Dr Oz is an idiot (or maybe just an opportunistic cynic) who is bought and sold by the medical/pharmaceutical establishment. After watching this show, because of the head-nodding science that is behind the paleo/primal movement, shows like this are not favorable if you can't break things down into soundbytes. The oversimplification of the carbs vs. no carbs and fats tables were a joke. i was disappointed that Taubes didn't go into seed oils and omega 6 or fructose. He did his best to make Taubes look like an extremist without ever getting into a substantive conversation about whether the diet is effective or not. overall, an impressive bit of charlatanism.
Edit: my question is do you think people who are somewhat aligned with the whole food/evolution- based diet go on these mainstream shows? i used to think that it needs more exposure but if an honest hearing can't be given in the mainstream then what's the use?
Any obesity discussion that doesn't covert inflammation, omega 6 fats, leptin, the thyroid, and general nutrition is incomplete.
That being said Taubes is right to say that processed carbs cause obesity. They certainly do.
I wrote this in his comments section on his blog.
So then we agree that a person's carbohydrate tolerance depends upon their insulin sensitivity. But here's the deal: insulin sensitivity doesn't necessarily depend upon carbohydrates so there is a huge section of the puzzle. Sure flour and sugar cause insulin resistance, but sweet potatoes do not. See the Kitavans. It is well known in the paleo community that a disequilibrium of tissue polyunsaturated fats, damage to the gut from grains, nutrient deficiencies, and a whole host of other things. See here I made a post on Mark Sisson's forum about how to reverse insulin resistance with diet (hint hint, high fat is better) http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread25174-2.html#post364212
My point to authors on obesity is that it is not all right for us to walk around insulin resistant as can be as long as we keep it low carb.
So it isn't necessarily the carbohydrate because you need that catalyst to see overly undesirable effects from carbs, and a low carb diet tends to be good for weight loss, but it may not be the case that a fat person needs to go on a low carb diet when they could just become insulin sensitive with the right carbs and lifestyle factors.
Granted, carbs will cause higher triglycerides and worse blood lipids overall no matter how insulin sensitive you are compared with fats. Fats raise adiponectin and a bunch of other things make lower carb diets superior, but the point is that insulin sensitivity is as important as amount of carbs.
So is leptin. We have fat insulin sensitive people who have leptin resistance in their hypothalamus and can't lose weight because their brain doesn't know that they have any fat to begin with. There are also people with an inadequate thyroid. All are pieces of the puzzle.
You are a smart guy and I would love to see you go into an in-depth epidemiological, biochemical, and philosophical defense of animal products in general. That would be beautiful. But I think you should look to paleo blogs and authors for guidance to really make the refutation systematic.
Ah, it's all good. We have to remember that this is a daytime talk show more entertainment than information. I think Dr. Oz is a good guy. I believe he believes in what he says and truly thinks it is the way, the truth and the light. Of course I think he's dead wrong but given I'm here that sort of goes without saying. I give him huge props for even having Gary on the show. We get nowhere denigrating or vilifying those who disagree with us. Good people can have different opinions from the ones we hold and that doesn't make them the devil. It just means we have work to do.
I am supremely disappointed that Gary wasn't more ready (if ready at all) for the cholesterol test issue. He fails PR 101 today. He looked like a deer caught in the headlights. I worship the ground that man walks on but he disappointed me today in that moment. You have to think three steps ahead of the enemy and clearly he had not done that on this issue. Either take the test and have some good points to make about it in discussion or don't take it and be prepared with some hard statements about how you refuse to play that game or whatever. Just anticipate and be prepared. That he did not seem to have done.
"“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” We're fighting now and that's a very good thing indeed. Now each and every one of us must continue to walk our own walk to the best of our ability and be ready for our own opportunities to influence hearts and minds. More Ghandi "You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
He's not an IDIOT. You lose credibility when you throw out terms like that so cheaply.
Did you get the result out of the tv show that you wanted? Clearly not. Is Oz educated and open-minded on the topic of health and nutrition? Clearly not.
Taubes put up a blog post this morning telling his side of the story. He didn't seem to think the interview was that bad; he's cheerfully accepting of the invented controversy that always comes with the advantages of television exposure. I think he's right; there's no such thing as bad publicity.
vids can be seen here:
I like this question. The majority of mainstream so called "experts" are still stuck in the old paradigm. (fat=bad, whole grains=good). So our Paleo experts, (Wolf, Taubes, Harris, and so on) are being thrown into the old paradigm during these shows. Its difficult and frustrating to be judged "whack job" or "extremist" because our views are so different. Its like when i talk about this stuff with my parents. They are slowly getting more open to the ideas but still lots of work on their part needs to be done. JUST as i had to work hard on my part to do the research and shift my thinking. Its up to the fat=bad experts to do their own research, figure this stuff out on their own or not. I think having everyday people make the changes we advocate and get great results in health will have the biggest effect. So should our Paleo experts continue to go on these mainstream shows.. I don't know.. But i do know it sure can be frustrating watching it happen. Sorry if my rant doesn't add much to the conversation.
Have you guys seen this video where Oz directly speaks his opinion on the Paleo Diet?
So I watched the videos, thanks W8. With stuff like this, where Oz is captive to advertisers, you absolutely have to read between the lines. Foremost, Dr. Oz is giving Taubes a venue so right there, that is an endorsement. Next Oz takes pains to agree with Taubes on a lot of occasions.
Also, watch part 3 where Dr. Oz shows what he would have eaten in a normal day. It wasn't that far from a low carb, paleo approach. It sure wasn't loaded up on processed, SAD "neolithic agents of disease":
Breakfast was yogurt from a tub (ie. low or no added sugars) w/ blueberries. Snack was soaked walnuts and an orange. Lunch was leafy greens with a little whole grain (non-gluten?) starch Dinner was salmon, leafy greens, and non-gluten brown rice.
For someone without metabolic syndrome, there's not very much wrong with that diet. Not sure how many grams of carb are in it, but it doesn't seem a whole lot more than 100-150.
If I had any quibbles it is that Gary could have beat-up Oz by pointing out how close Dr Oz's typical diet is to Taubes'. Then follow it up with the irony that Dr. Oz thinks Taubes' diet is not long-term sustainable while Oz' thinks his own is. Truth is for a lot of people Oz' diet isn't. And Oz admits as much towards the end when he says quickly, almost in passing, that he sees Taubes' diet as an answer for some people in certain cases. Gee, Dr. Oz, who might those some people be?
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