Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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My question, especially for those of you who know you are allergic to yeast and for those of you who believe you have yeast/candida issues is: Do you react poorly to fermented food? e.g. kombucha, kimchi, sauerkraut, etc. What are your symptoms?

I believe i am allergic to yeast. I have not been tested. Additionally, i may have candida/yeast related issues (if you don't know what i mean by that, ignore it, it's thought by many to be quackery).

I used to crave these things like crazy (still do, actually) but kombucha reeeally messes me up now (kinda like beer does. w/o intoxication, natch). I now suspect kimchi does too, but i'm too scared to do another trial. I ate half a jar over a couple days after abstaining for months, and though i can't pinpoint it as the bad-guy, i'm suspicious.

ANY INPUT WELCOME!

ps. i know this question isn't terribly paleo specific, but this forum seems to be full of some of the most acutely body/food-connection-conscious peeps around. <3

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EDIT: 48 hrs ago I ate some high-quality un-cured, gluten-free, nitrate-free, pastured-beef summer-sausage and had some rather immediate as well as some sneak-attack familiar negative symptoms! Heart rate increase, mood-changes, brief weepiness, brain-fog that lasted at least 24 hrs, and skin stuff (psoriasis-ish). Still unsure if it's allergies or histamines or the yeasts or candida or the leaky-gut or if it's all interconnected and/or the same thing. Anyway: to those with weird intolerances: Beware of sausage!

edited May 12 2011 at 20:09

asked Apr 18 2011 at 2:35

g.
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i think when you have a bad microbiota and/or problems with zonulin you may have bad reactions until the situation reloads. I generally recommend a consistent three week fermented fiber use cycle to see a real change with no dairy reintroduced for a week thereafter. – The Quilt Apr 18 2011 at 20:49

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thanks. ok, so a 3 week fermented fiber use cycle. ok! wait.. whathuh? halp! – g. Apr 18 2011 at 23:35

Half a jar of kim chi is a lot. I think I might react to that much, especially after not having it for a long time. I think it is supposed to be eaten as a condiment or small side dish. – Happy Now Apr 9 at 20:46

@HappyNow It was about half of a 16oz a jar over a period of a few days. So prol like four 2 oz servings? I don't remember exactly, it was so long ago now. I really don't mess with any fermented stuff anymore (alas). – g. Apr 12 at 21:53

Ed · Answer 1 · 2011-04-18 04:22:39Z UTC

When you talk about "yeast issues" and fermented foods you're talking apples vs. oranges.

Pathogenic yeast are most commonly candida albicans, which are not common food fermentation organisms.

Brewer's yeast is usually saccharomyces, not candida.

Sauerkraut is mainly a product of fermentation by bacteria rather than yeast.

Kombucha is fermented by SCOBY, or symbiotic colonies of bacteria and yeast.

Kimchi also contains a variety of species of bacteria and yeast, and candida species are among them. However, since kimchi juice is sometimes used to treat candida, I'll wager that candida albicans is not predominant in kimchi.

In summary, if you're sensitive to beer, kombucha and kimchi, you may be allergic to saccharomyces yeast, or it may not be an allergy at all. This is probably unrelated to "yeast issues", which are allegedly an intestinal yeast infection caused by candida species.

Matt · Answer 2 · 2011-04-18 08:07:44Z UTC

I struggle with fermented foods, and a get a pretty consistent reaction of extreme brain fog, increased salivating and cravings somewhat, anxiety and insomnia.

Despite these foods being powerhouses of nutrition I suspect for the unlucky some with gut dysbiosis, you can end up with an 'over fermentation' situation, so fermented foods can be akin to putting petrol on the fire.

Then there are certain compounds in fermented foods that are super high, such as histamine and amines.

I'm still trying to work out how to negotiate this problem to achieve some gut healing. I guess one might have to rely on a high quality hypoallergenic capsulated probiotic and anything else that can help address the balance.

The good news is, once you've done some healing is that many or most can then re-introduce and benefit from fermented foods. But in the meantime for myself, it is kind of a circular problem - the gut dysbiosis is causing an allergic reaction to the very things needed to heal.

Good luck!

air_hadoken · Answer 3 · 2012-02-23 21:52:40Z UTC

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Histamine intolerance is a possible cause you could consider based on the limited details you provide.

Fermented foods contain histamine.

We have an enzyme that breaks down histaime in foods that we eat and the vast majority eat these foods with no effects. However a small number of people do not produce enough of this enzyme to break down the histamine fast enough. These people can suffer allergy like symptoms after consuming histamine containing foods.

Jamine Scott of That Paleo Guy blog has a recent extensive post on the subject of Histamine Intolerance. There are far more details there than could be included in an answer here.

This is just something you might want to think about.

edited Feb 23 2012 at 21:52

air_hadoken

answered Apr 18 2011 at 9:08

Matt
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thanks, i'm off to check it out! – g. Apr 18 2011 at 16:47

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I was just diagnosed with food-induced histaminosis. It definitely could be a histamine issue. I wouldn't use meds to deal with it though. I was told that taking antihistamines may only acerbate the issue, as certain medications (including certain antihistamines) can affect the production of the DAO enzyme which is responsible for "dealing" with the histamine. – Primal Mama May 12 2011 at 20:47

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thanks, fascinating!! who diagnosed you, and what did they tell you to do? can something be done to raise DAO? – g. May 12 2011 at 21:50

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There is a group of doctors (which includes allergists, digestive specialists and biochemists) here (in Spain) that diagnose and treat it. I just got my test results back last week and had my appt last night. It's a long story but my symptoms IBS, eczema, congestion/runny nose, bloating went away initially went away eating paleo but then after a while I began having symptoms intermittently (despite not eating dairy and wheat) and couldn't figure out why. Personally, I think it all goes back to an uncured leaky gut but I still have a lot of experimenting and researching to do. Good luck! – Primal Mama May 13 2011 at 7:30

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thank you - good luck to you, too! – g. May 13 2011 at 15:53

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Primal Mama · Answer 4 · 2011-04-18 07:19:43Z UTC

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A nutritionist friend had a strong suspicion that I had candida but testing came back negative for candida and positive for leaky gut. Intestinal permeability could be the reason why you are reacting to these foods. A lot of the symptoms for candida and leaky guy are quite similar.

answered Apr 18 2011 at 7:19

Primal Mama
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thanks! yes, i strongly suspect i have a leaky gut, (hence extreme gluten intolerance). working on it. also it's my understanding that if you buy into the candida thing, it can be a factor in causing leaky gut. i'm curious what kind of test was done for candida. are you following any protocol to decrease permeability? (aside from presumably eating paleo..) – g. Apr 18 2011 at 16:54

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Besides from Paleo I'm not following any specific protocol but I'm looking into things as paleo alone hasn't been enough it seems-I think there may be a histamine component.... – Primal Mama Apr 24 2011 at 17:42

Linilla · Answer 5 · 2011-07-31 23:34:48Z UTC

I am allergic to both baker's yeast and brewer's yeast. Recently I tried a supplement of the probiotic saccharomyces boulardii on a physician's recommendation (to treat a chronic digestive problem). It made me itch like crazy!

Just now I found this page because I had a similar reaction to kimchee. Here I read that kimchee has saccharomyces, so that explains the itching.

So I thank the writer who explained this. By the way, both my yeast allergies have been confirmed by skin testing at least twice over the years.

Victoria LaFont · Answer 6 · 2013-03-05 00:51:27Z UTC

Hi, I'm totally new to this forum and came across it by looking for folks' reactions to fermented foods. I have some clients that cannot tolerate them, and I'm looking for more info as to why. I am a GAPS Practitioner, and love love love the protocol, but every body is different. Thanks!

Tammy · Answer 7 · 2013-04-09 20:00:34Z UTC

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I am new to this forum, as well. I have a problem consuming anything fermented. I get terribly itchy, like having a yeast infection. Probiotics help some, but not completely. I can't have kombucha, kefir, alcohol, anything fermented really. I'm trying to figure out what is going on and what I can do about it. I don't have any other reaction that I'm aware of. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

answered Apr 9 at 20:00

Tammy
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It's been 2 years since my post, and I don't really have answers. I strictly avoid beer, kombucha, most vinegar, kefir, (yogurt is ok) kimchi, aged cheeses, and any food that has yeast as a flavoring agent. Some wine seems better than others.. if i start feeling weird after half a glass, I stop. I don't seem to have a problem with clear liquor (mixed with club soda or something) for social occasions. I wish there was a solution besides avoidance, but I'm just so grateful to have figured some of the major offenders for me. I was really unwell for years; I feel so much better now. – g. Apr 12 at 21:51

Lucy · Answer 8 · 2013-01-24 05:03:43Z UTC

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urethane... that might be your and my problem from fermented food (cheese, yogurt, sauerkraut, wine, soy sauce, etc) http://www.live-in-green.com/health_info/problematic_food/carcinogenic/fermented.html

answered Jan 24 at 5:03

Lucy
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Kim · Answer 9 · 2013-02-18 13:32:29Z UTC

http://www.drlwilson.com/ARTICLES/FERMENTS.htm

Was looking for information on fermenting and came across your page and the link above. Be sure to click and read the article he linked called "Aldehyde Toxicity From Fermented Foods", as it describes some of the symptoms I've seen others describe.

Do you react badly to fermented food? Is yeast a factor?

9 Answers