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"No species on Earth drinks the milk from another species, except humans (of some agrarian cultures). How did humans survive, even stronger and healthier, before the agrarian revolution?"

I just read this. And asked myself, is this true? I know ants drink the milky substance from lice. Cats drink milk. Also there are stories about animals raised by mothers from a different species.

Do you have some data on animal drinking milk from another species? I want to get clear on this vegan/ vegetarian argument.

There are still new species discovered every year...so what do we know? here is a sneaky answer to this topic. Some animals like seagulls are watched stealing elephants' milk... http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/latest-questions/question/2863/

The second topic. How Humans surived stronger before the agrarian revolution? There were several agrarian revolutions?

One was called the green revolution in the 1960s' where the chemical fertilizers were used massively. Probably she means the agrarian revolution in the paleolithic time. Were the people healthier? A lot of healthy and fit people from India and China who are doing agriculture are very fit and healthy.

Probably she means the big scale agriculture. Such people often support Permaculture and Forest Gerdening. And don't like Big scale Agriculture, even organic. A mixture of hunter gather culture and permaculture is a good utopia for them.

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A lot of cats and dogs are allergic to milk and they wouldn't be drinking it unless a human gave it to them. Cows eat corn but they aren't supposed to and it will eventually kill them. Just because you can find an animal doing something unnatural doesn't mean it's a good thing. – Aisling Sep 14 at 16:46

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If another species had the intelligence to obtain the milk from another animal, they might do it too. The fact is that humans are able to milk other animals and many humans are well nourished by cows' and goats' milk and their by products like cream, butter, ghee etc...

Also, as your question indicates, some animals do drink the milk of other animals in certain scenarios when the mother isn't around or if the mother was killed or whatever while the animal was still very young.

Maybe in 200 years there will be a certain food that many humans are nourished by that virtually nobody eats today in 2011. That doesn't necessarily make that future food a bad choice nutritionally. Vegans' 'argument' there is completely absurd. I won't even get into it.

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the question for me: is there that much difference between eating an animal itself and consuming its 'body fluids'...?

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yep. I remember making a comment just like this on another thread. we can eat the blood drenched meat, but not the milk? – Jack Kronk Apr 12 2011 at 21:45
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to think of it, urine is clearly a waste - we can as well ban blood (masai drink blood of their cows) on this premise of fluid resemblance – gn Apr 12 2011 at 23:37
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mth - my comment about eating the blood is not meant to represent a blanket rule about what to eat. it is simply an example of why asking the question "why do humans drink milk of another animal" is not sound thinking. if someone is allergic to milk, then obviously they shouldn't drink it. – Jack Kronk Apr 13 2011 at 0:32
Yeah how is cutting into and eating muscles any more appropriate than drinking it's milk? – ben61820 Jul 26 2011 at 1:36
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No other species on earth drives cars, or can send racy text messages.... Just because others don't is not a reason for why we should not.

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Driving cars isnt the best example. 2nd biggest cause of death. Your second example was better :P – Jamie Oct 22 at 12:18
Just because we don't do something well doesn't mean it's not an amazing achievement! ;) – CD Oct 22 at 12:28
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While ever popular with cats and dogs, sometimes it's easy to forget how much pigs love their milk and whey. I had no trouble finding an image of a monkey chugging a pint on Google. For scavengers like raccoons, bears, skunks and opossums whatever they find in the can is edible. Any animal would drink cow's milk. All they lack is opportunity and the skill to milk a cow.

Part 2. I have a problem with that statement too. If it is true I'd speculate that it was because they were nomadic scroungers, always on the move looking for anything that was edible.

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Why don't we drink pig milk by the way? Honestly, wonder why – ben61820 Jul 26 2011 at 1:35
interesting question. why ? maybe one day we will.... – oak0y Jul 26 2011 at 10:06
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1] a pig has 12 teats instead of an efficient 4 like all the animals we milk, 2]it's very difficult to bottle feed and care for a litter of 8+ piglets, very different than handling one calf or two lambs/goats 4]they are very close to the ground which makes accessing them difficult 5]they tend to be aggressive when they have a litter... among other reasons. It would be easier to milk most dogs than it would be to milk a pig. Ruminants are really the only way to go! – animalcule Jul 26 2011 at 15:43
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why can we drink the milk of other animals which makes as much sense as eating the animal...shouldnt there be as many meat intolerant as dairy intolerant then?

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I have to say that one part of me has long thought about what you're getting at: how much more "natural" or "species appropriate" is cutting into a cow and eating it's muscles than drinking it's milk? – ben61820 Jul 26 2011 at 1:34
Which was of more importance? I think the milk was, because it was sustainable. And if you use that milk to raise tasty veal, well there's nothing species-inappropriate about that use of milk. – thhq Jul 26 2011 at 2:40
Tell the next vegan you see that you're donating a gallon of 2% milk to the future veal farmers of America. – thhq Jul 26 2011 at 2:46
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Id say yes, definately other animals drink the milk of other species. And of course, they dont need to actually milk it.

All mammals produce milk, including grazing herbivores.

Grazing herbivores are food for hunting carnivores.

I cant see a carnivore turning its nose up at an energy and nutrient source that is an easy to ingest part of a kill, unless it was overtly poisonous. That may be what domestic cats like the stuff so much.

Also carnivorse frequently also eat the stomach, which contains whatever the animal has been eating, which also, like mothering animals, could contain milk (as would the baby animals body/metabolism).

Another mammal, frequently, and in larger quantities? Not that I can think of. But I am not sure why that is relevant to whether its optimal. Dont follow the logic of that argument.

What is that logic by the way?

1) Animals dont do it 2) Humans do

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Its unhealthy.

We could reverse that logic, and conclude that eating horse manure is optimal, smelling each others rectums, or eating anything thats in front of you without consideration for its toxicity, or if u r currently sick. Or throwing up into your childrens mouths. Or eating grains, by chewing on stones. Or biting the heads off our mates.

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Oysters are optimal. You eat the whole animal in a bite or two. You don't even have to chew. – thhq Oct 22 at 14:41
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It's bull**, like you said ants milk aphids for honeydew and some ants ferment leafs and eat that.

Nutrients from nature are natural.

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Natural doesn't always equal optimal. – Dean Jul 26 2011 at 7:50
Optimal doesn't always equal what our ancestors ate. – thhq Oct 22 at 14:44
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Mammalian milk contains similar molecules between species with the primary molecule being lactose. The content of milk between species does have enough variance to make me avoid milk. Namely, casein. It is found in small amounts in human breast milk, consumed by human infants for perhaps 2 years max. After 5 years, our levels of the enzyme lactase begin to fall while the mother cannot produce sufficient milk after 5 years.

To me it seems plausible we are biologically wired to be exposed to only small amount of casein for a short amount of time and our biochemistry evolved in concert with this small, brief exposure to casein.

Here's where I worry.

Cow's milk contains much higher casein because they are a much larger mammal than humans.

Excessive casein in the body can lead to accumulation of metabolic wastes in the form of caseomorphins. These molecules have been observed and measured. Although we cannot determine conclusively what kind of genes they trigger on or off, I'm weary that they might turn on the wrong genes and turn off the right ones.

You can take your chance but I just think it's odd for a 36 year old man to be nursing on a teet. Nursing on the teet of another species at 36 (my age), makes it a far more daunting leap of faith for me.

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I'd go with your stance here. Basically, any mammal is designed to feed off milk until it is grown up enough to be weaned and find other sources of food. Why should humans be different? – andrew Jul 26 2011 at 8:32
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but then how does this explain the fact that many people, even entire cultures, thrive on milk and milk based foods. sure some people have issues with milk, but the correlation factors that would have to be included are incredibly numerous before you could determine causation. so if 'john smith' has digestive problems with cow's milk, it may very well be because 'john smith' personally has other physiological issues that are the cause, and that repairing or addressing those issues would reverse his problem with cow's milk, indicating that it was never actually the milk that was the problem. – Jack Kronk Jul 26 2011 at 15:48
there are so many factors that were not chosen by each person, but by variables that were "out of their hands". stuff like... what was the parents diet like at conception and during pregnancy? did the child breastfeed? what was mama eating during the breasfeeding stage. did mama give the baby soy formula with a bunch of crap in it? (just have a 5 second glance at the back of those formulas in the stores. It's CRIMINAL!) also stuff like... what kind of milk and how is the quality? is it low fat homogenzied ultra pasteurized? – Jack Kronk Jul 26 2011 at 15:53
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i think these questions are paramount to consider before we put cow's milk in the dog house. millions of humans do exceedingly well on quality, whole, healthy, fresh cow's milk. that fact should not be ignored just because millions of other humans have issues with milk because of a multitude of reasons like I mentioned above. – Jack Kronk Jul 26 2011 at 15:55
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"perhaps" is not enough for me. personally, i believe milk and milk products like butter and ghee etc can be part of a healthy diet. – Jack Kronk Jul 26 2011 at 16:27
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Part of the conversation missing here is actually how bad pasteurized milk is, especially for young children and the ridiculous scale on which humans use this form of milk; can even be argued this might be a form of control since it is a very expensive process which leaves farmers at the hands of big produces. Governments make sure, regardless of the lengths farmers or a co-op can go to to make sure of the safety of their raw milk, it is totally illegal to sell raw milk for consumption. Even though I agree that milk is no really designed/ideal for adult humans it is just a pity we have been sold this garbage that raw milk is unsafe and given this diabolically poor product called pasteurized milk.

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I will start eating dairy only when I find some unadulterated raw dairy products then I may experiment.

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I don't think the fact other animals do it or not the point vegans are making, it's the fact the cow doesn't naturally produce milk throughout its whole life span. If I was to lockup a female make her pregnant then just take her baby off her so I could drink her milk then repeat the process over and over again until she does I'd be labelled a monster but its fine to do it to a cow. Who makes the norm and just because it is the norm does that make it right. I'm not saying I want to lock up some chick or anything but who are you to say that one creature is worth more then another.

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