011 at 16:25
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And it isn't just Homo Sapiens! Back in the day, when I was conditioning horses, it was striking to me how quickly the stallions' body composition could be changed, relative to the mares. (And being someone who likes to see results, it was very frustrating to be assigned a mare as I knew I'd be spending 3-5x the amount of time and sweat to get 50% of the results.) – Marie Jun 15 2011 at 18:00
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Wow, fascinating, Marie! – Ambimorph Jun 16 2011 at 17:08
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What do you mean by the wrong target? – Glither Jun 30 2011 at 5:33
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