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For someone looking to improve their health and lose a little weight (10-20 lbs), which would be the more beneficial approach?

  • Go VLC (ketogenic) and then reintroduce starches later when ideal weight etc. reached
  • Maintain a low to moderate carb level by keeping safe starches in the diet (potatoes mainly)

Kurt Harris is by far the person I respect and trust most in the Paleo world so both methods would be based around his 12 steps.

I am concerned about going VLC for too long as I don't want to mess up my insulin sensitivity and have heard a number of negative stories lately with regards to VLC diets. Also staying in ketosis long term does not seem to be the most optimal thing to do from much that I have read.

6 months ago I would have just stuck to VLC but Kurt Harris evolving views on starches and his recent macronutrient posts have really made me start to question everything I thought I believed!

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I eat sweet potatoes, blackberrys, and blueberrys every week. Those are my high carbs items....I lost 4 to 5 pounds since January 1st. I love berries, and i don't want to give them up. Sweet potatoes - I usually eat only at my post workout meal though. – GPS Feb 15 2011 at 12:17
I like Harris, too, but his views seem to be evolving. I can't quite figure out why, and his posts seem to me a little grumpy these days. – Lee Feb 15 2011 at 20:15

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Also staying in ketosis long term does not seem to be the most optimal thing to do from much that I have read.

In general I agree with you. But it should be pointed out that long-term ketosis is good for obese people who, for health reasons, have an urgent need to lose weight rapidly. It can also be good for people with neurological disease.

For someone looking to improve their health and lose a little weight (10-20 lbs), which would be the more beneficial approach?

Given your goals, the second option. Meat, tubers, and green vegetables. It's healthier and closer to the typical paleolithic diet.

I'd try that first. If your excess fat doesn't start to disappear within a month, or if fat loss starts but then stops before the excess is all gone, then I'd think about resorting to ketosis.

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If all factors are normal (normal insulin sensitivity, no digestive issues etc) it's still the calories that count, not the amount of starch you take in ... But if you're metabolism is all screwed up, you might want to leave the sweet potatoes alone, scince your insulin response will be over the top (and therefore fat oxidation will be greatly diminished).

I'd go for a leangains type approach with an extended fast (skipping breakfast) and only eating starch when it is really used by the body (after workouts). This way, you'll be burning fat most of the time, without you having to worry about every g of carbs.

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I have not found calories to be the definitive determiner of weight loss. I lost almost 50 lbs eating huge quantities of just meat. I would estimate that I took in well over 2000 calories a day, and I'm a 5'6 woman. By calorie-theory accounts I should have gained more than 50 lbs in the same time frame. – Ambimorph Feb 15 2011 at 14:52
That's why i specifically stated "under normal circumstances", by wich i meant a standard, average-bmi person with no metabolic issues ... and btw, do you know exactly how much of your calories came from fat and how much came from the protein per se? – Jan Feb 15 2011 at 16:44
Fair enough, though doesn't someone with weight to lose have a metabolic problem almost by definition? I don't know exactly my calorie proportions. I eat steaks and chops mostly, so it probably varies a lot. I'm guessing 65-75% fat by calorie. – Ambimorph Feb 15 2011 at 22:54
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I try to eat starch with every meal, usually in the form of mashed potatoes. I think it's misguided to cultivate an irrational fear of glucose.

Based on my research and personal experience, the cornerstone of the obesity epidemic, and really human adiposity in general, is fructose, not glucose. By adopting a VLF(ructose) diet, you will be far and away making the biggest difference in enabling fat loss. A precipitous decrease in daily fructose intake (below 5 grams) and an increase in overall activity is an ideal strategy. The lack of fructose results in a low likelihood of fat gain, while the activity increase, especially if it's an abundant amount of low-draw activity, burns through your existing fat stores. I find that high-draw exercise just depletes my glycogen stores and increases my appetite and starch requirement.

Over enough time, I imagine that most of the fat would be lost without an increase in activity, but few of us are that patient.

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Carbs are not the devil when it comes to weight loss,but you do have to be careful how much you consume and what kind.When I started running last summer, I stuffed myself with white rice and white rice pasta,thinking I needed the carbs for energy.As a result, I put on about 7 pounds in two weeks.When I went in the other direction(no carbs at all),I felt like hell,even though my weight stayed the same.Fasting until after my evening workout at least 4 days a week,then eating a small amount of sweet potato/plantain/carrot(and rarely a white rice product as a break) with a decent amount of meat have made my workouts much better.After weighing myself out of curiosity yesterday(clothes got much looser very quickly),I've lost 7 pounds without trying to.I think it's a matter of not panicking your body..don't make it feel like it's carb loaded"put on weight for winter", or "it's winter without a carb in sight" seasons.Especially for women..we are so adapted to holding on the weight in case of pregnancy that any hint of underload/overload can freak the body out.

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Besides Dr. Harris, The Perfect diet authors also cheer for some (200-600 calories) starch.

Their sources are white rice, potatoes and tapioka (?) and something else.

The main reason I like that philosophy (not rice though) is that transforming protein (due too little carbohydrates) is work and why make my body work harder if I can add pretty non toxic food and ease the percentage of the transformation.

Anyway check their website if you seek more info although if it isn't there, let me know and I'll get my book and type it out.

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I would suggest intermittent fasting. You can enter ketosis on fasts, and eat some starch during the feeding period. The fasting would also help improve your insulin sensitivity, so you can deal with the starches better.

I would definitely try it with starches first, and only go vlc if you have to.

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