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Kim Smith of NZ is an elite marathoner whose goal was to win the Boston marathon in record time. Would you ever want to have the physique of her? She looks like a stick figure vegan that we see a lot of.

Story is here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/4903689/Painful-end-for-Kimberly-Smith-in-Boston-Marathon

This relates directly to the thread about paleo and running here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/33314/cross-country-running-and-paleo#axzz1JuNiAY92

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100 meter Sprinter Usain Bolt. Looks like a guy that is going to live a long time with long telomeres.

Chris Johnson, running back, Tennessee Titans, 4.2 secs for 40 yards. Fastest runner in the NFL. Fastest sprinter also.

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For balance as asked for by poster Payam...Mirinda Carfrae, Iron Man Champion. She looks a little spindly to me. How long are her telomeres? Only time will tell.

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Chrissie Wellington Iron Man Record Setter.

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http://lh5.ggpht.com/_i44vJs_uNB8/SPOG2YXcP-I/AAAAAAAABmE/qduOeDeuAbA/IMG_1157.JPG

To be an elite runner, with all the training miles, do they all have to look a bit undernourished? Or do the two Ironman ladies look like what our ancesters looked like before the invention of agriculture? and the invention of dwarf wheat ground into flour?

And just for Payam, I put up this guy. Don't know who he is, but I expect he is a marathoner. Long telomeres in a marathoner? What do you think ladies? Long telomeres in a potential?

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/sports/othersports/20waitz.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

And finally, Marathoner, Grete Waitz, the splendid Norwegian runner who set a world mark in her first marathon, in New York City in 1978, died of cancer on Tuesday in Oslo. She was 57. She was an elite runner all her life. How long were her telomeres. Did she shorten them by running? Lots of people die of cancer every day. But did running cause her life to be shortened. We will never know. But one would think that elite athletes are the epitome of health. Maybe true...maybe not.

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You're baiting me are you not? Now post a pic of Bolt or of Chris Johnson. Balance and fairness. LOL – The Quilt Apr 18 2011 at 20:57
To Ron or Don or Dick, Kim may be just a stick, but she's my girl. What the hell, she's my girl, and I LOOOOOVE HER. (slightly altered rendition of a Tom Lehrer song) – Thomas Seay Apr 18 2011 at 21:23
i love how in your edit of your original post you still cherry picked 2 of the 6 athletes i named lol! tosic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/… 3.bp.blogspot.com/_0qz7CE6-ZeA/R-gINK3MI1I/… – Payam Apr 19 2011 at 21:14

21 Answers

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I rather look like Serena Williams.

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My god is there a lot of unfocused rage at running here. It's also shockingly ignorant. Distance running has been shown to increase telomere length in more than one study, while sprinting and weight training have not. In fact older people putting in an average of 50 miles / week prevent 75% of normal age-related telomere shortening.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/phys-ed-how-exercising-keeps-your-cells-young/

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Nearley all types of professional sports are bad for your body in the long term. Whether a pro sprinter or marathon runner, they are all doing damage to their bodies. Attaining such a peak level of fitness (not health)is done through vigorous and frequent training. Paleo lifestyle is about health and longevity. Not about wearing down your body for "performance" or maximal "fitness". Remember there is a difference between health and fitness, as Dr. Doug McGuff states.

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The hate on distance running is getting ridiculous in the paleoworld.

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The question wasn't about "running" or "running a marathon". It was about being an ELITE distance runner. Big, big, big difference.

ELITE runners are self-selecting by their genes, not by their desires. If you have the correct body makeup (meaning, you chose the right parents) to be successful as a competitive marathon runner AND you also train like hell, you can do it. If you don't have the body makeup and you still train like hell, you could be what they call "sub-elite" which means you could win local races and the like.

This says NOTHING about damage that may be done or your career's longevity.

All it says is that 99% of folks are not "allowed" to choose to be an elite marathoner. Those of us who like running but failed the light&lean lottery definitely can get wistful when seeing the genetically gifted sail through a race, longevity hindrances or no.

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Way before my paleo/primal days, I enjoyed sprinting the most. It's still my favorite. I'm not much on marathoning. A 5K is about the limit of my interest in distance running.

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OMG this is complete insanity.

marathon + 99 miles in 29 hours

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His telomeres are practically gone after that. Seriously though, that was totally amazing. Say what you will about endurance running, but pulling that off is just ridiculous. Especially on your first try?? – RG73 Apr 22 2011 at 2:13
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That is completely crazy. He's lucky he didn't drop dead. – Chickenosaurus Rex Apr 23 2011 at 1:50
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I have never aspired to be a distance runner. Boring and uncomfortable. Sometimes I run a bit. I bike to get where I need to go (not far).

I will have the OP know that I have the same body type as those marathon runners no matter what (I will say I think I look more filled-out and youthfully pretty than the examples you chose). I have a spindly-armed extra-lean upper body and only gain mass in my hips and legs. I lift heavy, eat primal with tons of calories and about 1g of protein per pound bodyweight, and do very little cardio. I look just like my father.

I would prefer to be a muscular, proportionate person like an elite sprinter, yes. But I always going to be small and thin, the type of body which lends itself very well to distance running since we have so little to carry.

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That's an important point. Weight is a disadvantage if you want to run fast. It's more efficient to be lean (even skinny) if you want to cover long distances. You don't need the bulk, just endurance. – gydle Jun 7 at 9:40
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and again we are going into judging people's health based on their looks. Cherry picking is a very poor way to prove anything.

I had a friend who was into rock climbing (as many other of my friends years ago), he was stick-thin, very tall and you wouldn't say he was athletic even. But he could climb very difficult paths and could do pull ups on his middle fingers only.

Looks can be deceptive. Both directions (too skinny, too muscled-up, too fat, too think etc.)

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When I looked up Crossfit Games winners, the variety of different body types was surprising. Same with marathon runners, same with football wide receivers, etc etc. Definitely hard to assess fitness by looks. I just think judging people based on their looks is built into the human genome, as is looking down on others based on their looks. – Kamal Apr 19 2011 at 3:08
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you're correct to a degree but looks and body composition can and do hold some value. – Jack Kronk Apr 19 2011 at 4:16
btw... i was primarily commenting on yoannah's answer. and Kamal, I agree that we judge people based on their looks. right or wrong, it will never ever go away. – Jack Kronk Apr 19 2011 at 15:35
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I figure if I can run a 5K without wanting to take a dirt nap that's all the endurance running I'll really need. Now sprints and weightlifting, on the other hand - that's the good stuff as far as I'm concerned.

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Anyone here look at Brian MacKenzie. The guy is ripped and does 100 mile ultra-marathons. Granted he doesn't run the mileage others do. He follows Crossfit Endurance. I think there is definitely some more balance with runners.

Also, the Inuit will run 20 to 30 miles with the dog sleds through snow. And they don't look like Vegan sticks. Maybe there's a diet connection. lol

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They all have short telomeres. – RG73 Apr 18 2011 at 23:19
Mackenzie's the man. I think he eats paleo too. – Riveted Apr 19 2011 at 12:39
I'm not sure Mackenzie's diet but he does have some out of the box thinking with the training. I know he's not into carb fueling. The Inuit traditional diet would be Paleo (or very close to it) and very low/no carb. And some of those guys run 20 or 30 miles with the dog sleds. Maybe Paleo Inuit diet is what I should consider. I just have to get myself used to eating all the organ meats. lol – Trevor Apr 30 2011 at 16:12
I don't get the short telomeres angle, RG73. Have these been measured? In repeated experiments? on humans? – gydle Jun 7 at 6:14
RG73 is completely wrong on this. There's a significant amount of research on distance running and telomere length. The results show that aging distance runners have significantly longer telomeres than others their age. well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/… edinformatics.com/news/exercise_and_aging.htm ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/… – Mark Jun 14 at 20:38
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Distance runners are by nature very lean compared to sprinters. You wouldn't want to carry 5 extra pounds in mass for 23 miles, as that would really drag you down. Because my longest distance I ever plan on running would be 10K, I'll take the sprinters body :)

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WTF is up with all the hate on runners. I got the Paleo Evolution and he said that running was useless, caused cancer, male pattern baldness, global warming and the extinction of the dinosaurs.

Running is a critical cross training component for almost all sports.

As for the stick figure people you are posting I agree with the person who said you cherry picked the hell out of them. Go to a marathon yousrself and look at the lead group take off. You might see some Skeletors, but most look very strong and fit.

Many sports put requirements on your body that hurt you long term. Do I want to look like a stick? Uh no, but I also don't want to look like a 350 lbs lineman, or a sumo wrestler either.

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running does not equal marathoning......context!!!! – The Quilt Apr 18 2011 at 22:47
So now running doesn't equal marathoning, but in the other thread it was any running over 400m is going to destroy your telomeres through a mystical mechanism. So running is somewhere between not more than 400 m and a marathon. Unless you're an NFL player, in which case you get short telomeres too. From sprinting. Umm... – RG73 Apr 18 2011 at 23:13
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Running had to be central to the Paleo hunter way of life. But 26 miles! Anytime you get sick and drop from exhaustion and total fatigue like I have seen people do at a marathon finish line, well that don't look like a healthy activity to me. Just my opinion. – Mark V Apr 19 2011 at 1:17
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To be fair, most marathon runners work jobs where they sit much of the time and have questionable eating and sleeping practices. Hunter gatherers that ran long distances (maybe not 26.2 miles, but pretty long) had a bit of an edge there. I can't imagine that being able to run a few miles comfortably is selected against. – Kamal Apr 19 2011 at 1:34
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I'm not a big fan of marathon running as it does not fit my goals, but I have been to many marathons and tri's to support my martial arts buddy who runs them. There are tons of super fit, well proportioned people there. This reminds me of the "everything causes cancer" crowd where no matter what I eat I'm farked and am going to die of tumors from eating brocoli and spinnach... The amount people are stressing over this crap is probably worse for you than running a marathon is... – Lance Apr 21 2011 at 23:48
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From Richard Attenborough's Persistence Hunting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wI-9RJi0Qo

Does his body composition look like he has long telomeres for long life or short telomeres?

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I mean Dr. K could at least attempt to make an evolutionary trade off hypothesis--yes, persistence hunting decreases telomere length (through mystery mechanism), but that decrease in life span is traded off with greater fecundity. Seriously, how many fleet footed African herbivores do you think you're going to spear with craptastic early- to mid-Acheulean hand axe? My guess is zero. Running them to exhaustion, maybe you might eat dinner that day. – RG73 Apr 18 2011 at 23:18
They have been doing it for hundreds of thousand of years by whatever means and tools that were necessary to survive prior to agriculture. The proof is that we are the living proof they were successful. – Dexter Apr 18 2011 at 23:28
longevity.about.com/od/researchandmedicine/p/… It isn't a mystery. It is just science. – Dexter Apr 18 2011 at 23:34
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I'm well aware that telomeres decrease in length with age, just not that they decrease in length in response to distance running. I posted several recent papers in response to Dr. K in another thread demonstrating protective effects of running on telomere length (although the mechanisms there are fuzzy too). That we'd be adapted to do something that kills us sooner doesn't make a lot of evolutionary sense. Therefore, I'm waiting for a definitive paper(s) demonstrating a mechanistic process whereby telomeres get shorter faster via endurance activities. Hand waving doesn't count. – RG73 Apr 19 2011 at 1:01
Its true Southwest Native Americans and Mexican Indian tribes ran down deer. I don't have any statistics on their longevity. – Mark V Apr 19 2011 at 1:09
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This paleo endurance runner is all scrawny. He just ran down a 500-ish pound kudu. That obviously isn't functional muscle he's got at all....

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LOL.......nice assumption there. – The Quilt Apr 18 2011 at 22:46
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Touché!! Touché!! – familygrokumentarian Apr 18 2011 at 22:53
What assumptions did I make Dr. K? – RG73 Apr 18 2011 at 23:08
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I don't aspire to be an elite runner, but I do enjoy running. I have fun running 5Ks with my friends and doing sprint triathlons. I like to push myself to do things that are new to me and challenge my fitness. I don't expect to win any of them. Though I did win 3rd in my age group once, LOL.

I gained weight while training for my first couple 1/2 marathons because I really loved the excuses to eat crap that carb loading gave me.

I've actually found this year that my 5k time has improved now that I'm doing LESS training. I've sped up by a full minute per mile and I attribute that to the fact that my body is not in a constant state of fatigue.

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Your body needs time to recover and that is usually longer than people think. You are on the right track sherpamelissa. Less is more. – Mark V Apr 19 2011 at 1:04
It was really surprising to me! I have been running 5ks and half marathons for YEARS and tried improving my time before and just ended up with sore knees or hips. Now my times are improving without trying! CRAZY! – sherpamelissa Apr 19 2011 at 2:41
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love the cherry picking of pictures in this thread haha. To be fair, look up dean karnazes or david goggins- Ultramarathon runners who are pretty damn ripped. Or look up chris lieto, chris mccormack, chrissie wellington, or mirinda carfrae- some of the top ironman athletes.

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Most runners over-train. I think you can be a marathon runner without looking sick. Plenty of evidence that different ancient cultures/tribes ran long distances. But still, I don't think running long distances improve your health AT ALL.

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most marathoners do because they must.....and that is why you should not. the smartest of us learn from others mistakes. Some here like to run.....fine. Just like chronic disease too and be congruent. – The Quilt Apr 18 2011 at 22:45
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I aspire to find a girl who looks like Kara Goucher, who finished 5th at today's Boston Marathon. As Dr. K hinted at, cherrypicking sometimes only gets the sicklier berries.

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i might think about considering running a marathon if i could look like her. – being Apr 18 2011 at 21:46
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Damn. I've got the arms Kamal, but the abs are never gonna happen. ;) – sherpamelissa Apr 18 2011 at 22:13
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i changed my mind- im not running any damn marathon. thats some crazy shizz. i just read that girlfriend here had a baby six months ago! those are some good genes. – being Apr 18 2011 at 22:32
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considering their age difference......Dr K stands by his points. This young thing has more stem cells to replace the ones she is killing with marathoning while the older runner has already killed off her best stem cells and is now pushing her genome to shortened telomeres and eventually to failure like all endurance runners do with time and carbs. See Kamal context really does matter. – The Quilt Apr 18 2011 at 22:43
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@Dr. K - Actually Kara Goucher was born in '78 and Kim Smith in '81! biomechanics and overtraining? – tartare Apr 18 2011 at 23:57
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marathon elite runner? >>> sorry no thanks.

Look at this YouTube vid of these women 'finishing' a marathon.

so unnecessary. so sad.

Yah you could say we're all cherry picking here to push a point, but you will not see a world class sprinter look like the guy on the left. but you see it all the time in marathon runners.

Here you go Doc. (per your comment request)

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the guy on the right has a lot longer telomeres.....you can bank your house on it. – The Quilt Apr 18 2011 at 22:44
good grief. Way to find extreme images. THe guy on the right is probably on steroids, too. – gydle Jun 7 at 9:43
he used to be on them! – Bish Jun 7 at 10:59
i've never taken steroids and never intend to, but I'd still rather be the guy on the right roiding up vs the guy on the left withering away. – Jack Kronk Jun 7 at 14:36
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As I learn more, I now think of Marathon runners something akin to pro boxers or football players...

on one hand you're an athlete or the other hand...this will take years off your life...

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