Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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My limited understanding of human anatomy is that we have wisdom teeth and an appendix, which enabled us to cope with eating and digesting a diet which included a much higher intake of roughage, fibre (plants and tree bark) than Paleo followers recommend - am I missing something?

flag	asked Mar 21 2011 at 23:31 DudleyP 956●3●7

Dana · Answer 1 · 2011-03-22 00:09:00Z UTC

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The term "vestigal" means, in practice, "We have no idea what this does, so we have decided it's not important, since clearly we know more about the human body than Nature does."

Look into Weston Price's work. The Paleo movement is already aware that human beings have shrunk in stature and cranial capacity (brain size) since the advent of agriculture. Stands to reason that populations in which wisdom teeth are "vestigal" are populations which have been damaged by that agriculture.

I mean, probably, in a pinch, you could live without about half your teeth. Does that make half your teeth vestigal?

answered Mar 22 2011 at 0:09

Dana
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Well, you have a hypothesis: that agriculture generated the vestigiality of wisdom teeth. Unfortunately, it doesn't pan out, since populations with long histories of agriculture still get them and populations relatively less close to agriculture have lost them. Also, you seem to be implying that there's no such thing as vestigiality; could you explain everything on the wiki by an appeal to agriculture or would you accept that evolution produces transitional forms? – pfw Mar 22 2011 at 0:12

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Weston Price's work is adequate explanation for me. People on good diets have more broad and generally better dental structure, in which wisdom teeth fit perfectly fine. – free3337 Mar 22 2011 at 3:40

What about the people that don't get wisdom teeth at all? Genetic drift and a total lack of selective pressure has allowed human populations to survive without wisdom teeth, so the genes that cause them to come in are turned off in some people. This has absolutely zero to do with agriculture: African agriculturalists almost always get their wisdom teeth while new world agriculturalists almost never do. Price's work is about the effects of gross malnutrition on dental structure in individuals, not the effects of genetic drift over populations; it says nothing about the genetics of wisdom teeth. – pfw Mar 22 2011 at 12:59

pfw · Answer 2 · 2011-03-21 23:53:34Z UTC

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Why would the appendix help with roughage? It's not digestively useful; it seems to serve as a repository of bowel bacteria and do little else. Wisdom teeth have actually disappeared from some human populations (see here) and in any case also appear vestigal - they don't actually really help you chew roughage if they come in. The rest of your body isn't particularly set up for digesting fiber in any event, so having more teeth would be of dubious benefit.

For more info on human vestigiality (you happened to pick two examples), check out the wiki. Evolution is always a work in progress and there's plenty of random bits on our bodies which don't serve any useful purpose.

answered Mar 21 2011 at 23:53

pfw
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	Interesting you mention some human populations have lost their wisdom teeth - I was informed by dentist that I don't actually have any after having an X-ray some years ago – matt Mar 22 2011 at 8:43
	the body does have a number of vestigial organs of which I am also aware - the coccyx, tonsils and ear muscles amongst many - none of these are directly connected to eating and digestion as I would submit the appendix and wisdom teeth are - my point is that items, which were at one time included in our diets are no longer, and that those items may well have been "un-Paleo" in that they were high carbohydrate (wood bark, plants etc) which Paleo members shun on the premise that the body does not need carbohydrate to survive – DudleyP Mar 22 2011 at 8:50
	...? I'm missing your point. I don't think many people shun wood bark because your body doesn't need carbohydrates. They shun wood bark because there are other, more nutritious foods available. Carbohydrate content is irrelevant. I don't see how any of this relates to the appendix or wisdom teeth. Both are evolutionary remnants, not adaptations with dietary implications. – pfw Mar 22 2011 at 12:50
	My point is this. Given that nature abhors a weakness, why would our Paleo ancestors have wisdom teeth and an appendix, if not to cope with something in their diet which was beneficial to them. If beneficial to them, then by extension to us as well. What have we post-Paleo omitted from our diets which have caused those parts of our anatomy to have fallen into desuetude, and become "evolutionary remnants"? – DudleyP Mar 22 2011 at 17:13
	Your given is false. Nature abhors a vacuum. It doesn't care about vestigial structures in a transitory form. If there is no selective pressure that requires you to have wisdom teeth, and no selective pressure that requires you NOT to have wisdom teeth, then both having and not having wisdom teeth will appear in human populations based on whatever random genetic drift has occurred over time. This is exactly what has occurred, demonstrating that wisdom teeth have become irrelevant to survival over time. – pfw Mar 22 2011 at 17:48

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Paola · Answer 3 · 2011-03-21 23:56:30Z UTC

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According to this logic, giant pandas should eat meat instead of bamboo because they have the canine teeth of a carnivore...

answered Mar 21 2011 at 23:56

Paola
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I think pandas do eat other things in addition to bamboo. – Dana Mar 22 2011 at 0:09

True: only 99% of their diet is bamboo... – Paola Mar 22 2011 at 0:17

pandas are carnivores. – DudleyP Mar 22 2011 at 9:22

Yeah but they're too lethargic to hunt anything because of their bamboo diet... – Simibee Mar 22 2011 at 13:11

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True - makes you wonder what would happen if their keepers snuck a little ground meat into their food. – Simibee Mar 22 2011 at 18:53

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Mrs Y · Answer 4 · 2011-03-25 13:37:35Z UTC

I see wisdom teeth not so much as excess baggage but as possible replacements for back molars that may have been lost due to cavity. I am no scientist and have done no research. I will say though that I had wisdom teeth only on the top, my mother got none at all but my dad had 4. Does that make me a hybrid that went 50/50?

Now my ex-husband is from Malaysia and he has a bit of local native blood plus hokkein chinese. He has 6 toenails on each foot and that is passed on through the females only so my hybrid girl child got it but her male cousins who were hybrids didn't. My x also had 3 sets of teeth which is freaky and he had to have several surgically removed. My girl got one freak extra tooth that never erupted.

So I think we humans are very varied genetically weather we need these extra bits or not. In the short term of evolution these minor localised traits are not significant but in the big picture over a longer evolutionary scale a trait that belongs to a particular group may give that group advantage over an other in a Darwinian survival of the fittest kind of way. Who is to say at some point in the very distant future people with 6 toe nails may be better adapted at driving space ships and are less likely to crash into moons therefore passing on their DNA. But then again these people may be considered sexy and pass on the extra toe nail gene anyway because they have another feature of a beautiful big toothy smile that is more obvious and attractive. So perhaps there are multiple factors in genetic selection not just food and environment.

Carl_Stawicki · Answer 5 · 2011-03-22 00:35:16Z UTC

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Wisdom teeth and the appendix would have killed paleos. My appendix burst and my wisdom teeth where so bad I would have died from not eating or an infection. Modern medical processes and tech saved me.

answered Mar 22 2011 at 0:35

Carl_Stawicki
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A paleo diet from birth would have likely prevented both problems in the first place, right? – Travis Culp♦ Mar 22 2011 at 0:38

I realize that you likely meant impaction for the wisdom teeth instead of what I initially assumed were cavities due to increased cleaning difficulty. – Travis Culp♦ Mar 22 2011 at 0:47

Correct, impacted. I don't see how a paleo diet would have prevented the appendix problem. – Carl_Stawicki Mar 22 2011 at 1:10

a true paleo diet would have been beneficial for the appendix – DudleyP Mar 22 2011 at 9:20

Carl, in Good Calories, Bad Calories, Gary Taubes describes appendicitis as a disease of civilization that is associated with refined grain/sugar consumption. Apparently Dr. Schweitzer spent 30 years in Africa before seeing a single case in the local population, but then started seeing it with increasing frequency as they started adopting European diets. The mechanism, however, is not explained. – Jae Mar 22 2011 at 13:43

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animalcule · Answer 6 · 2011-03-22 01:36:42Z UTC

I've never heard wisdom teeth or appendix mentioned as helpful for a diet higher in roughage.

'Primitive' people with good nutrition had better developed and wider skulls and palates. letting all their teeth +wisdom come in with room to spare. According to Weston A Price, anyway. And somewhat, to archaeologists and anthropologists - there are plenty of ancient hominid and human skulls with wide, roomy jaws and 32 teeth still in them.

My father only has two wisdom teeth, I have three, and all of them are in with no pain and healthy so far (I am 25) as I have a fairly spacious jaw, compared to most people I know. Many of my female friends had to have non-wisdom adult teeth pulled in childhood, because their jaws were so small they would have had impaction and severe crowding if they had all their teeth... something about that seems very wrong to me.

Wisdom teeth and appendix versus Paleo diet

6 Answers