Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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For days I have been combing this site as well as Dr. Ks, Wolffs, Sissons, and anything else that comes up on a google search concerning PWO nutrition and gluconeogenesis vs carb loading.I have been VLC (in ketosis) for 6 months and making gains in size/strength while maintaining 6%-8%BF. However, I have been told I will eventually plateau although I figured I would have seen it by now.

I typically eat 1/2lb bison/lamb/6 eggs/4 slices bacon PWO. However, I don't eat for 2-6 hours after training and it has been my ONLY meal of the day. On non-lifting days, I eat around 12n and 7pm. Buffalo/lamb/salmon/organ meats with kale/chard/spinach/collards cooked in Kerrygold or raw spinach salad with an avocado. I want to stress that I eat this way because it FEELS right. I train 6 days/wk in martial arts and do "events" once/wk (tires, sleds, hammer, mace, etc.) I have not experienced ANY energy loss and on a side note, my libido has been through the roof.

So, this morning I decided to try something different. I lifted HEAVY this morning and ate within 30 min. It seems the general consensus is "1 pound of meat/1 pound of sweet potato". The best I could get down was 1/4lb of buffalo and 280g sweet potato....and I feel sick to my stomach. Anyone have ANY ideas? Am I that dif? So my question is....HOW DO YOU EAT SO MUCH AND DO YOU EVER FEEL SICK AFTERWARDS? To add a follow-up question, anyone know if it really matters if I waited till my hunger naturally strikes and I could then gorge myself and obtain all the necessary nutrients? Would the carbs specifically still convert to glucose?

edited May 2 2011 at 14:30

asked May 2 2011 at 13:31

L. Peltier

How much do you weigh now, and what do you want to weigh eventually? – JJ May 2 2011 at 13:39

Currently, 175lbs up from 167lbs and honestly, I don't have a weight in mind. I do want to continue gaining as long as I dont notice any reduction in speed(I am a fighter). – L. Peltier May 2 2011 at 13:52

@LPelt, perhaps its just a matter of how much you are actually taxing your muscles. Generally the big refeed PWO is done by people lifting weights that are quite heavy relative to their bodyweight. This is usually big weight with low reps. Maybe with the poundages you're currently lifting you simply don't require the amount of food PWO. In the final analysis, if what you are doing is working, don't sweat it. Just keep doing what you're doing until your CONSISTENT PROGRESSIVELY HEAVIER numbers stop increasing. Thats what i did. At that point, re-assess. Maybe then you'll need more fuel. – ben61820 May 2 2011 at 14:12

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I'm with ben. Whatever you're doing is working. You clearly don't need to eat more in the "PWO window" just because the theory tells you to. – JJ May 2 2011 at 16:10

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I wait until hunger sets in, rather than trying to chase the elusive PWO window – Todd May 2 2011 at 16:44

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ben61820 · Accepted Answer · 2011-05-02 14:05:34Z UTC

When i started lifting heavy it was after years of doing kettlebells/sledgehammer high-rep lower-weight exercise. My mentality was always "seeking the burn", trying to use up calories, etc. I suppose i wished i were getting stronger too but in truth I wasn't. During those days, with "the burn" so much in my mind, eating big PostWO was the last thing i wanted to do. It seemed anathema to my goal of working out.

Then i stopped all the "spinning my wheels" workouts and started lifting low-reps and heavy iron. I'm not saying one trumps the other by the way, just giving you background so you can see why my thinking, and thus ability to eat big PWO, changed. I still didn't eat really big PWO for the first couple months. Slowly though, through actually seeing the gains i made by the smaller initial increments i managed to get down my throat PWO, i just started really thinking "more more more." In the beginning i was in the 12oz protein and 12oz starchy veg (with the goal of approximately 150 grams-ish of carbohydrate content) range.

Now, of course there is a limit to the amount should eat at any time of the day post or pre-workout, and I would definitely NOT say that "one pound lean protein and one pound sweet potato" is some kind of guideline for anyone at all. I myself eat that PWO everytime. I stand 5'11" and currently weigh 173-175lbs depending on the day, what i had for dinner the night before and the myriad of other things that change our weight minute by minute. But i follow a strict paleo diet with Targeted Ketogenic Dieting as my format (essentially VLC on nonlifting days and then pre and post-lifting i take down a lot of starch) so maybe thats why i can afford to eat one pound of each of those postlifting. Othe people may find that that's too much.

No, i never feel sick after eating big postlifting. Quite the contrary, even though my body now contains two whole pounds of material that it did not just minutes before, i feel very energized and my digestion is perfect in that PWO window. Two full pounds of food down in prolly 25 minutes of time and no indigestion, no gas, no sense of fullness.

JJ · Answer 2 · 2011-05-02 13:39:23Z UTC

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I'm a little concerned you feel sick after eating 4 OUNCES of buffalo.

Nonetheless, eat 5 ounces next week, 6 the week after that, and so on.

I started out at 3 eggs and can now eat 12 comfortably, and still remain kinda hungry.

1/2 lb. of bison PWO is not terrible, but if that is really your only meal of the day, you need to eat a lot more.

answered May 2 2011 at 13:39

JJ
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	I have always felt this way using the "PWO window of opportunity." If I were to wait till my hunger naturally strikes, I could eat the whole buffalo. My thoughts are towards what I may be missing/depriving my body of, by not utilizing what has become "conventional wisdom". – L. Peltier May 2 2011 at 13:44
	Also, my thoughts are that its the sweet potato that doing it. I do know carbs halt the release of HGH and this is where my problem lies. Is gluconeogenesis they way to go PWO and keep the HGH flowing? – L. Peltier May 2 2011 at 13:55
	From the lifting sites i've read the hGH-release in that PWO window is small. More specifically, that compared to the benefits of presenting your body with the raw materials it requires to actually start repairing and rebuilding your punished muscles in the form of a big PWO feeding, the hGH-release sacrifice, as it were, is a worthy trade-off. Simply put, perhaps we get more value out of a big refueling than from a smallish release of hGH. Remember too that hGH is secreted in waves throughout both the day and night. – ben61820 May 2 2011 at 14:08
	Not from what I have read esp from Sisson, concerning gluconeogenesis and HGH superior anabolic effect to insulin-induced PWO feeding. – L. Peltier May 2 2011 at 14:25
	@Lpelt, yeah the argument always goes back and forth. I enjoy reading different sources is all. I read everything the paleo experts put out but i find it interesting reading what classic lifters write, too. Many times its quite similar, but then there are details that differ. I'm always experimenting with what I read. – ben61820 May 2 2011 at 14:30

luckybastard · Answer 3 · 2011-05-02 14:27:26Z UTC

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i eat 1-1.5/lb of meat at a sitting and eat 2-3 lbs a day total. i lift heavy weight 3 times a week. i'm 6' 230 with bodyfat in the mid-teens. I actually need this much meat a day to feel satiated- especially on lifting days. On workout days, i eat 2-3 potatoes and a cup or two of white rice pwo.

answered May 2 2011 at 14:27

luckybastard♦
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K but my question is concerning PWO "window".... – L. Peltier May 2 2011 at 14:31

i eat a lb of meat and that amount of starch within 2 hours of finishing my workout. some people have a thing where they're not hungry til about an hour or 2 hours after their workout. maybe wait a bit longer, maybe an hour, or an hour and a half and see if you get really hungry then. – luckybastard♦ May 2 2011 at 14:36

You wait 2 hours and still see results? – L. Peltier May 2 2011 at 15:04

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yeah. there is so many variables in play that i don't really think too hard about timing my pwo. if i'm hungry, i go medieval on some food. if not, i wait til i am hungry enough to do it. but then again, ur body comp is better than mine. mine is still dropping after coming down from about 26% bf so maybe when i get to your bf% i'll have to tweak harder... – luckybastard♦ May 2 2011 at 16:25

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I've waited up to 5-6 hrs PWO. Just didnt feel like eating. But when I did.... oh man. – Todd May 2 2011 at 16:45

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Alan · Answer 4 · 2011-05-03 06:30:44Z UTC

I train in the morning, usually 7-7:30. I always train fasted with the exception of 5g EAA/BCAA before, another 5g half way through and another 5-10g after then I'll often not eat until 6pm. Some days I may feel hunger around 3pm so I'll have something to eat. Eat to hunger not the clock. I eat high fat adequate protein and low/zero carb. A good energy boost/ pick me up is a spoonful of coconut oil.

Antti · Answer 5 · 2011-06-08 06:45:16Z UTC

I love the big PWO meals :) I aim to eat 60 % of my calories PWO. Yesterday I had a little short of a pound of ground beef (raw weight), a pound-bag of frozen broccoli and 2.5 pounds of white (new) potatoes (first potatoes i think in a year). Sure it took me a while, but I didn't feel stuffed or bloated afterwards, and even though it was a substantial volume of food (I usually laugh at the plate a little bit before digging in), my digestive system seems to have taken care of it already, as it has been about 14 hours since i finished that meal, I'm starting to get hungry....(doing 16 hour daily fast).

How do you eat so much PWO?

5 Answers