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I have nothing against vegans. I mean, eat the f* what you want to. I don't care, unless you're a friend or family member, but even then I'm not in their face about it. I am not an evangelist, preferring to lead by example. I figure when I get thinner and healthier then that will speak for itself.

But why in the world do I seem to attract all of the vegan weirdos? Does this happen to you, and how do you deal with it? I write two blogs The Nourishing Cook and Eat Fat Lose Fat and the first one gets more traffic. It seems the vegans know about it now and have come out in force to comment on multiple posts, even old ones. These are not even strictly paleo blogs (although I am moving EFLF in that direction, since I am eating paleo).

I know many of you are also bloggers and I would love to hear how to deal with vegan flamers. Not looking to bash vegans please, just wanting actual advice on how to handle vegan comments professionally and tactfully. Upvotes will be given for actual examples and links.

I've had similar experiences in person with people (is it because I live in Portland, Oregon, where many freaks live?) so in person examples would be helpful too!

Here's my latest example of a vegan comment:
"Actually there are many links between animal consumption and increased rates of colon cancer, diabetes, and heart disease just to name a few. Tg as t veg myth book is a crock of sh!t !"

This ironically was on a post about making sauerkraut juice. The recipe in the Nourishing Traditions cookbook (which is what I blog about) calls for liquid whey. They took offense to that, since whey is an animal product. Funny, because this recipe can be made without whey and just salt. I don't think they're interested in the posts, just the flaming.

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just wanted to say, I read your blog and I like it. I started with WAPF too and have migrated over to the Paleo side. Let the haters hate, you're doing good work getting this info out through the intertubez. :-) – Aughra Apr 13 2011 at 19:07
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Refer them to Richard at Free The Animal and let him deal them! – Dave S. Apr 13 2011 at 19:24
Ashley... thanks so much! I'm a recent Paleo convert from WAPF. Just heard about it for the first time at the WAPF conference in November. I knew it would catch me when I heard it but it took me some time to come to terms with it and implement it in my life. – Kim The Nourishing Cook Apr 13 2011 at 23:42
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i send them for a calcium index score and a cardiac crp.......then they come back scared. – The Quilt Apr 14 2011 at 1:52
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Your flamers aren't going to be swayed by pesky things like logic and facts. I'd delete or ignore their comments, for the most part. – JJ Apr 14 2011 at 14:44
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you could do a post on the destructive environmental effects of monoculture grain farming (including organic monoculture grain farming) and how its causing a "dead zone" in the Gulf of Mexico and how 60% of America's topsoil has been depleted since 1960 due to the increase in this kind of farming and how there is no such thing as a vegan because plowing kills numerous animals that live in the soil, not to mention the ones that used to live in the dead zone in the gulf. And while I'm not sure quite how many flies a cow's tail swats in 2 seasons and I'm not sure how many animals die in hay production, I'm pretty sure one big animal dying (instead of many tiny ones) feeds many people for a long time and that animals pooping on the land is good for us all.

Though, I suppose that might just make them even more vehement.

edit: of course, the above ONLY applies if you are eating grass fed and grass finished beef!

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These are good points. I especially like the one about the animals being killed by cultivation. Any links to articles/books on this? – Thomas Seay Apr 13 2011 at 17:29
you know i just read the topsoil figure yesterday and can't remember where... – tartare Apr 13 2011 at 17:50
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tartare... thanks for outlining these points. If I hear someone say ONE MORE TIME that there's not enough land to grow meat for everyone I'm going to scream. These are the same people that think it's great to use our farmland to grow 'fuel' instead of at least feeding us with it. – Kim The Nourishing Cook Apr 13 2011 at 18:40
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fuel, which, i just learned really recently, actually lowers your gas mileage and leaves a residue in your motor. Someone told my husband recently to go to this gas staion where they sell 100% gasoline, and so I looked into it... turns out corn is even bad for your CAR! lol. – tartare Apr 13 2011 at 18:42
tartare... thanks your comment about corn even being bad for your car made me laugh! – Kim The Nourishing Cook Apr 14 2011 at 4:53
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On my blog (www.urgeschmack.de) I use three methods

1) delete if insulting

2) ignore if insignificant

3) ask about credible sources if they make any claims about health issues.

The trolls never come back.

Those who are seriously interested usually reply and so so far I got along very well with all of them. That might be because they keep their eyes open and immediately see that we're actually on the same side when it comes to health or animal welfar - we're just using different approaches.

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Dear Felix. My impression of your website. Is that you put your self quiet in focus and that you could more balance report on health and diet. I dont wanna discus or argue with you on health in such a relation. I once got a paid primer from you on eggs for some buck. And it was knowledge which actually is for free. I feel very tricked by your site. I dont like your style of promoting yourself with the health. If someone enters the public with his person and his face. He is a person of publicity so im my opinion you should be more open for other opinon. I avoid your homepage. – oak0y Apr 13 2011 at 18:33
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Dear oak0y - all knowledge is free. Thanks to the internet. It is not the knowledge you pay for, it is the editing and processing - and that's what was available in the free preview as well. Had you ever filed a complained I would have reimbursed your "some buck" (2.49€). You did not. Thus, I can not help you. I am not sorry. As for the rest of your comment: I don't care a single bit about your views on the world or my blog. But I encourage you to create your own blog and find happy readers who love what you are doing. Cheers. – Gone Apr 14 2011 at 8:53
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I, like you, don't mind what people eat, it's their body, their choice. However if I do happen to have a vegan or vegetarian for that matter try and criticise my animal centric diet for moral reasons I generally roll out the 'Least harm principle'.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/972951/posts

V: "How can you have animals killed for your food. Humans don't need animal in their diet. You're a monster!"

Me: "Well, would you say a field mouse life is worth the same as, say a cows life?"

V: "Yes, of course"

Me: "Well how about a bug, say a cricket or grasshopper, are they worth the same as a field mouse?"

V: "Ahhh...... well, yes."

Me: "So then you'd agree that the bugs life is worth the same as the cows life?"

V: "......... yes."

Me: "Well then I'd suggest you stop eating cereal grains and take up pastured ruminants. Compare all the bugs, mice, birds and other critters which are inadvertently killed for your grain production to the relative few ruminants that I consume, and you my friend, are a monster".

V:.......................................... :0

Or something along those lines...
(Of course this wouldn't work with a raw vegan who doesn't consume grains, but I'm yet to come across one of those who wants to tell me how to eat).

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What if they have a ranking of who's more important that who? Then what's your argument? – Anonymous Coward Apr 17 2011 at 3:36
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Then you remark that they are speciesist.. duh. – sarah-ann Apr 17 2011 at 14:30
What if they embrace that appellation? – Anonymous Coward Apr 18 2011 at 0:37
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Say you are speciesist too and claim that humans are at the top of the food chain. – queen of the stone age Apr 21 2011 at 21:07
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Ah, C'mon.. Throw em' a bone

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preferably in a broth, right?? lol – Kim The Nourishing Cook Apr 13 2011 at 18:01
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I have one regular reader who is a vegetarian, but she's very respectful of me and my diet, as I am of hers. Other than that, none of the veg*an nutjobs have found me yet and if (more likely when) they do, I'll simply moderate my comments. It's my blog, after all! Yes, it would be a huge pain in the tookus, but it will allow me to allow only comments that actually contribute to the conversation - which by no means requires that you agree with me.

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I used to belong to a few writing groups where the problem of flames and trolls would come up. Most of us agreed on something like "This is my house. I'm having an open party. If you start breaking my vases, I'm kicking you out." – WordVixen Apr 13 2011 at 17:15
great analogy thanks wordvixen! – Kim The Nourishing Cook Apr 13 2011 at 18:38
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Why can't we just declare war on vegans and kick their scrawny butts once and for all?!

But seriously, it's the Internet, purportedly the most democratic medium in history, so we have to put up with people we disagree with. However, if they become so nasty that dialog becomes impossible, first ignore them then block them.

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Make them back up everything they say. Do it in a nice manner, almost overly nice, kill em with kindness. Say something along the lines of "I would like this to be a place of open discussion and learning for all, and while I respect your opinion, I would love to see some science that backs it up." Give em homework and I doubt you will see most of them return.

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The problem is, they post crap like Colin Campbell, and then it becomes a game of point-counterpoint where you have to educate them why Campbell is painfully wrong, why lipid hypothesis is wrong etcetc – Stephen-Aegis Apr 17 2011 at 13:06
I usually respond to the inevitable Colin Campbell crap with this link to Free The Animal that contains links to 43 articles that debunk The China Study. Obvious favorites: Masterjohn, Minger and Eades, who uses Campbell's own admission of confirmation bias: freetheanimal.com/2010/07/… – Fred B Apr 22 2011 at 4:12
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Inform them that computers are not vegan. From vegsource.com: "In today's society it is impossible to be totally "free" from animal products. Steel, vinyl, plastics, and rubber all contain animal derivatives. Film, videotapes, musical instruments, and computers all contain some sort of animal product also."

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Downvoted for posting the same lame bit every vegan in the world hears every day. Look, they try. You can't win 'em all. They do the best they can. Faulting their effort for only going part of the way and not the whole is stupid. It would be better if you maybe gave them some serious advise for how to be more consistent. They might even appreciate it. – Anonymous Coward Apr 17 2011 at 3:30
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I am offering them advice on how to be more consistent,by pointing out the fact that it's nearly impossible to be free of animal products in modern society.Personally,I prefer live and let live,but they can't seem to abide by that. – bittykitty Apr 18 2011 at 0:24
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“A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing their own opinions.” Proverbs 18:2

If they're 'nasty' and not open do discussion but would rather bite my head off, I'd rather not 'deal with them'. I'll be respectful and go on my merry way. I don't find the need to argue with close-minded people. No one gets anywhere. I'll save my paleo rational for people that aren't so surly (which I think is what the OP is alluding to when she says 'nasty', 'vegan flamers', etc).

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I think it's kind of funny, the whole vegan thing. As my handle suggests I was once a vegan, but at the time I knew F*ck All about nutrition, and most vegans are definetly ignorant in their knowledge of nutrition. It's a ethical decision not a nutrotional one. Alot of people are baffled by my change from vegan to paleo, I just explain that once I began looking into the nutrition I relaized how much the vegan/vegetarian thing was bass ackwards. I still think that if you are concerned with ethics vegan is the best thing in the world, I just decided I would rather eat animals than slowly kill myself. Low fat + high carb = HELL.

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of nutrition can slam any PETA humping vegan.

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Oh man, I had the honor of getting my first Twitter troll a couple weeks ago! She was pretty easy to deal with- all the links she sent me were to vegan websites, not very impressive... I did send the girl one post from Mark's Daily Apple, but I'd try to stick with peer-reviewed journal articles. If they're just there for the flaming, maybe just ignore the trolls and they'll get bored and go away.

Anyhoo, here's a good one about heart disease and saturated fat- http://www.ajcn.org/content/91/3/535.abstract

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A couple of political blogs I read have a good solution to the problem of know-it-all jerks, in the case of these blogs, liberals: save the best/funniest posts and put them on your blog for all to see just what pinheads they are. Don't comment on them yourself, just post them. Your readers will probably get a kick out of the more dimwitted ones.

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Don't feel compelled to respond to every comment. If you want to moderate out ad hominem attacks, do so, but you can significantly reduce your effort by simply ignoring many responses that aren't worth your time.

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One of the blogs I read--not nutrition but more along the lines of peak oil and "the long emergency"--gets a fair share of hate mail. He simply keeps a link to "_'s Hate Mail" where he posts it without comment. I don't know if he has received less hate mail since keeping that archive, but it seems like it might be worth a try.

If it's opinion or random ad hominem hooey, ignore it, no response. If responding can become "a teaching moment" for all of your readers, respond with the facts, just the facts. And don't lose sight of the fact that you have the gratitude of many readers who do not write.

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Look I'm all about civil discourse. Really, I am. It is always first choice. But I will NOT back down to anyone trying to push a vegan agenda in the name of their own personal beliefs about what I should and shouldn't eat and why. I will not eat a human person, somebody else's pet (probably wouldn't eat my own pet either), or an endangered species that is illegal to kill (unless of course it means my survival. at that point, it's survival of the fittest baby!). Those are pretty much the only "don't eat" rules I will accept.

But I will always give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they give me a pointed reason not to, even someone who's opinion fiercely opposes mine. Many vegans/vegetarians are nice people that are just misinformed, seriously. There is no reason to 'hate on' vegans any more than there is reason for them to hate on us. If someone wants to say something in disagreement with eating animals and animal derivatives, I am fine with that, so long as their comments are made with good rationale. But the surest way to let anyone control you is to allow their willingness to be unrational and shameless to defeat your desire to remain in balance with the same. Simply put, sometimes you gotta get a lil' indignant to stand up to opposition... the ol "Nice guys finish last" dealio. I am not a mean person, but I am a fighter. Whimps get annihilated.

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Just turn off comments and let them stew in their own stick figures if they get too obnoxious.

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I like bringing up Omega 3 and omega 6 ratios... I'm also a big fan of avoiding food that has the potential to be dangerous ala gluten.

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Throw them in the fire! More meat for the other meat eaters!

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Wrestle them. And I always win even though I only weigh 108 lbs!

Seriously though, ignore, ignore, ignore. Unless you can manage a public witty put-down, I always enjoy those.

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