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I have been on a muscle building regimen for about 6 months now with good success, but I want great success. Now, I know Dr Kurt Harris believes that bodybuilding is only for vanity, but I'm not with him on that. I want to see what my body is really capable of. I want to maximize potential, or at least move closer toward that goal, for a variety of reasons.

That being said, I did a lot of research of whey protein powders and settled in on Whey Cool by Designs for Health. They use a raw milk grass fed cold processed whey protein concentrate and the ingredients are better than most others. I really like the powder but it's quite pricey and many people on PaleoHacks have made good points in other threads that spending the extra coin on grass fed raw milk powders might not be worth it. As a counter-argument, I think the 4 best selling points is the high CLA content, the live cultures, the cold processing with no chemicals, and the fact that it's un-denatured.

So my real question here is... what about using homemade liquid raw whey made from raw grass fed milk. We make whey all the time and always have a big jar of it in our fridge. I did some pokin around online to try to find the protein composition of raw liquid whey and how I might be able to incorporate that into my post workout drink instead of using powder, but my findings came up short of a satisfiable conclusion.

I know whey powders are not revered by all as fully Paleo. However, circumventing that argument here... Anyone know how I could use raw liquid whey to help build more muscle? I'm not worried about flavor. I can take care of that. I just want to know about how much to use, how effective might it be, and how much protein I could get from the liquid. Also, if anyone has an actual testimony, that would be mighty splendid.

Thanks so much!

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I think Masterjohn does not fully endorse this supplier as unprocessed because of the temperature used in the manufacture is too high and can denature the proteins. I would check with him about that issue before you pay up. The stuff is not cheap as you know. Whey is useful because it is insulinogenic and really can build muscle when your very fit. If youre not the hormonal system will force it to adipocytes. – The Quilt Mar 2 2011 at 2:49
the main effect of whey is to help synthesize glutiothione which is the main antioxidant of the body. – The Quilt Mar 2 2011 at 2:51
Just to add that you can make your own whey - as in 'curds and whey'. If you can get your hands on raw milk, all you need to do is put it out on the counter and watch it separate for two or three days and then strain the liquid through a cheesecloth. The solid left in the cloth is curds and the liquid strained through is whey. And it is totally RAW. – Louisa Mar 2 2011 at 9:34
Louisa, did you read my entry? The liquid whey I propose using is homemade. I keep a big jar of it in my fridge. It's from raw milk, just like you describe. Thanks though. – Jack Kronk Mar 2 2011 at 15:43
Dr K. - Masterjohn actually comments on "Whey Cool" protein? I doubt that. Please show me where if he does. I'd be happy to look it over. Did you research the brand? They use raw milk and cold processing. It is undenatured. – Jack Kronk Mar 2 2011 at 15:45
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9 Answers

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My 2 cents. This is Whey Concentrate. So they're going to have more of the original fats in it than a Whey Isolate. So if there's anything left from the grass fed cow milk, it's more likely to be in this than an Isolate. The protein also looks pretty good (roughly 80% for plain and vanilla flavors). The price though, yikes. Roughly 60 bucks for 2 pounds of powder. I get Isolate (90% protein) for 10-11 bucks a pound. Looks like a solid Whey at a premium price.

Now, something to remember about Whey. It's a supplement with 2 sides. Health benefits (immune system, etc) and muscle building (protein). The less processed it is, the more immuno-whatsits and other goodies it has (as well as lactose). The more processed it is, the more protein it has (so better for muscle building). Usually you'll see one or the other to save on price, Whey Cool has both (thus the high price).

If you're healthy already, do you really need to spend the primo bucks on this, or can you go with a cheaper (in comparison) Isolate and concentrate on the muscle building aspect? It all depends on what's important to you.

In terms of liquid Whey from cheese making. Yes, you can drink that, but you need to drink gallons of it. Regular Milk runs 8% protein (of which, 20% is Whey and the rest is Casein). So a really really small amount of Whey protein there in comparison. Which is why they concentrate it via drying/filtering/etc... Not necessarily worthwhile. However, some people do muscle building off drinking regular milk.

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there's some good perspective here. thanks for your comments James. – Jack Kronk Mar 2 2011 at 2:48
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I am a cheesemaker - and have worked previously at factories that produced whey powders in their various forms. Was searching the internet for drink formula's to use my excess whey on I saw your post.

Thought I would give my answer your question: As above post, you can drink it sure. But it has a very low protein content, less than 1%. Milk only has around 3.5 - 4% protein (depending on the cows and feed etc). The majority (5%) of the solids found in both whey and milk is lactose. Lactose is removed via filtration in the manufacture of high protein whey powders.

Whey Protein makes up 20% of the total protein. Depending on the method of manufacture you might have a bit of fat in there. If you have just squeezed out they whey from your coagulated curd, you might have around 1% fat in there as well.

When you make curd at home, by leaving milk on the bench etc. You are letting bacteria grow in the milk, this lowers the pH of the milk, until around 4.6 the milk will coagulate. And the whey separates out. However, at this low pH, alot of whey protein is denatured, and your whey will taste sour, and be protein depleted by the whey protein that has been denatured and stuck in the curd.

What you need is "sweet whey". This is made by using a coagulation enzyme called rennet. It can be derived from calf stomachs, or from plant origin. This enzyme causes coagulation of the casein. 1.5g of double strength will coagulate 100L at 30 degrees Celsius in about 40minutes. You can then cut the curd, and the whey will be expelled. This "sweet whey" is what is used to make WPI's etc. It tastes much nicer, and doesn't need two days on the bench growing a random collection of bacteria found in and around your kitchen :P

At the end of the day, companies will harp on about cold processing etc. But they have to dry the powder. And for food safety I am sure they must have to pasteurize. And unless they are freeze drying the powder (prohibitively expensive). It will be going into a spray drier to remove the last of the moisture - which is by its very nature rather hot. I wouldn't shell out that extra money if I were you.

www.ambrosiadairy.com

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Thanks very much for the info Daniel. That was a really cool answer to read and I learned a few things for sure. – Jack Kronk Jul 20 2011 at 4:30
Yes, excellent answer Daniel! – Rhubarb Jul 20 2011 at 9:41
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Have you tried using raw milk? (Preferably A2).

Milk is recognised to have anabolic properties beyond it's caloric value; which makes perfect sense as it is traditionally used by animals for their fast growing young.

And raw milk is natural and completely unprocessed. It's very much a whole food. If you haven't tried it I'd certainly try it for a month and see what results you get.

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Hi Rhubarb, yes we drink raw milk. That's what we make the whey from. But we don't drink very much of it because it's $8 for a half gallon. So at $16 a gallon, GOMAD would be like $500 a month. Besides I don't want to drink a GOMAD anyway. – Jack Kronk Jul 20 2011 at 14:11
I'm not necessarily advocating GOMAD. And whey protein may have its uses, but too me whey protein is like eating egg whites and tossing the yolks. If one wants to experiment with dairy protein I think they can have excellent results by consuming about 1 quart/litre of raw milk each day and eating the rest of their protein requirements. That would be about $125 per month. – Rhubarb Jul 23 2011 at 3:59
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According to this USDA source; http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/102 , there is 2 grams of protein in 1 cup of unprocessed liquid whey. There are also maannnyyy other nutrients.

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for professional athletes we recommend concentrated BCCA and egg white smoothies in coconut manna and raw heavy cream. Far better way to build muscle and increase recovery than whey.

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why not the yolks too? – Jeff Mar 2 2011 at 4:56
hm, going to try this, but like jeff says, I don't see a reason to cut out the yolk. – oliverh Mar 2 2011 at 6:56
coconut manna and raw heavy cream? what about the extra fat content there. that's good for a post workout drink? i thought it was supposed to be carbs and protein. – Jack Kronk Mar 2 2011 at 15:44
raw heavy cream can also be very pricey. Also, do u recommend raw egg whites or egg white powders? – henrydrn Aug 31 at 0:19
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Can anyone answer the original question? I too would like to know not how much protein is in milk, but rather, once the raw liquid whey has been separated, what is the protein content of that?

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http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/102/2

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http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/09/biochemical-magic-of-raw-milk-and-other.html

I just stumbled across this page researching whey and Chris Masterjohn mentions Whey Cool here.

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I haven't tried raw liquid whey, but I do use a cold processed whey powder made from grass fed cows on an Amish farm - which uses no heat in processing. Only 3 ingredients, so very clean. From what I hear this is the next best thing, although it looks like the dried powder has more protein content - which is what I want.

The raw liquid whey has amazing health benefits, beyond muscle building, so if you can drink it I personally would just for the amazing immune system benefits. The cold processed whey powder is a good balance though since it's more convenient, retains the immune benefits of liquid whey and has a high protein content.

I also use raw goat milk, raw eggs and some fish for daily protein.

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