Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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I am interested in discovering which is the best source? Sunlight, yes. But is it better to avoid, eg. the PUFAs in cod liver oil when taken as a vitamin D3 suppplement and opt for pill form? I have read that industrial vitamin D3 can be harmful even when kept in reasonable ranges(under 10,000i.u). Generally: Is a food source a better alternative to pills? What evil consequences befall the pill popper if any? The food gobbler? Assuming sunlight availability would it not be best and no added Vit D3?

flag	asked May 14 2011 at 16:05 PersonMan

Andy · Answer 1 · 2011-05-14 16:58:11Z UTC

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Sunlight (optimal, the body down-regulates when optimal level achieved) > Supplement (ideal when sun isn't available, no down-regulation) > Food (typically inadequate source by itself)

answered May 14 2011 at 16:58

Andy
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Way to spell it out, love the 'greater than' signs. What would you consider optimal re: sun exposure?(to the whole body nude or maybe something less indiscrete)... – PersonMan May 14 2011 at 18:56

Thomas Seay · Answer 2 · 2011-05-15 01:42:43Z UTC

I have to chime in here. I can tell you this much. I have had chapped lips since starting Paleo. I concurrently started taking Vitamin D supplements. I had chapped lips the entire time. At first I thought it was Vitamin C deficiency. I added eating a couple of lemons every day. Helped only a little. A few days ago, I stopped doing the Vitamin D and the chapped lips are finally going away.

Now, I understand the need for Vitamin D, but at least for me, it was having this not painful but aggravating side-effect.

HeatherC · Answer 3 · 2011-05-14 18:27:53Z UTC

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I don't think you can get as much Vit. D as we seem to need just through food. It's amazing to me that my Vit D level wasn't higher, I've been supplementing 10,000 iu per day for the last few months and I live in Florida, spend 45-60 min a day outside walking and my level was only 67 ng/ml.

@Trevor - this is the Vitamin D3 I use http://www.solgar.com/SolgarProducts/Vitamin-D3-Cholecalciferol-5000-IU-Vegetable-Capsules.htm

edited May 14 2011 at 18:27

answered May 14 2011 at 16:21

HeatherC
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I'm just curious but how are you supplementing your Vit. D. That is. What kind of Vit. D? What brand of Vit. D? I live near Toronto in Canada and I know I don't get as much sunlight. – Trevor May 14 2011 at 16:29

I use Vit D3 5000IU a day from this product swansonvitamins.com/NWF391/ItemDetail?n=0 My level is in the mid 80s ng/mL This product uses olive oil as the carrier instead of soybean oil that is used by other products. – Dexter May 14 2011 at 17:23

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hcantrall, If you are ever looking for a Paleo Doctor in Florida Dr Ken Tourgeman, Fort Lauderdale is there. He and BillyE a patient co write nephropal.blogspot.com BillyE had chronic kidney disease and was an overweight diabetic and is now pretty much cured of his problems under the direction of Dr. T. His idea is to practice evolutionary medicine. – Dexter May 14 2011 at 18:23

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67 ng/ml is too high. In fact, it's on the very upper end of what is physiologically possible through simple sun exposure. Why would you ever want your serum level higher than what your body could do (in the tropics!) on its own. Very un-paleo and unwise. If Dr. K disagrees, he or she is simply wrong – Jay May 14 2011 at 18:38

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People need to start being as skeptical about the advice from unorthodox internet doctors as they are of regular doctors. – Matt May 14 2011 at 18:42

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aaa · Answer 4 · 2011-05-15 01:27:37Z UTC

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I agree with Richard N, you can get required amounts of vit D just from food. Just 100g of herring gives 170% RDA. Traditional Inuit diet confirms this as well. I also do not believe that megadosing of concentrated vit D is beneficial for a healthy body, or any other supplements in such amounts.

answered May 15 2011 at 1:27

aaa
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	Why don't you think it is beneficial? – Thomas Seay May 15 2011 at 1:39
	aaa: would you explain why supplementation of VitD3 is undesirable? I would like to avoid wasting cash/health(not necessarily in that order) on pills. – PersonMan May 15 2011 at 13:49
	I could not find convincing evidence that extra vit D is beneficial when looking at others experiences. Personal experience appears to confirm it. I used to regularly take it for long time but I could not see or feel any difference, so I stopped. Instead I regularly eat raw herring or mackerel (sashimi). I feel no different than when taking it. Also, I think such concentrated amounts were never intended by nature and it is hard to fool nature. I guess if all you eat is canned food than I think supplementation would be helpful. Otherwise it is a waste of money. Just my opinion. – aaa May 15 2011 at 17:15

Richard N · Answer 5 · 2011-05-14 17:44:11Z UTC

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Our ancestors didn't take pills. A diet with plenty of vitamin D is not hard to accomplish. Pastured organ meats like liver, fat from grass fed animals who live outside (lard is a very good source of vitamin D), pastured egg yolks, fish liver oil, shellfish, oily fish, butter, cream. Sunlight is not a reliable way of getting vitamin D.

answered May 14 2011 at 17:44

Richard N
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But our caveman ancestors ran around naked all day and and made Vit D. California lifeguards measure 135-150ng/ml serum after a season working. The Vit D Council has measured Vit D3 after 30 min half naked full sun..15 min each side of body...makes 10000 to 20000IU. The same council wants people to be at 60ng/ml serum D3 and Dr K on PH wants his patients at 70 to 100ng/ml. And Dr Tourgeman, a practicing Nephrologist in Fort Lauderdale, Fl has stated on his Nephropal blog that almost all of his patients are deficient in D3 dispite living in Fl. Have you ever checked your serum Vit D3 level? – Dexter May 14 2011 at 18:12

There are only certain times of the year and hours of the day that sun exposure will offer vitamin D potential and that will vary as to where you are on the globe. This species evolved and thrived without pills. – Richard N May 14 2011 at 18:18

I'm not aware that pastured meat (esp. lean meat like liver) contains much vitamin D. I've heard that lard does, but not seen any reliable figures (ditto for dairy fat, eggs). If I were to eat sardines exclusively I'd still get less vitamin D than I can make in 5-10 minutes outside (in the UK) at the moment. I agree that you can't get vitamin D from the sun here 6 months of the year, but we still largely evolved where we could and did. Also our european ancestors would have spent those 6 months mostly outside, whereas we often spend almost all of daylight inside. – David Moss May 14 2011 at 18:30

You're right about beef liver not having mush vitamin D but duck, chicken and goose livers do. It's the animal fat where the vitamin D will be and it's not accurate to assume as many here do that wild meat is lean by definition. If diet did not provide adequate amounts of the fat soluble vitamins then how was the all important vitamin A obtained? The same nutritious foods listed contain the vitamin A and K and other nutrients too. – Richard N May 14 2011 at 18:41

And if we are out, we cover up because we have been taught to be sunphopic. Richard, you did not answer about your serum D3 level. Having lived in Sausalito, I am sure most if not all residents of SF county and Marin County are D3 deficient due to lack of sun a great many days of the year. – Dexter May 14 2011 at 18:41

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Vitamin D: industrial vs. Dietary

5 Answers