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John Durant and I are coming up with something big and we need your help. What are your favorite resources for getting educated about soybean oil? Blog posts, papers, websites, anything good...

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The paleo community might be too big now to use a first (and second name) basis? Other than Loren, Robb, Mark, Kurt. Well, Stephan too. And maybe some others. Okay, nevermind. – Kamal Apr 1 2011 at 2:19
yeah, but Durant was on the Colbert report :) – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Apr 1 2011 at 2:25
Yeah...that was a sly nudge to link to the video, or the NY Times magazine article. It only partially worked, I see. – Kamal Apr 1 2011 at 2:27
On a unrelated note, does anyone know of videos on the internet of that interview? I can't view the one of the American comedy network since I'm a no-good subhuman Canadian. – Stabby Apr 1 2011 at 2:42
just curious, is this related to the twitter exchange we had a while back about more viable ways to improve nutrition in low-income communities? – rafi Apr 1 2011 at 10:18

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Well just so you know this is going to be a very frustrating fight. For one, if we want to implicate a food we need to observe the deleterious effects of its constituent nutrients. The main reason why soy oil is death is the massive linoleic acid content, so if we pile on the evidence that linoleic acid is bad we will have demonstrated that soy oil is bad, right? Unfortunately the usual infantile response to this approach is an accusation of "nutritionism" where I am taking the deleterious effects of linoleic acid in isolation apart from the "whole food" (yeah soy oil as a whole food, riiiiiiiiiiight). I mean it has some ALA, right? And those massive doses of phytoestrogens are supposedly so good, eh?

So the argument has to be built on the fact that linoleic acid is intrinsically deleterious and that ALA (or the 22 carbon DHA preferably) is obtainable through sources with less linoleic acid like fish and flax. The argument is then valid.

Points of contention: all polyunsaturated fats generate lipoperoxides. Look at Chris Masterjohn's article on PUFAs for that. (precious but perilous, or something to that effect)

Then we have the undeniable fact that linoleic acid is carcinogenic. It triggers gene expression in a cancer-proliferating manner

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20616616 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17134970 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17607361

And some epidemiology to add a bit of weight. http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/158/1/41

So obvious we want to use olive oil, not soy oil.

It is interesting that sometimes omega 6 has a "preventative" role in heart disease (although Masterjohn buries the notion on his blog). Gary Taubes explains in GCBC that it just increases cancer and you can't get heart disease if you get cancer.

It lowers HDL and uses valuable LDL.

Ray Peat has long long articles bashing PUFAs. He is a resource in himself http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturatedfats.shtml

An issue with omega 6 is that massive doses like are found in soy oil cause an omega 3 deficiency in the cells. That is a serious problem to anyone who doesn't like dying. Again, probably check with Chris. His blog is like a nutrition geek's treasure-trove and he hates vegetable oils, rightfully so. Another big problem with omega 6 is that it just sits around being a douchebag in our cells and interferes with thyroid signaling. Thyroid signaling! Yes, I hate being fat and tired, don't you? http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/12/omega-6-linoleic-acid-suppresses.html

This is one of my favorite resources for documenting the effects of omega 6 fats in excess. They have clinical trials, epidemiology, case studies, tons of stuff. Mostly to do with the disequilibrium of fats in the cells but as we know you can't just slug fish oil all day long to try to keep up with your omega 6, since too much omega 3 is bad too. http://omega-6-omega-3-balance.omegaoptimize.com/ Just lots of studies.

All in all I think the best path isn't just to bash soy oil but vegetable oils in general, and soy is the most egregious offender.

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Hmm, can't upvote this twice. Too bad, one will do. – Tim Rangitsch Apr 1 2011 at 2:45
lol, I will check with Chris, since he is my boyfriend. Thanks for the info! – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Apr 1 2011 at 3:03
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nobody likes soybean oil pillow talk – Kamal Apr 1 2011 at 3:06
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I'm sure soybean oil would be a turnoff. Nutrition in general...I dunno. It is his other passion, after all. Melissa, try whispering stuff like "conjugated linoleic acid rich butter increases adiponectin which downregulates hepatic tumor necrosis factor expression, partially alleviating non-alcoholic fatty liver disease" in his ear. No WAPfer could resist that siren song. – Stabby Apr 1 2011 at 3:44
Stubby......you da man. Wish I could have you in my clinic talking to folks about this – The Quilt Apr 1 2011 at 13:06
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This is pretty great: Importance of omega 6/3 ratio, Evolutionary aspects.

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Thanks everyone, this is for a new NYC Paleo event where we are telling Chipotle we don't want a side of soybean oil with our beef.

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I've been hoping someone would take the initiative on something like this. Any suggestions on how to make this more than just an NYC event? – JJ Apr 1 2011 at 14:09
do you have a meetup group in your area? – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Apr 1 2011 at 14:11
I created a meetup everywhere meetup.com/Get-the-soy-out-of-Chipotle – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Apr 1 2011 at 14:22
No, no meetup group. I was thinking of something like a letter-writing campaign for those of us in low-density Paleo areas. I dunno how effective it would be, but I guess it's a start. – JJ Apr 1 2011 at 14:28
You are going after Chipotle!!! Fan-flippin-tastic Melissa. that is one of my favorite places, and I have to avoid their roasted veggies (drenched in soybean oil) and of course their corn shells are drenched in soybean oil. And I have often wondered if their beef steak and barbocoa meat is also soybeanoilized. Please let us know what happens! Bring Chris in there. haha. – Jack Kronk Apr 1 2011 at 15:55
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No link to throw down, but I've read some good stuff by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig on Soybean oil.

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Dr. Bill Lands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgU3cNppzO0&feature=related

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Indeed. I love that old dude. You can see mine was the first comment on that video. – Stabby Apr 1 2011 at 3:17
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in the meantime, heavily padding down the meat with napkins surely mitigates some of the problem, since there's a lot of excess juice on that steak? or does it not work that way

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Today I did a hack within the hack: ordered the "ghetto bowl" w steak at Chipotle. Took about 6 napkins to pad down the sauce from the steak chunks, added in the side of guac. Then I downed a can of Wild Planet sardines in EVOO, and poured the excess fish/evoo onto the steak. Sort of a re-oiling. Tasty too. Judging by the color of the leftover sardine oil in the chipotle container, looks like the new oil flushed out a little more of the Chipotle oil. I still had a bout of mild nausea after this, no clue if its b/c of soybean oil still in there or other factors (e.g. ate faster than typical) – JoeBranca at paleoplusone.com Jun 1 2011 at 22:06

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