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At the risk of offending any confirmed non-breeders here I'll ask my question anyway. So I was reading this article in Details magazine http://www.details.com/culture-trends/critical-eye/201104/no-baby-boom-non-breeders

My question is, much like a vegan diet seems horribly puritanical and, using Sally Fallon's words here, "prudent" it seems equally unnatural to me to never desire to procreate with one's partner. Does anyone else think that these trends could be due to an increasingly unhealthy population? Maybe a combination of no longer seeing virility/fertility in our malnourished partners and an overall decrease in sexual desire?

I understand that the introduction of birth control has a lot to do with it and people are getting it on without that pesky pregnancy side effect. Obviously, I and most people not living in an agricultural environment will have no interest in being baby factories but a population of humans no longer having interest in creating little mini-me's is worrisome to me. This coupled with increasing rates of infertility seems like mighty dark foreshadowing to me.
I've been watching "Human Planet" on Discovery channel and watching these strong nimble, virile people, almost all of whom are breastfeeding effortlessly, climbing up trees with ease, munching on snakes, forest tubers, freshly hunted meat, etc. It's just got me thinking about our childless state.

Yes, Arctic monkey concerts are fun and so are childless nights on the town but as a new mother, making children seems like such an inherently biological urge to me.

(On a side note, after a year of being unable to conceive last year, I got pregnant one month after starting the Atkins diet. I had no idea Paleo or WAPF existed at that point.)

Again I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone who is sensitive about this topic.

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for the US population yes....for the person? Debatable. For a women yes.....it is. Being non pregnant raises the risk of breast cancer substantially. Infact the rates of breast cancer in lesbians is astronomical. Many OB's are suggesting to them now they consider a donor and then they can abort if they choose. I am not making a value judgement here but its out in the literature. For men the data is less detrimental. So you have to think about that – The Quilt Apr 20 2011 at 22:49
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Are you saying that conceiving a child and aborting it is a good prophylactic measure against breast cancer? I always thought that in order to receive the breast health benefits from pregnancy that you had to have the baby and also breast feed. Can you please site that literature to clarify. – wood Apr 21 2011 at 0:12
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oops meant cite:) I was completely floored by your comment and I haven't found anything online that indicates a pregnancy that is not brought to full term as being preventative for breast cancer. – wood Apr 21 2011 at 0:31
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I just read both of the articles you cited and neither said that lesbians are being counseled to get pregnant (and terminate the pregnancy if they want) as a measure of protection from breast cancer. Also the literature states that for this pregnancy protection to work you have to have a baby fairly young preferably before 20-25 years of age. – wood Apr 21 2011 at 1:56
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Oh my. That is the most disturbing thing I've heard in a while. We live in a sick society! I hope the literature doesn't really indicate that. – Andrea S. Apr 21 2011 at 2:18
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15 Answers

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No, it's not a bad thing.

There really is an upper limit to the number of humans this planet can support. What that number is doesn't matter. All that matters is it's somewhere in front of us, blocking the road and we're picking up speed every day.

I even think of it as an evolutionary adaptation, a kind of homeostasis regulator. The closer we get to overpopulation, the fewer of us want to procreate. Makes all kinds of sense to me.

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That's a good point. – Aughra Apr 20 2011 at 22:45
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My own language is making me twitchy here. When I say "think of it as an evolutionary adaptation" I don't mean it is one. But it is a convenient side effect of some other traits. – Lareth Apr 20 2011 at 23:12
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For what it's worth, after reading The Vegetarian Myth, I think that number is well behind us; we passed it by a long time ago with the help of non-renewable fossil fuels. – Casey Apr 20 2011 at 23:48
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That could very well be. I suppose it depends of your definition of "support", but I like to leave some wiggle room for as-yet-undiscovered means of resource management. – Lareth Apr 21 2011 at 0:17
In The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight, Thom Hartmann argues that the world can realistically support less than one billion people sustainably (i.e. without reliance on fossil fuels). – WyldKard Apr 21 2011 at 13:01
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A bad sign of what?

I'm not having children (and I'm 40) because I've never been crazy about kids and want to keep living my own life.

Look around... not many people are truly happy, and we live in a social structure that promotes waste, consumerism and greed, and it's not making many people happy. Exactly what is bad about not wanting to push a child into that environment? How is it a "bad sign" that I don't need to find fulfillment externally or through someone else?

How is it a bad sign that I live in a day and age when I CAN actually make these choices with some ease?

How is it a "bad sign" that my lifestyle uses less resources? More gasoline and plastic junk for the rest of you LOL...

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I agree wholeheartedly with you! – Oranges13 Apr 23 2011 at 3:41
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Well said, RPS - agree 100%. – Kimmie Apr 23 2011 at 18:10
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Wish I could upvote this 20 times. – Redshift Apr 23 2011 at 21:09
ditto. this question just hurts my feelings. jesus. there is nothing wrong with me because my partner and i dont' want to procreate. Also, this completely ignores homosexuality, which is a totally "natural" occurrence. (See, e.g., Evolution's Rainbow, an awesome book about sexual orientation and gender in nature: amazon.com/…). – PaleoVenus Apr 30 2012 at 22:10
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Parents should be charged a carbon footprint tax until their child turns 18. – Nemesis Aug 14 at 23:57
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I think it's mostly socioeconomic. Children cost a lot of money in our society usually and people don't really reach a period of suitable income until their 30s or later. We have a disconnect between when it's appropriate in our "lifecycle" to have children culturally/economically and when it's appropriate in our biology. One of the biggest causes of infertility is simply waiting too low, though there are some other worrying things out there like the major decline in semen quality in all men of all ages.

Personally, I know I'll get a lot of flack for this, but I think women should start family planning in their late teens/early twenties so they can adjust their relationships and career trajectory based on their family goals. On one site people attacked me for saying that since "things change." Yeah, of course things change in EVERYTHING, but that doesn't mean making plans doesn't help people.

Maybe because I was homeschooled I spent a lot of time growing up around older women (at church and other places) who were struggling to conceive and it had a big effect on me. Every women has different priorities, but I decided to make having children before 30 a priority.

EDIT: There has been some talk here about how having a child reduces risk of breast cancer. In the extremely enlightening article "The breast/nipple/areola complex and human sexuality" I learned that this only works if you have the baby (not just get pregnant) before you are young (before 24, though before 30 seems to have an effect, albeit a lesser one). Luckily, merely stimulating the nipples (IE in a erotic situation) seems to also have an effect 0_o

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I suppose they do... I don't know. I'm kinda crunchy so I cloth diaper, breastfeed, feed baby normal non jarred food, have a lot of second hand toys and clothes, and room in with my baby so I'm not feeling the financial crunch that my friends with more conventional parenting methods feel. I'm sure I'll bite my tongue come college time but I have 18 years to save up for that. – Aughra Apr 20 2011 at 22:47
do you have health insurance? – tartare Apr 20 2011 at 22:49
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ugh, I hate the idea that I might have to be enslaved to my job in order to have children. shudders no wonder so many people are choosing not to... – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Apr 21 2011 at 2:28
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My issue? I grew up poor, didn't know really how poor until later, but we had a house and my parents both worked (leaving me alone in the house for an hour each day so they could swap jobs, and I didn't know about that until later). Also, I'm successful and I JUST GOT my job. I'm 26. If I have a kid now, the whole rest of my life is down the toilet in child care. I REFUSE to work if I have a child because of how my boyfriend was raised and I won't do that to my kid. But I'm NOT GIVING UP MY LIFE simply so I can have spawn which will take money I no longer have the ability to earn. – Oranges13 Apr 21 2011 at 15:09
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I"m 26 and I have my career now, do I want to have a kid at 30 and give up the rest of that career to take care of a kid? Not really. 5-6 years of working at my salary won't pay for a lifetime of a child or college.. I just don't know how I could swing it. I am independent, I'm not giving up my life for someone else like that until I'm done with it. – Oranges13 Apr 23 2011 at 3:39
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I think it's a very good thing. We have enough people on Earth. And there are always going to be plenty of people who want kids.

Once a country achieves a good quality of life (and reliable contraception) for both women and men, the birth rate plummets. It's just how it is. Give people choices in how to live their lives, they will choose to have fewer children on average and more will have none at all. Having kids is expensive, and while it can be rewarding, it's not exactly fun and games. Totally understand people who choose not to reproduce, although I know I want at least one biological child.

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I don't really see a decline in children where I live; but it may also be that since getting pregnant and having a child, most of the places we go are child friendly. There are plenty of children being brought into the world right now.

I think that if you don't want to be a parent - you shouldn't! It is NOT an easy job - especially to be a good parent. It's full of sleepless nights, worry, lack of social-life, sex-life, stretch marks, leaky boobs etc. etc. Don't get me wrong - I LOVE being a mom - but if you aren't sure, or don't want to be I totally support your choice.

Growing up, my parents were the only couple out of their friends to have a child - the lives that the DINKs (double income no kids) were able to have were rich and amazing. So was our life though too - I really think it's all about what you want out of life.

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I agree: it's about what a person wants out of life. – Ali Apr 21 2011 at 12:35
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According to the article, my husband and I are "undecideds" and it's for a multitude of reasons and "unhealthy" isn't one of them.

Most parents I see look exhausted, slightly aggravated by, and ready to bolt from their children. Sure, there are other parents who obviously love spending time with their kids, but none of them seem energized by it and even they are almost constantly correcting the kid. It's an always on, no-break job.

I have thought about it and realized I would be in a perpetual state of worry if I had a kid. I still claim Undecided status as, since I haven't actually ever had a kid, what if I'm wrong? But I haven't convinced myself it would be healthy for me--or the poor kid who would have to live with me--to take the chance and then deal with all that stress.

Besides, I have plenty of nieces and nephews. 8)

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This is one of my concerns, too. When I was growing up, I was surrounded by TERRIBLE children. And I'm certain that their parents didn't intend for them to become hellions and bullies, but it happened. I don't want to bring a kid into the world because they could become that bully, or even worse, be subjected to the crap I had to deal with. – Oranges13 Apr 21 2011 at 15:12
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The possibilities for disappointment/regret are limitless, lol – Ali Apr 21 2011 at 16:07
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I think a big part of the stress is that Americans no longer have the extended family unit close together. So it's 100% on the parents shoulders to raise the child. In hunter-gatherer societies the whole village helped raise the kids together. In Asian and Latin cultures this is still mostly true, you the the grandparents,uncles, aunts, cousins all raising the kids together and giving some relief to the process. – Geoff Apr 21 2011 at 23:13
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That's a good point, Geoff. On the other hand, seeing how my own mom "sneaks" things to her existing grandkids (One cookie won't hurt--mom doesn't need to know!), I would be wary about leaving my kids with her for an extended period of time. – Ali Apr 25 2011 at 16:42
yep, us punjabi folks all tend to live together and so you can count on and influence your cousins to help and have kids. grandparents live with you and can pitch in. – tj Jul 25 at 23:57
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On the contrary, it's actually completely unnatural to desire to procreate and is wholly the result of cultural influences. Humans are the only animal that says, "I want a little fat version of myself to be brought into existence." The rest of the organisms on Earth simply copulate and then cope with the result. If you raise a human in a lab, they don't ever have a conscious desire to create babies unless you introduce the idea to them. It's not hard-wired simply because it's not necessary to do so. We have evolved to have sexual desire, which indirectly leads to reproduction, so there's no need to hard-wire an actual desire for the end result itself. The "biological clock" as it is often described is a total myth; it's a cultural clock.

I embrace my sentience and choose freedom over self-imposed slavery to offspring.

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You have an experiment with humans raised in labs? Mind linking to it? – pfw Apr 20 2011 at 23:44
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It's also unnatural to paint like Picasso, build magnificent structures, write novels and play guitars. I embrace my sentience and choose freedom over studying Calculus. – Thomas Seay Apr 20 2011 at 23:49
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Just to add - the human race wouldn't have gotten very far if procreation was reduced to, "Gee, Leno's boring tonight - hey, hon, let's get it on and have a kid." – JansSushiBar Apr 21 2011 at 15:25
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The libido has evolved to get individuals to copulate, which produces offspring. There is no need to hard-wire people into wanting a child, but there is a need to hard-wire them into wanting to take care of a child that arises as a result of copulation. These are crucial distinctions. There is no conscious or even subconscious desire to create offspring in any animal (outside of those that are induced culturally in humans). – Travis Culp Apr 21 2011 at 21:55
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Afterall, there's nothing "natural" about culture. That's hilarious. – Chris Masterjohn Apr 22 2011 at 1:17
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An interesting hypothesis, but I am doubtful. I don't see how ill health would lead to a desire not to have children or lack of desire to have children. The most plausible mechanism would be ill health reducing sex drive and thereby leading to people not wanting to have children. But I don't think that this is the explanation, because however far ill health is reducing our sex drives, I don't think that this is the cause of increasing numbers of people not wanting to have children. If this were so, then the people not wanting to have children would also not be wanting to have sex, but I suspect that this isn't the case. In fact, I should think that many of the people not wanting to have children still want to have sex (and maybe don't want to have children because they still want to have sex unimpeded by children) and that there are lots of people with no sex drive, but who want to have children.

I suspect that the explanations are all primarily sociological and these reasons are easy enough to imagine. The article cites enough though: "We watched [parents] struggle to pay bills, find suitable apartments or houses to fit their families, and work at jobs they didn't like because they needed the insurance."

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I forgot to have children and am now waaay to old. No regrets. I enjoy the children in the extended family, but can say "nice baby! Go home now!" when they are inconvenient. – Doris Apr 16 2012 at 13:22
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I appreciate that this is going to be totally controversial but this is said from the viewpoint of a teacher in a deprived area in the UK. What I seem to see (and I may be wrong) are intelligent educated thoughtful people choosing not to have children whilst people with less aspirations and who place much less value on education or even employment having more than two children - in some cases many more. It may just be what I see but I know families with 5 generations living - grandparents in their 30s and 40s, parents in their teens and early 20s who have never worked. Obviously there is an issue here with our benefits system but if you are implying that poor health leads to a decrease in desire to reproduce then I'd say the opposite - it is the poor, uneducated and most unhealthy who have the most children round here. I hope it is just a symptom of the particular area I teach in - still recovering from the closure of the mines by Thatcher in the 80s - and not a nationwide trend but I have to say that it worries me.

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The unemployed have the highest testosterone followed by blue collar workers and then white collar workers at the bottom. Stress and lack of movement can take a toll on ones hormones – Geoff Apr 21 2011 at 23:06
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I seriously think many of them can't be bothered with contraception - unfortunately they can't be bothered with the children they produce either so we (society in general and their teachers in particular) have to deal with the fall out. – queen of the stone age Apr 23 2011 at 10:51
@Geoff is that just your theory or can you cite any research? – Coja Apr 16 2012 at 9:04
@Queen. Your first statement makes sense but your follow up 'many of them' reeks of ignorance. If that's what you think about your students and their parents that's very unfortunate. – MrsD Apr 16 2012 at 10:24
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Saying it how I see it unfortunately. I deal with the results of poor 'can't be bothered' parenting on a daily basis. Of course most of them are lovely. But they have such low aspirations. Already got 2 pregnant 15 year olds in a class of 30 and one of them definitely had no idea what she was doing. And her mum proudly announced the pregnancy on Facebook when frankly she should have been had up for neglect. I think (hope) it is just like this in this very deprived and abandoned area. – queen of the stone age Apr 19 2012 at 15:54
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Evolution induced the instinct to have sex, not to procreate. It's only very recently that they haven't amounted to the same thing. If current trends continue, then evolution will start favouring those humans who actively want to have children. Previously, the conscious desire to have children was not necessary to get people to reproduce.

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This is an interesting question. I would guess that it's more sociological than biological. Let's face it. A lot of women are in the workforce now and so taking care of a child requires a great deal. Indeed, you will have two jobs, the 9-5 one and then the one at home. Also there is a not so subtle cultural message to resist anything averse to your own personal freedom.

[edit: change "no the joys" to "know the joys". Talk about your freudian slops. } I have three children and know the joys that it brings. However, it is a burden of sorts and I think a lot of people are incapable of imagining the joys and only reflect on the burdens. That's just my opinion.

Now, another thing to consider is the "nuclear" family. Imagine if you lived in a "hunter-gatherer" society where paternity might not be know or might be attributed to numerous men. You would have a number of parties interested in taking care of the children and so the "burden" would not just fall on two parents.

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Man, I'd kill for a gaggle of womenfolk to help me with this little guy. – Aughra Apr 20 2011 at 22:56
Should have had a girl. They are much easier to deal with at that age :) – Thomas Seay Apr 20 2011 at 23:03
@Ashley, two words: SISTER WIVES. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_wives (Totally kidding!) – familygrokumentarian Apr 21 2011 at 1:10
Dude, if it weren't for all the abundant crazy inthat culture I'd consider it. Lol – Aughra Apr 21 2011 at 2:58
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Just read the book Spontaneous Evolution by Bruce Lipton. He makes it quite evident to reproduce in times like this is counterproductive to the future of humans. Bruce Lipton is one of the leaders in epigenetics and quantum mechanics. Think of this.....we humans have fallen in a terrible rut for the last 100 years.....we keep doing the same thing and expect different results...well that is the definition of insanity! We cannot continue making the same mistakes over an over again or there will be an apocalypse. The law of attraction does work.....those who think the end of the world is coming (religious people) have thought and possibly brought their beliefs to reality. Sound crazy? Nope it's not....read the book....and there are plenty more like it that just make since.

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It's profoundly unhealthy to avoid having children. It's not like you've got to actively go round trying, but to actively short circuit the system? This is just like eating soy, wheat, etc... it's just a different domain.

Think of contraception as an I.Q. test. It's a low bar, but it is a bar. Some can actually follow the instructions on the package; others get pregnant. So, unless intelligent people actually commit to having children, things will be pretty bleak for the human race. (Things will also be pretty bleak for Gaia too, you planet-loving hippy, if your kin ain't around to stop Idiocracy from turning into a documentary.)

The happiness research has been downright silly. Parents tend to be worried about more stuff, mainly because they are responsible for their children. So when you call parents, versus when you call a singe person and ask them if they are happy, who's more likely to say they are happy? Do we even have a reasonable expectation to believe both people mean the same thing when they say they are happy?

Over-population continues to be a myth. Since the Population Bomb in the 70s onward, every prediction these people make has failed to materialize. We've got a large population but it doesn't matter as much as people think, and the trend is toward fewer children. Russia is actively trying to encourage reproduction; China is in real trouble with a mostly male population; the 'western' countries have low birth rates associated with affluent women; the Japanese are old; I could go on, but I think I've killed my quota of semicolons for today.

And then, what is psychologically healthy? I think there exists an unhealthy assumption among those that seek to find themselves. The search assumes you are static and that you are not wherever you are. Meanwhile, obviously you have a body, so you are there in some meaningful way and you change! Children are a part of that change, part of the full range of human experience.

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Please cite your sources where its "unhealthy to have children." Personally? It's more unhealthy to lack sleep, stress all the time, not be able to eat a reasonable diet due to lack of time, lack of money, etc. Having a child is the LAST thing you want to do if health is your only concern. – Oranges13 Apr 22 2011 at 0:18
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I do worry about the effects of hormonal contraception in the long term. I had very negative effects from it. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Apr 22 2011 at 2:49
I said it was unhealthy to avoid having children. The side-effects of contraception were high on the list. The lack of traditional relationships at the time we are biologically supposed to have them also troubles me. Sure, child + modern life doesn't translate directly to child + paleolithic life, but it's modern life, not the child that we need to change for the better. This argument is based on logic and evolutionary theory, not sources,though I suppose you could google the side-effects of the pill.Realizing this stuff is akin to realizing saturated fat is good for you, despite research. – August Apr 22 2011 at 15:01
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By "flirty" excuse me forty...women have a different agenda anyway!

We are more concerned with our slowly decline in feminity and overall lifespan as a rule this is a midlife time for reflection of the past and making the most out of the future to come!~

Typicaly by this time a child could possibly greatly hinder both meanwhile maintaining it's own progression, the very definition of motherhood. If you are ready for this very real, purposful and initially bloody self-sacrifice (said tongue in cheek)...PROCREATE

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IMO, it's a very selfish thing. Being someone who would really like to be a mother and not having any luck finding a mate, I'm pained daily those who are "childless by choice".

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people have the right to make the choices they feel are correct in their life. it's not very kind or good to put them down for it. worry about your own life. – tartare Apr 20 2011 at 23:26
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I just totally don't get how it's selfish. Living in an age where one can choose to biologically parent, or not, is a great thing. I wish more would consider, honestly, the possibility that they may not want to parent children before they have them. Wanting a baby and wanting to parent a child are two different things entirely. Besides, the planet is astoundingly overpopulated already. – Katherine Apr 20 2011 at 23:49
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And "pained daily" by another's choice that has no effect on you whatsoever? That seems a rather strong choice of words. – Katherine Apr 20 2011 at 23:50
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The exact opposite argument could be made here; that is it is a very selfless thing not to have children in a world that is over stressed and over populated by........ us. Every living organism would currently be a whole lot better of if there were no humans. (Vegan's, you know what to do). – Rhubarb Apr 21 2011 at 0:54
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You can call me selfish. I don't have a desire to have children. The acts going into making children, great. Kids, not so much. Am I selfish? Yes. Why? I like being able to do what I want when I want to (travel, buy things, etc.) and not having to consider other people. I am single which helps this matter. I've spent so many years being able to do what I want that right now, no desire to change that and have children. Am I selfish due to being able to reproduce and choosing not to? No. I'm selfish because I want to keep my current lifestyle. (I like having more money to support my Paleo habit) – StephNY Apr 22 2011 at 2:06
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