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My few vegetarian friends are more than horrified at my going Paleo, they think I am evil, really evil. They are vegetarians for moral reasons, the cruelty of the animal farm factories. I tell them pastured animals are treated humanely and they turn a deaf ear. Eating animals to them is on par with cannibalism. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

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Thanks for all the answers and comments. The truth is if mankind was not "super smart" we would have been eaten by animals long ago. That is just the way nature works. The animals in the local small organic farms here live a pretty good life. – Mark V May 17 2011 at 14:03

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it's their choice to turn a deaf ear, but in reality I think the choice to eat humanely raised and pastured animals is very important in promoting animal welfare.

If no one supports these types of practices, then corporate factory farming wins. Animals really are a vital part of sustainable farming, mostly in that they truly promote soil fertility and soil integrity which is key in keeping this planet healthy. Plenty of vegetable farming including organic farming is done as a monoculture and leads to run off that is destroying life in bodies of water all over the world.

Nature designed her system to include an animal food chain and well, if your vegetarian friends choose to attempt to re-author it, well, what can you do?

I try to stay out of conversations about these subjects with the vegetarians/vegans I know, but if it were brought up I would stand by the basic point that what I am doing is very acceptable to me from a broader moral standpoint. I split a bottle of wine with a vegetarian not but a few days ago, and we had no problem agreeing on that :)

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It's hard to argue that supporting ethic treatment of animals raised for food isn't a good thing. As more people support humane practices more demand is created and supply increases. When supply increases prices come down and this type of product is accessible to many more. Yes opting out is one way to go but opting to invest in change so that we eventually annihilate the horror of factory farming or change it. Veggies need to see this as the second prong in a two-pronged approach. The real change will come when the consumer says no to cruelty and demands better not when they walk away. – Shari Bambino May 16 2011 at 23:03
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yes, supply and demand is exactly what i was getting at. – tartare May 16 2011 at 23:15
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Given that their lifestyle is more akin to a religion than a thoroughly researched, science-based approach to diet, it's futile to attempt to sway their opinion. Obvious vitality is the best argument.

We have a vegan friend who works for PETA, and it's simply not worth it to ever get into it.

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PETA? People Eating Tasting Animals? I'm a member of Peta. – Ryan H May 16 2011 at 23:41
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@Ryan H: Oh wow that's original ! – Anonymous Coward May 17 2011 at 0:48
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people eating TASTY animals ;) – Andrea S. May 17 2011 at 2:54
Opps, yea it should have been TASTY... its what happens when I type when I should just go to bed. – Ryan H May 17 2011 at 10:17
yes, the zeal and dogmatism is like a religion – Mark V May 17 2011 at 14:08
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two very close friends of mine who have been vegan for 20+ years and own a vegan junk-food grocery store deleted me off of facebook when i started eating a paleo diet. really hurt my feelings- these are people who i hvae known loner than ive know my husband. i flew to their wedding from new england to east bum f**k louisiana. i respect their passion and the fact that they have literally devoted their life to something the believe in so strongly. it was never an issue for me in the slightest. i have friends who follow all sorts of weirdo diets like i do, and its never been an issue.

i was forced out to dinner a while ago with this horrid woman who i had never met before, a friend of a friend, who is vegetarian. we just clashed from the moment i met up with her, but food never came up. when we ended up at dinner together at a thai place, i ordered lamb and veggies she got some pile of rice noodles in sugar/soybean oil and fried tofu. she leaned over the table and asked what i was eating and when i told her she did the most obnoxious histrionic gagging fit. i just started laughing like crazy, and i dont think she appreciated it one bit. but it was so dramatic!

the whole damn night i was itching to point out the hour long ride we had to take in her LEATHER UPHOLSTERED LEXUS.

that sort of thing kills me. but she wasnt and never will be a friend, so i was thankful to see the back of her.

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I wish I had been a fly on THAT wall! – Thomas Seay May 16 2011 at 23:47
oh she was a horrible person. ive never disliked someone so intensely so quickly. i could go on, but i wont. – being May 17 2011 at 0:39
I wish you would. I know it was miserable for you, but it's a funny story. – Thomas Seay May 17 2011 at 16:44
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Laughing at imbeciles like that is the best response. – David Rourke May 17 2011 at 23:28
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I am a paleo-eating Yoga teacher. :) I think it's refreshing for Yogis to realize that they don't have to fit the stereotype to be a Yogi. When my students realize that I'm no longer a vegetarian they seem relieved. As for my friends and students that enjoy a vegetarian lifestyle, we extend a common courtesy. They know that I've been there-done that, and it wasn't right for my family. It's all good. I figure if they are that closed-minded, we didn't need to be friends anyway :)

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When I was really into yoga, I felt some pressure to be a vegetarian- not from other people, but a lot of the literature I was reading left me feeling like it was a requirement & I felt kinda guilty about enjoying meat! Thanks for sharing your perspective. – Jules K May 18 2011 at 11:36
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Hey Jules! Unfortunately, that is very true. I love Buddha and the inspiration that comes from his writing!! but as I tell my Yoga Students when they practice the asanas "listen to your body". It took these words to realize that a diet of processed meat-like "foods" is not a healthy way of eating. We all must LISTEN TO OUR BODIES... no one else. – Carrisa May 19 2011 at 3:38
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My closest friend of 20+ years is vegetarian (though he eats eggs and seafood), and I am currently strict Paleo. We have dinner together 1-2x per week and travel together. I'm amused by his choices as he is by mine. A couple of years ago he successfully lost 50 pounds on his diet and is in great health.

We are both serious about our diet + health and do a lot of reading and research, but have just come to different conclusions, and each have something that works for us. We have also both tried lots of diets over the years and know not to get dogmatic about our choices even while remaining disciplined.

It is fun to come up with dinners that work not only for the two of us, but my family who are pretty non-Paleo. For example last night I made whole roasted rockfish, oysters on the half shell, broccolini, and basmati rice, with sorbet for dessert. Side dishes included salmon roe, spicy pickled radish, seaweed salad, and dried pineapple. You can't say that we suffered in any way and had a great time.

I think the idea that you can't be friends with someone because they eat differently is absolutely ridiculous, and might be a sign that you're taking yourself a bit too seriously.

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He's vegetarian even though he eats animals? Interesting. – Anonymous Coward May 17 2011 at 0:49
Not all vegetarians eat that way for ethical reasons, and not all vegetarians avoid all animal food products. It's a big world. – UncleLongHair May 17 2011 at 17:09
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If he eats seafood he is NOT vegetarian. – Wolfstroy May 17 2011 at 17:20
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"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it." - Voltaire – UncleLongHair May 18 2011 at 14:03
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I just moved someone who I found on craigslist into my old apartment. Just casually talking, we ferreted out that she was a vegetarian and that I was a "carnivore" (in her words). She told me that she couldn't stomach how awfully animals were treated and couldn't believe that I could either, and that she'd "probably" eat meat if the meat industry weren't as it is. I told her that I couldn't believe she'd make a judgment of my character after having known me for 15 minutes, especially after helping her move her damn fridge, and that I love animals and I'd only ever eat one if it came off a pasture both out of respect for the animal and for my own body. I dropped the knowledge-bomb about grass-fed farming, and she didn't even know such a crazy thing existed.

I told her all I knew about it, and punctuated it by asking her if she would consider eating meat now, you know, being that her vegetarianism was based on a reasonable moral inclination. Having listened to me demolish that moral avenue and replace it with an ethical alternative, she said she "probably won't" eat meat anyway. Ok!

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@becker: You gotta quit that shit, man. There's no point in having authority battles or anything. Get some quiet confidence and then just be rational, civil, calm, etc. People will start listening, believe me. It's only the people who get all touchy, get into authority fights, and generally just seem like they're trying to impress somebody... it's only those people who aren't taken seriously. You'll convince a lot more people if you simply stay calm and rational. Even if they laugh at you or seem disgusted, keep your composure, just stay calm and address their concerns. – Anonymous Coward May 17 2011 at 1:05
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Eh, it's hard to really flesh out what happened in 600 characters, but I didn't get authoritative. I never do -- I have a serious problem with people who do, and I make sure never to do it myself. There's more to the story than my cliffnotes version, but she got very up her own ass about how animals are treated (assuming CAFO) and how anyone who eats them is a douche. Her words pretty much came out like that, so I took a little offense and blinded her with science. No, really. I don't think she even tried to process what I told her. Preconceived notions, man... they're the worst. – becker May 17 2011 at 1:14
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I guess I should add that being atheist, paleo, apolitical, skeptical, countercultural, etc., it's pretty much become necessary to have "quiet confidence" as you say. Otherwise, I wouldn't have any friends I could coexist with without getting into arguments. I trust my own knowledge because I know where it came from. When someone pejoratively and maliciously slings a bullshit remark my way, though, I usually bite, and that's when "quiet" disappears and "confident" alone has to make an appearance. – becker May 17 2011 at 1:30
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That said, there are times where I couldn't care less about appearing knowledgeable and instead I'll call bullshit on whatever slighted me. Such as it were halfway up the steps to my apartment when she judged a guy she just met because he ate meat. No one should do this. Anyway, apolitical = I feel no patriotism or link to any nation, and I think the intrigue between and within nations is a game of self-interest and power-grabbing that is beyond relevance to my life -- thus, I only occasionally concern myself with any political issue or newspiece because, well, what am I to do about it? – becker May 17 2011 at 2:23
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I went to the Mises Institute's site. It rang home once again that, begrudgingly, I'm having to admit to myself little by little that I might be something like a libertarian... my communist father would not abide. In any case, there's some interesting and highly-relevant ideology there, but I find the less I consider politics and news in general, the more satisfied I am with what is at arm's-reach in my life. – becker May 17 2011 at 3:26
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Strangely enough all three of my closest friends are vegetarian or (borderline) vegan. No problems whatsoever. I don't get preachy or smug about my diet and they extend the same courtesy to me. In fact it's really a non-issue. Though I do have to laugh a little inwardly when they complain how "unfair" it is that I am so lean/fit even though I eat meat and fish instead of "healthy" soy and beans :D

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Must be one o' them "paradoxes" ;) – A at Grain Free Diet May 17 2011 at 1:30
Just the idea of living on soy and beans...... only if I had too – Mark V May 17 2011 at 14:12
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What vegetarian friends?

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My vegetarian friends don't seem to care very much, honestly. The most heated food debate I've had came with someone who follows Weight Watchers, and was regarding the high-fat content of paleo diets (she was a bit irritated by my "fat doesn't make you fat" comment) rather than the animal-flesh component.

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yeah I've had more issues with WW's zealots than vegetarians. My mother is a lifetime member of WW's... lost 50 pounds and has kept it off for 20 years. The funny part is she NEVER ate fake low fat food and she still thinks it's the WW's that did it. She eats full fat yogurt, real cheese, marbled beef, and has never had margarine in her house as long as I've been alive. Just olive oil and butter. – Aughra May 17 2011 at 0:38
boy is that right... I don't really know any vegetarians but it's hard to remain calm when people start talking about how butter etc is "gonna clog your arteries" and upon giving CRAP to my child they say "well its low fat, a little sugar won't kill him" aughhhhhhhhhhh I really could go on but I know I am preaching to the choir :) – Andrea S. May 17 2011 at 2:59
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Admit to them that you have indeed become a cannibal. After all, if you can eat one kind of meat then you can eat another (human meat). After all, that's their point, isn't it? Then you can point out that plants have a sensual life all of their own, are living beings, and that therefore, they (your friends) should take the next logical step: stop eating and become breatharians. Ask them, if it's ok if you roast them after they have succumbed to that "lifestyle choice".

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hey, why the downvote? – Thomas Seay May 17 2011 at 1:12
Plus one......... – The Quilt May 17 2011 at 1:16
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My sister and her husband do an Ornish style pescatarian diet. We talk about nutrition together all the time. We both understand and respect each other's position. We also make fun of each other a lot, but we're sisters and don't take it seriously.

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I think if people take it too seriously it can be a problem. The friends I have that are vegetarians vary in response to my diet. The ones that identify them selves by diet do. The ones that see it as just one part of there whole don't. That's fine with me.

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There are certain topics that can lead to rather heated conversations especially by those who don't agree with you.

My tactic has always been passive aggressive, so while they may try to bate me into a discussion where they'll try to bully me, they are usually enjoying a primal/paleo appetizer or some other dish I've made for them and they are loving it.

I love turning the tables on them this way!!

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Your strategy with dealing with vegetarians/vegans is to feed them animals while they try to bully you?? – Anonymous Coward May 17 2011 at 0:50
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I have vegetarian/vegan friends, they still talk to me but never about our diets. We respect that we are all different. We talk and hang out together on the basis that we have the same spiritual "bond" with nature, or at least we feel that we do so that keeps us off the topic of diet.

I do admit though, some of them are the most unhealthy people I know.... yet the perceive their selves to be healthy. but thats not because they don't eat meat, its because all they eat is "organic, vegan, vegetarian" junk food.

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most, but not all, of the vegetarians I know certainly to not look healthy (if that means anything.) – Mark V May 17 2011 at 14:21
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I have two vegetarian friends. One is an older man who simply thinks the very idea of eating meat is "gross." (He also thinks the smell of bacon frying is "nasty" but otherwise doesn't seem to be a danger to himself or society, so no one has tried to have him committed. Yet.) I can respect that a whole lot more than the friend who is a long-time vegetarian for health reasons. She'll carry on and on about how Americans are so fat because of all the fatty meat we consume (good gawd, don't even get her started on The China Study) and was thrilled when the new USDA dietary guidelines came out earlier this year because they endorsed a "more plant-based diet."

This friend, however, suffers from a multitude of health problems - reduced thyroid function, borderline diabetes, screamingly high triglycerides and such scary high blood pressure that she needs to carry nitroglycerine pills with her everywhere she goes - and she is only 52. But it's all genetic and heredity, you know; it couldn't be her diet. NEVER her diet.

I spend a lot of time going "mmmm-hmmm" and "you don't say" when she talks about her diet and her health.

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I was rather surprised at how negatively my vegan/vegetarian friends reacted. I thought they were better than that. Goes to show how much brainwash is involved in ve*ganism. I sure feel like I've been suffering from severe brainfog all these years. Hearing vegan propaganda now feels like getting abducted by aliens :D

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