There's an interesting history of female shaving over on The Straight Dope http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/625/who-decided-women-should-shave-their-legs-and-underarms Shaving of underarms and legs is apparently a quite recent (1915) development and started by advertisers who saw a large potential market for their products.

Aside from the whole waste of time issue - a big one for me - I refuse to be a patsy and hand my hard earned money to some clever marketers. (Who apparently didn't feel it worthwhile to target the men, probably because they were men and had NO intention of shaving their legs or pits!) My great grandmother and any prior women in my line never shaved; why should I suddenly find it necessary?

Honestly, I've always thought shaving underarms and legs to be totally bizarre. I have done it, especially as a teenager, but I rarely do it now. It has never impeded my ability to attract men, except for possibly weeding out the types I'm not interested in anyway. I do find that underarm hair will hang on to smell even when washed with soap, and if I'm going to be in a very sensitive situation, I'll shave for that reason. But it's pragmatic, a concession to the culture I live in.

Having social conventions about stuff is a normal human thing, even the pressure to conform to beauty ideals. It is what it is. But it's also normal for some people to not go along with all social conventions. I call them "outliers." I think that's how new tribes were formed way back when--someone would come along in the tribe who didn't march to the same drumbeat as everyone else, couldn't understand why everyone else lived the way they did and they'd set themselves completely at odds with their people, and eventually they'd get kicked out. If they were lucky they got to take a few friends along. Bingo. More diversity in human social groups.

But. I don't buy the argument that women should go along and shave because it's Paleo to go along with social conventions. So it's a social convention in the United States for women to be nearly hairless. (What's next, compulsory baldness?) But may I point out that strictly speaking, this is not a tribe. It's an artificial construct imposed on people who may or may not want to be a part of it, but who have nowhere else to go because nation-states are EVERYWHERE now. We're living in a very unnatural social arrangement now, mostly among people we don't know (also unnatural) who impose their will on us when they don't even know us. Most of you might not notice that if you've had the same neighbors and co-workers and romantic partners for the past 5-10 years, but in my particular life situation I notice it VERY much--and neighbors, workers, and romantic partners are not family or tribe, anyway. (When was the last time you called your mom?)

So in that context, hell, we're already not in a Paleo situation. The good news is that outliers aren't kicked out anymore unless they actually break a law. So it is not like anyone is going to throw you in jail for not shaving your legs. (Yet. It's looking like a few nuts in Georgia want to jail or execute women for having periods, though.) The worst you have to face is social harassment, if that.

In the past several years I quit bothering with shaving because not only did anyone around me care whether I did or not, but I was pretty broke and guys may not realize this, but on top of women having to shave larger areas of the body, our razors are also more expensive. I finally got smart and just bought guy razors, of course. It's the same thing, it's just blue instead of pink. But I'm still not OCD about the hair removal. I keep up with it in my pits because stubble in that area is just not fun. I might care more in the summer IF I wear shorts, but even then I'm usually in jeans.

But my feeling about any potential boyfriends is, again, it's MY body and if they're going to have a problem with my amount of hair I don't think I want them in a position of potentially making any life decisions of actual importance to me either.

I've dated guys of many different configurations of body hair. I used to think back hair would gross me out. Turns out that if I'm attracted to the guy anyway, the back hair doesn't matter. I don't care if he's balding either. But I don't go for a guy just for his looks, and I've always been flexible about those. I'm not shopping for an accessory. I want the type of relationship with someone where if I were to get into a plane crash and get my face burned off (warning: Mormon blogger, if that bothers you), he'd stick around. If he's gonna get into a snit about body hair, I can't trust him to do that.

It's really more about character than about period re-enactment, I think.

I think body hair on women in unbecoming. I know it's because of social conditioning, but I'm a product of my society. I don't think that's necessarily not paleo.

To definitivley answer your question: As an American, westernized, paleo guy, I am not able (or willing) to look past the conditioning to which I have been subjected. Body hair, to me, signifies dirt, odor, and overall poor grooming habits.

This is just my opinion, though. To each their own.

I think, for the ladies, leg hair and pit hair has got to go. Too manly. Ain't nothin like super silky legs. But hair elsewhere (eh-hem) is A-Okay.

For guys, stay clean and smellin good, and a little hair is usually fine with most girls, especially if you're a stud. If you look like a gorilla, and she likes it, fantastic. If you look like a gorilla, and she hates it, at least consider satisfying her wishes too, as she does for you by keeping well groomed.

I can't believe I am going to post this. lol!

Cheers

Grooming is as old as humans and completely cultural. I think now that the world is more global, grooming preferences are becoming more individual based on personal preference rather than just societal conditioning. To each his/her own! (my personal preference for men is the less hair the better--embrace the bald! For women i think healthy skin and muscle tone is better shown off sans hair.) I think I would be strong enough to not shave my legs/pits despite friend's comments if I wanted to in a similar fashion as avoiding SAD food fare during social gatherings and resisting that pressure. Choosing your nutrition to best suit yourself as opposed to society should help with the resolve to choose your grooming habits to best suit yourself as opposed to society. However, I am not sure how well that would go over with a partner who may have a certain idea of attractiveness. Meaning I couldn't care less what society thinks, but I doubt my hubby would think hairy legs are as sexy as bare ones. He would deal with it because he's awesome like that, but luckily I love the feeling of smoothness too.

I mean if you're into the whole Paleo re-enactment thing, go for the hairy pits and legs, by all means. Yes, it is a social convention and all. All Paleo people have their aesthetic social conventions--look at all the various HnG peoples that pierce, tattoo, brand, stretch or engage in various other body mods. Women shaving is pretty tame compared to what many real Paleo people do.

It is worth noting that clothes are also a post-Paleo invention (at least outside of the spring and summer in the temperate zone and year round in the tropics). So you could go naked while you're at it.

It is your body, do what makes you comfortable. There are plenty of guys and gals that don't really care (and they're probably mostly in France).

I'm all about the supernormal stimulus. Give me over-the-top hairiness or the "full Telly Savalas" and I'm happy as a clam. So to speak.

As a woman, I just don't feel comfortable being hairy. I don't feel feminine if I have hairy legs and armpits. I'm sure that is some kind of deep seeded societal/cultural pressure that females have impressed upon them but it is what it is. The bottom line I think is that if you are comfortable with it and you don't care what other people think, then go ahead and don't shave. I don't know really any men that find hairy women attractive though so if that is important to you, that will be an issue and possibly a deal breaker.

I agree with hcantrall - I don't feel as feminine if I'm wooly. But I'm not one of those lucky women who only sprouts a bit of peach fuzz if she loses her razor. Still - I REALLY hate shaving, which is why I recently bought a couple Groupons for laser hair removal. It may be shamefully modern, but I LOVE that I will never have to shave my armpits or wax my bikini line again.

If you really want to try a summer without shaving, France is a good place to give it a try, because there isn't all that pressure to be hairless (I'm not sure how bad it is in England compared to the US though). But don't be hard on yourself; if you still want to shave, that doesn't make you un-feminist or less of a cave-gal. I guess I'm a product of social pressure; I get waxed, I get embarassed if I'm at the gym and realize I haven't shaved the legs or pits in a few days, etc. My mom is from Germany and doesn't shave in the cooler months unless she's getting ready for a cruise, and she's not obsessive about the upkeep in the summer. My dad apparently finds this awesome; he would never even buy me and my sis shave gel when we were growing up because he just doesn't believe in leg-shaving. I'm just not as progressive as my parents, and that's ok!

well, im armenian and live in the united states so i spend a lot of time on hair removal! honestly, just because its the style. i dont go nuts- i wax my lower legs and bikini line in summer (i like at the beach) and shave my armpits. in winter, i just shave my legs and underarms when i think to do it. my husband doenst really care either way. i got a brazilian a couple of times just to see what it was like and IMHO, for me, it was not worth the time, pain or money. also, kind of creeps me out that i looked like i was 10 years old. i would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get laser hair removal someday. i do feel better when ive shaved my legs and underarms, but if theres stubble i dont kill myself over it. fashions change and style comes and go. who knows what kind of nonsense my daughter is going to have to deal with. i hate seeing younger and younger women obsessing about body hair, but it is what it is, i guess....

I do whatever I feel like. Not because Paleo tells me. It's because I like myself too much to obey when it's inconvenient. I have very sensitive skin, and even though just after shaving it's a nice feeling, what comes after is a nightmare. I can shave really only with an electric razor, which isn't as sharp (so doesn't irritate the skin) but is never perfectly smooth.

I got used to it so much, that I dont' really care anymore. BUT I do feel self-conscious if it's visible. I would not shave hair because of my lover's demand - it's my body. I make decision based only on my comfort, belief (women's rights to fight the oppression of societal norms and the obsession with female looks). I am lucky that I am a lesbian, who are by nature accepting of the female body as it is, and embracing women's choices about it. I think heterosexual women are too afraid of not fulfilling male needs to really do whatever the feel like.

I like hairy armpits. I like my friends and lovers to have their natural smell and the hair helps with that. Legs I can go either way but the worst is the stubble. My primary partner shaves her legs now but didn't for the first 6 years of our relationship. She says she does it because the smoothness makes her feel sexy. I personally have very little body hair and if I've felt pressure at all it would be to have more. This would be mostly from other men and in a nonsexual context. Though I have known women who have a strong preference towards hairy men. butch/femininity is in how you carry your self not if you have hairy legs/armpits.

WOW...lots to chew on here...I think that all men should shave too. I did it in my bodybuilding days and there is nothing like a muscular, 200 lb. bulging man to drape his legs over the side of the tub and lather up, razor off and feel "pretty" for the first time in his life. Most women I have met enjoy the sensual part of love more than the men. We men are all about, wham bam thank you mam. Women enjoy the touch, feel and sight of sex more than us "Mr. EverReadys." Rub your bare abs and you will feel what women feel, everything. No hair to dull the sensation. Rub your head of hair and you now know what we hairy men feel as we move over your bodies...our own hair. That's why we want to get to the act quickly so we can FEEL something. If all men shaved, we would extend foreplay. I propose we role reverse. Men shave, women don't. Then do it on a bear skin rug and get the best of both worlds.

Personally, I find body hair ridiculously hideous, and know of nobody that would think otherwise.

I shave my legs during summer. Why? Social pressure. Around here its just not the done thing for women to go around with hairy legs. I haven't shaved my pits in years, but I have't been brave enough yet to skip the leg-shaving, at least in summer.

It seems hairlessness is an important quality in picking a mate these days. I don't know any women who love running their hands through a carpet of back hair. Is there some evolutionary reason? Maybe you're faster without hair? A lot of it is social pressure, but perhaps it goes deeper. People are becoming naturally less furry even withour the waxing, lazer shaving and plucking.

I trim my pits and leg hairs if the landscape is getting 'manly'. I don't feel like I need to be hairless - that look I will never understand, but I also feel like some landscaping is appropriate. Just like I don't feel my yard shouldn't be mowed, trimmed, neat, I don't think the hair-scape should be running wild. I think it's about finding a nice compromise. That hair serves a biological purpose. Find a balance between that an aesthetics. In the end, it is YOUR body and you have to enjoy it and be comfortable in it. Do what you want, not what society or significant other/etc deem is 'proper'.

Louisa,

For what it's worth, I have quite a lot of books with lots of pictures of African hunter-gatherers and also pastoralist and horticulturalist (I have a life long interest in Africa). And there is a lot of shaving or hairpicking going on!! Legs, armpits and even intimate zones too, both male and female do it.

And on another level, why would you not shave (besides being practical), if that seems to be the social norm? Is there a health reason?

I like to be contrary to the main social conventions if I think I have a good reason (diet, barefoot, no television, ...). But I am not a contrarian for just being one.

I think the same goes for hair and shaving. Following social convention can be easy, and if there's no real reason to do otherwise, why would you?

(btw, I'm a man and don't shave, exepct my head, because I'm rather hairless in that area...)

I have a real hard time understanding the ultra strict paleo folks. IF you want to go all out, you shouldn't be on your computer chatting with folks from around the world. Don't be afraid to take a shower! You won't die sooner or get cancer from it. I promise.

As a woman, I go thru phases of shaving and not shaving. Although I've got dark hair, my leg hair has always been blonde and thin, so I haven't shaved them in 10 years! Sometimes I'll let my armpits grow out- it makes me feel strong, in a way- but if I start to feel unsexy, I shave them. (it's also a great filter for men- if theyre not into me because of my armpits, I feel like I'm saving time!) Ultimately, I think it's about how it makes you feel- in the same way clothing or jewelry does.

Hair on my legs and pits bothers me because I don't like how it feels. I also get ingrown hairs if I don't shave for a while. Add to that I have very dark leg hairs, so it's obvious when I haven't shaved in a couple days. It's not that the hair grows fast, it's just so dark you can tell just a couple days after shaving. I am not comfortable showing my legs when I haven't shaved in a while.

On the other hand, I really dislike shaving. The process is a bother and my legs get incredibly dry. I usually shave only when my leg hairs start sticking to my pants or if I get an ingrown hair. It's warming up here in FL, so I'll soon start shaving weekly, right before the weekend starts, so I can enjoy my shorts without feeling uncomfortable.

As some others have mentioned, I plan on getting laser hair removal so I can skip the shaving and still feel comfortable in my own skin. 8)

I like having the freedom to play around with body hair. I tend to not love hairy legs on me (I'm very fair with dark hair) so usually my legs are waxed. But I think hairy underarms are sexy on a woman so I keep mine that way some of the time. I go through varying phases with the bikini too. A lot of the appeal for me is the ability to be different from one month to the next.

I don't think feminism enters into the discussion, but I'm also aware that could just be my hegemony speaking. The beauty industrial complex is a powerful thing indeed.

Slightly reticent to add my two cents, but what the hey. I've had female partners who lived at both ends of the body hair scale, and I've found them all incredibly attractive - I guess that makes me indifferent.

If anything bothers me about either perspective, it's the politicization of the whole thing. I get it, I understand the arguments, but I really question the vehemence with which some people feel they need to state a position, especially considering that we all live with so many other behaviours and habits that contradict the supposed belief system that makes us either grow hair or shave it all off. We are all modern, confused animals that have to live with contradictions and inconsistencies (the ecologist who drives, the paleo dude who drinks beer, the Christian who covets...whatever Christians aren't supposed to covet) - it's when we pick random, isolated things to take a stand on from the huge diversity that makes us human that I think I really start to wonder. Seriously...leg hair is what we're are all about? That's the stance we choose to take in the world? We do that while, at the same time, caring enough about how we look to dress well, get our hair cut, work out, lose weight - how are any of these other things giving in to societal pressure any less?

Personally, I try to do what feels right for me, inconsistent with who I'm perceived to be or not. I also try not to care about how it is you choose to be you. To my friends, I'm a gentle, sensitive, ecologically responsible, social-justice oriented guy who likes watching UFC, playing contact sports, and eating a ton of meat. On the grooming side, I shaved my legs one year while cycling competitively and have never turned back, and have expanded my grooming to include other regions (ahem). Shaving or trimming isn't about caring what you think or accepting/rejecting a political stance, it's about what I simply have come to prefer, for reasons I could never explain. I like the way I "look, feel, and perform" and don't care if I don't fit into any one particular box.

We're all so incredibly complex that I think it's disingenuous to claim that a body part or grooming practice represents a higher ideal without acknowledging the totality of how we live our lives.

It's shaving, you talk like that razor's cutting your wrists instead of your leg hair. Fighting for the side of hairy ladies is not going to get guys who don't like hairy ladies to agree with you, it's just going to make them dislike you. And doling out +s and -s after asking for peoples' opinions makes you an a-hole. The answer isn't "We should both be hairy - yay nature!" or "Women are treated unfairly, let's give them this one!" or "I like my girls smooth cause I'm a pig and don't know no better!", it's a personal issue so decide for yourself. For me, like Robb Wolf says about alcohol, it's all about maximizing your sex life...

I got exciteed when I first srated growing leg hair. Otherwise I never paid any gread attention to this women's body hair issue (and hence my own body-hair) until I started realizing how big a deal it is in our society. If it wasn't for the societal norm, I would probably be fully accepting and appreciating of my body hair. So how is it in reality? Deep inside, I still want to keep my body hair where it wants to grow, but I no longer can fully appreciate the sight of it as before. My mind just starts playing the tape; "Smooth is sexy", "Shave and groom yourself!", "That's gross", "You must be a feminist and hate men", "You'll be alone for the rest of your life", "Disgusting and manly on women", "Come on, women should shave (to be accepted), it can't be that hard, just pick the razor" "You won't be as successful in life with that dark body-hair" etc.

In short, I am in a situation where I do not shave and do not reveal my body hair in most situations although it might be uncomfortably hot with fully covering clothing.

It's the leg hair that I mostly hide. I've decided to trim my armpits just because it's more comfy that way when they are sweaty.

yes, I am so ridiculously concerned with what others think of me. Survival instinct? How to get over it, anyone knows?

Question to women who shave their legs during hot the season and leave them alone in winter months; Have you noticed any difference in the thickness, shape, or something else of your leg hair when you see them grow back to their full length? Observing my mother's unshaved legs, I get the feeling that the hair loses its sense of direction and pokes aimlessly every way.

I shave my pits because I find it uncomfortable not to, it pinches! Everything else though I leave pretty much as is. If someone has an issue about it, maybe they should stop staring at my legs!

I'm also of northern European descent, so my hair is very fine and blonde. No one notices about my legs.

I think it has zero to do with being Paleo and everything to do with what you want to do. If one is in the re-enacting school of thought, they might want to consider cutting the hair on their heads with a sharp rock and getting a uni-brow. Being a product of my society, I personally find armpit and leg hair extraordinarly off-putting and unattractive.

There are lots of comments here denigrating men for being attracted to their culture's vision of beauty. Well, many parts of the world and in many times in world history, people consider(ed) womanly figures attractive that we would consider obese in today's western societies. I've read that an Northern European woman in the 17th century was considered attractive if she had "a bosom that could fill a barrel and a bottom that could fill a bathtub." Should we today have to consider that attractive, or should we be allowed our own definition of beauty?

I personally can think of a number of areas on the human body that ought to have no hair.

I usually just let my leg hair go for a while, but there is one thing that always makes me reach for the razor:

Whenever it's long enough that it starts waving in the breeze, making me feel as if I'm walking through a grassy field, I mow it immediately. At times it feels ticklish and at others it's just plain annoying. I don't know how others put up with long leg hair that constantly brushes against their legs.