As far as your cookie binges go, I think it's because you're viewing Paleo as something that's depriving you, rather than something that's giving you an incredible gift: health.

You're inhaling those cookies because you know they're "forbidden" on Paleo, and you're denying yourself the dubious pleasure of eating them. I wouldn't be surprised if you're telling yourself things like, "Okay, after these cookies, I'm never gonna eat another one again," or, "I better eat them up quickly so the temptation is gone sooner."

You need to change your way of thinking, and approach it like, "I'm electing to not eat these cookies because they are detrimental to my health. If I truly wanted to eat one, I fully permit myself to do so, but I acknowledge that they are not optimal fuel for my body." After awhile, you'll start to notice how rubbish those cookies make you feel, and you'll choose not to eat them, versus bingeing on them in one sitting because they are forbidden and you think you can have nary a cookie ever again. You're allowed to eat anything you so wish, but you're choosing not to eat them for yourself.

Good luck! :)

Sweets ? I don't eat them. But I didn't pre-paleo either so YMMV. Vegans ? I'd eat them, but only if I knew where they've been.

I always find that eating something sweet (I used to do low-carb, so not just a paleo issue) restarted my cravings all over again, and I'd have to go through that withdrawal again and again. Not everyone is this way! But for me, I just have to stop eating sweet things, and then I stop wanting them. Continuing to occasionally eat sweets would be torture for me - a roller coaster of craving, indulging, denying, craving, indulging... nope.

re veganism- the vegetarian myth, by lierre keith, is a bit strident, but - written by an ex-vegan with 20 years of veganism iirc - deals with the ethical arguments head on. veganism rests on a foundation of industrial agriculture, mostly row crop soybeans, which tears up the landscape and destroys local ecologies, and which requires the input of either petrochemical-based fertilizers or animal products. paleo and similar eating patterns are expressions of our place within a global ecology.

Join PERV - It's a HOOT!

People for the Ethical Regard of Vegetables

• How would you like to be separated from your nether regions, plunged into a boiling cauldron of oil or water and then eaten?

• How would you like to have your genitalia cut off and used to decorate churches, houses and the bosoms of human females?

• How would you like to have your unborn children put in a mill and ground up over the corpses of related species?

• How would you like to have your head cut off so that people can play football on you?

• And it’s a matter of your own health. Do you realise that leguminous vegetables such as peas and beans fix deadly nitrogen from the air, which could give you cancer?

Act now! Send a large cheque to the Number Watch Cayman Island account to become a member of PERV. In return you will receive a free catalogue of synthetised proteins, carbohydrates, vitamins and fibre (no fat, of course) with price list. Leave the flowers where they are in the field. You know it makes scents.

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/2002%20February.htm

I think often, the sweet binges are biological. Often, if I just do one or two bites, then I can stop right there without too much cravings. But if I eat a whole slice of cake, then the craving desire kicks in. Then it becomes much harder to stop. If I do a second slice, then I will be thinking of the damned cake all day, waiting in there, just asking me to eat a third slice... Starting from the first bite, the slope becomes slipperier and slipperier the farther I fall. But if I eat none at all, I forget about the cake in a few seconds and it's all over. So I don't think this is about me thinking I am deprived. If it was purely about thinking I was deprived, the craving should go down after eating some, not rocketing through the roof! I suspect people who assume it's all psychological simply do not experience this and so don't understand it. THere seems to be a threshold and I have to stay on one side of it to remain safe. Strawberries are not enough to trigger it. Bananas may sometimes if eat them too often. Cake will do it reliably and quickly and so will straight sugar granules. When I eat lowcarb, I can also actually smell carbs from long distances. My senses are heightened. I have known to often say say at work, "SOmeone is preparing carbohyrdates.. smells like.. potatoes!" And with my sense of smell heightened, good quality tasty carbs like potatoes or homemade pumpkin pie will actually taste 3 times better than they ever did before, which I think also contributes to binging.

I used to be the girl who could bake a cake and eat the entire thing in a day. Cake was my downfall. I didn't have a limit on cake and just like Eva, the more I ate, the more I had to have. Two weeks ago, I couldn't finish the cupcake I decided to indulge in for my birthday. It was just too sweet. I never in a million years thought I'd become the girl who would happily just say no to cake.

When I first went paleo, I felt very limited. I wanted to be able to remain true to my decision to eat clean, but some days I just wanted to rebel and test the limits. I'd "paleo-ize" recipes, but nothing ever tasted as good as the real thing (muffins, pizza, etc). It wasn't until I decided to just embrace my choice to be healthy that it became easier. Most of the time it's just about your attitude. Once I stopped beating around the bush and cut sugar out completely, I was much better off physiologically.

I've been paleo for almost six months. In the last month or two I've noticed that my palette has adapted to the foods I eat. In regard to indulgences, I've found that I had to adapt to what properly satiates my palette. Sweets no longer taste the same to me and a tiny amount of heavy whipping cream in my coffee is usually the sweetest thing I have. Occasionally coconut milk ice cream or "clean" cheesecake (aka not store bought with hfcs) is a great treat.

Now that my palette has changed so much though, the thing I am most aware of is that sweets still sound good. It's the tempt, not the taste. I remember how good they were and that's where the craving comes from. It's all psychological. So if I choose to indulge, I make it worth the effort. I wouldn't mindlessly eat the most amazing grass-fed sirloin. I'd take my time with it and enjoy it. I treat my indulgences the same way. When I eat consciously, it's a lot harder to make bad choices. It also becomes a lot easier to say "Hey, this cupcake really isn't as great as I expected it to be. I'm going to throw the rest of it away" or "Wow, this espresso chocolate chip cookie is mind-blowing and I'm going to enjoy the whole thing."

For me, taking full responsibility for all of my food choices makes eating clean so much easier. If I make the wrong choice, I don't beat myself up over it. I just work that much harder to make better choices the next time. You just have to find what works best for you. Patience and time is helpful too. Good luck!

As far as your vegan friend goes, I'm with the person who said it is a religion. However, just for fun, you can remind him that many creatures are killed during the harvesting of grains and vegetables, and that the transport involved uses fuel that are obtained using methods that can decimate an entire ecosystem, blah, blah, blah...

I wouldn't even bother unless he is always in your face about it, though.

As far as the sugar cravings go -- the only thing that works for me is to not EVER eat it. I also stay away from starchy veggies and only eat fruit on occasion. It doesn't take much for me to get those cravings. I'd rather just not ever eat sugar and not have to deal with it.

You could try first substituting fruit, then low-fructose fruit such as raspberries and strawberries, then sweet potato.

As for veganism, it's religion, not science. You'll not succeed in using science to sway a Christian toward atheism, so why try to sway your friend away from his religion? Just let him be and he will eventually find the right path on his own. I should know, I had a vegan diet for 8 years. For me however it wasn't morality but health I was after. Obviously I bought into the lipid hypothesis and was convinced that it would make me healthier. No such luck. I was at my fattest point as a vegan; I'm now at my leanest point. The best way to get through to people with regard to diet is for them to see how happy and vigorous you are. If they are flabby, depressed and sick all the time they will either suspend disbelief indefinitely or wake up and change.

Sweets: This is not gonna be a popular answer but as part of that 80/20 thing, be willing to experiment with artificial sweeteners that agree with you, or at least stevia. The idea that using the stuff makes you crave more sweets is totally bogus, at least in my experience. Actually, I'm at the point I can't stand to eat or drink large amounts of sugar anymore and I don't even want them. Then again, I was always more of a savory snacker--think potato chips and the like. The only regular sweet I had in my diet was soda. I can't do that now, it makes me sick--and thank Ceiling Cat, too, 'cause the stuff was killing me.

There are scads of Paleo recipe blogs and sites out there and some of them have fabulous dessert recipes. I just got done drooling over one last night, it's here: Health-Bent. The main blogger's a former pastry chef. She includes sugar in her recipes and gives her reasons why, but you can try substitutes if you're willing to prep and bake for yourself.

Vegans: I agree with the other people here who say don't bother with him if he is not constantly in your face. But off the top of my head here's what you're missing if you're vegan:

Vitamin A (beta carotene is not vitamin A and not everyone can convert it, even healthy people)

Vitamin D3 (you can get D2 from mushrooms but again, you must convert it)

Vitamin K2 (only K1 is in plant foods and--guess what)

Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin is NOT proper B12 and will wreck your ability to uptake the real stuff)

PLUS, any minerals you get with plant foods are usually chelated or otherwise bound up with some other compound some way where your body has to work harder to get at them.

This is nothing to play around with. I'm realizing, the more I read about this stuff, that our current requirements for micronutrient intake in the U.S. are based on the dietary needs of people who live on Neolithic disease agents--where the authorities will admit we need the nutrients in question. You have to go to alternative sources to learn about some of these nutrients at all. I had to discover the Weston Price Foundation just to understand that the reason my face is crooked and I had to have two different orthodontic treatments as a kid is because my mom probably didn't get enough K2 in her diet. Wish I'd known all that before I had my two kids.

Vegans will weed themselves out of the gene pool eventually if they never change their minds. Too bad they're going to take so many with them who don't know any better, including their own children, like that baby I heard about years ago who starved because all his parents would feed him was soy milk. Poor little guy. But it's just as bad to impose many years of malnutrition, in a way.

What about killing veggies? Could be similarly immoral.

At first, it helped me to give away sweets that landed on me, so I did get something out of it. People are really happy to get free cookies.

RE: Vegan--look, people can get by on almost anything, that is one of the reasons people have been successful animals on the planet. There are volumes of books supporting a vegan diet, as well as the paleo diet. Why bother getting into it with someone. He is only going to tell you that people used to get b12 from eating a bit of dirt (and the "stuff" that is in it) that we don't get anymore due to sanitary practices. They will tell you gorillas are vegans (well, they eat bugs and bug eggs that are stuck to the leaves, but whatever). I doubt you will ever have a productive conversation with this person.

Perhaps it is better to find common ground. Eating whole foods is key, yes...

I feel your pain! I hate sugar and love it so much at the same time. It's really been a battle for me. When I first went Paleo in the fall, it was part of a competition I was doing. I'm super-competitive, so I stuck to no sugar and it was good.

I have found that if I give myself an inch, I gobble up the mile. I just hate that, and I hate being weak, but I know that's what's going to happen. I have to completely stay away from sweets to maintain my control.

One thing I try to do when I'm around delicious junk is to remind myself about all the chemicals and crap those things are made of. I also try silently judging everyone eating it, and reminding myself how hard I worked for my muscles. Not the nicest thing, but it's silent. :)

And sometimes, I just eat it. Nobody's perfect, and we're all doing the best we can. Good luck!

ETA: something that helps me maintain my resolve is this: Every time you're about to eat sugar, just tell yourself "I don't want to burn any fat for the next few hours."

It's a good motivator!

as for the sugar, it takes several weeks of none to get over them, then they get too sweet, and are no longer as appealing. I believe it has to do with bacterial die-off.

as for the vegans... there are so many resources I dont know where to begin.

http://beyondveg.com/ does some nice breakdowns.

Being able to live is not adequate, Failure to Thrive is the main issue with nothing but Veggies. not to mention toxin load.

80/20 rule. Let yourself eat something sweet and totally non-paleo every day, but be very deliberate about when, what, and how much. Always eat it as part of a meal, with fat/protein/fiber to blunt the impact of the sugar. Whats the point of "optimal" health without the simple pleasures in life?

If your mind is telling you it's time to eat something sweet, eat something filling and paleo that's not salty/savory in flavor. Cream/yogurt, coconut, avocado, frozen berries, cocoa powder, all help to trick your sweet tooth into being satisfied without going astray.

My first few months I was still into sweets, more of a mental habit than anything else. I went through a lot of dark chocolate, and sometimes yogurt/cream over frozen berries. Now I'm used to regarding sweets as no "food" anymore than margarine or bread would be, and it's no trouble.

As far as Veganism, if somebody is that far gone to have convinced themselves that a human is not a natural carnivore, for the most part logic will be wasted on them. I make it a point to prove otherwise by ordering/cooking the fattest, rarest cuts of meat I can get and by casually eating the fish head, chicken bones, etc that are left over on the table.

Wow, reading the question and then the flood or replies just shows how far these insidious non-foods have gotten their claws into some people. But really, why think about it, I'm sure you don't think about heroin, cocaine, meth-amphetamine etc, (well maybe some people do) so why waste time and effort thinking about sugar and all its permutations? You wouldn't be of the attitude of "I'll just have a little bit of heroin and then stop", so why have "a little bit of cake or a cookie then I'll stop"? I'll bet you don't smoke either. You know dangerous smoking is, you have made a conscious decision you won't do that to your body. Stay strong, stay the course and your body will thank you. For not smoking and not eating crap..