Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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Dr Devany has been warning of this risk of death for a long time.

http://www.arthurdevany.com/articles/20110531

Sadly, we have a triathlon death to report from the Greely Tribune. And, just this morning I met my Marine buddy who has been doing triathlons for the past 5 years. I was simply shocked at the way he looked, there is no other way to describe it.

The start of a triathlon is among the most dangerous parts of the race. Plunging into cold water in the morning with a hundred or more other competitors thrashing in the water is confusing and panic inducing. It is likely, this young doctor had a heart condition; which, being a doctor there is no excuse for. An existing condition is not so difficult to spot and for a doctor to risk his life and his family's welfare without checking is hard for me to understand. Alas, we all think we are invulnerable.

My Marine friend is described in my book; when I met him he was leather-tough looking, trim, tall, and tan. Just the way a Marine ought to be, though he is a retired one. He began triathlons a short while after I moved into my community. Within a year he was limping most of the time and had lost his tan---he had gone over to indoor training on the treadmills and stationary bikes.

A few years later, he had a heart attack on a training ride. He was pretty far from home and lucky someone stopped and got an ambulance out.

Dr DeVany has been warning of this for years.

Now, he had a massive fall in his last triathlon and severely damaged his right shoulder. He had extensive surgery done and a titanium rod put in. Today, he is a stooped over, greyed, emasciated old man. He looks at least 20 years older and still has that limp.

His smile, and once-firm handshake are gone.

The Newspaper Report http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/warning-over-triathlon-death-rate-1690626.html

And it is not running that is the problem...it is the endurance events and training that are the problem. The Quilt says up to 400 meters only....or a 5k run but no more.

edited Jun 2 2011 at 7:36

Paul
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asked Jun 1 2011 at 22:26

Dexter
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even when i was 17 and in top notch physical condition, you couldn't have paid me enough money to run more than 400 meters at a time in a competitive event. I ran the mile only because they made me, but I didn't compete in it. I ran 1 or 2 mile warm ups for track practice (less if i could get away with it...) and happily went on my way to sprint or jumping practice. but there are some people who are just really into that sort of thing. I may think they are crazy, but i respect what makes them happy. no one is making you run a marathon. so, chill out, do what you do best and forget the rest! – Leanne Jun 2 2011 at 0:41

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* goes out and runs 5 miles * I'm back ... what were you saying? XD – Allie Jun 2 2011 at 1:10

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YaY, running 5 miles is not marathoning. Good for you. – Dexter Jun 2 2011 at 1:27

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* has never done it, irl, but makes an effort and runs 21.2 miles more * Whew. * smiles at Dexter * – Allie Jun 2 2011 at 2:52

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Aw, shucks. It's all good though... it was worth it ... and frankly, I don't fear death (i.e. loss of stem cells going to speed up the process) ... I have one life to live and I'll die doing what I love. Cheers. – Allie Jun 2 2011 at 11:58

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sherpamelissa · Answer 1 · 2011-06-01 23:32:37Z UTC

Despite what the Quilt says, I enjoy running and doing biathlons and triathlons. I have learned not to over train and really just do them for the experience.

Running and swimming and biking may not be the very best way to be active for longevity, but they make me happy, which is good for longevity. And ALL OF IT is better than when I was obese, sitting on my ass at home, stuffing my face full of SAD food.

Kamal · Answer 2 · 2011-06-02 00:05:18Z UTC

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Seriously?

You already started the endurance athletics causes cancer hack, the running leads to heart attacks hack, and the marathoners look like skeletons hack.

We get it, you think long distance running is bad! Not that I run, at all actually, but I will support rational discussion about exercise to my last breath. It's worth saying for the umpteenth time that correlation does not equal causation. And the presence of a biological mechanism doesn't indicate the one and only absolute truth for everyone.

(p.s. no hard feeling dexter, just that some more balanced conversation might be in order)

answered Jun 2 2011 at 0:05

Kamal♦
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Kamal, let me just state what everybody has known all along: Endurance athletics are what caused 9/11. – Thomas Seay Jun 2 2011 at 0:10

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Really? I heard that the planes were hijacked by a gang of high-fructose fruits. – Kamal♦ Jun 2 2011 at 0:14

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Kamal, it's not about running, it's about marathoning and triathalons. I run some at 68. I just think people should be aware of the choices they make when entering an endurance event. It is just what is. And it is Dr De Vany reporting on his life experiences..that's all. – Dexter Jun 2 2011 at 0:21

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I want to thank Dexter for posting this. The board has been really boring the last few days and this one perked everybody up. I am going to give him a one-up just for that! – Thomas Seay Jun 2 2011 at 0:31

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Thanks, Thomas. – Dexter Jun 2 2011 at 0:35

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Thomas Seay · Answer 3 · 2011-06-01 23:19:27Z UTC

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Yes, I think they are ok. I don't care to do them. But I also wonder if the bad effects have not been exaggerated. I have a cousin who is 54 and runs marathons. He looks fine and, as far as I know, suffers from no particular health problems. When he was young he had a bad broken leg and, as a result, was never able to be good at other sports due to that. So, this is a sport at which he does pretty well. He enjoys it. Got news for everybody here. You're going to die, so you might as well do something that you love. Are you going to be on your death bed and congratulate yourself for your "healthy lifestyle", all the while regretting the things you didn't do, because they were not so-called "healthy"? Screw that. If you love running long distance or doing triathlons, keep in mind the possible negatives, and enjoy yourself doing what you love.

answered Jun 1 2011 at 23:19

Thomas Seay

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Up this one. If people love it let them go for it. I will not judge my 60 year old friend who has been endurance trail running for years. – baconbitch Jun 1 2011 at 23:33

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People are fond of saying on here that correlation does not equal causation. People are going to die running marathons. People are going to die bench pressing. People are going to die whacking off. Jim Fixx, the guy who started the "jogging" revolution died from a heart attack. However, it's not mentioned he came from a family with a history of heart problems, and that those family members died much earlier than he did. CONTEXT is everything. – Thomas Seay Jun 1 2011 at 23:54

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get a cardiac Pet scan and come talk to me. if you marathon or endurance run you have autophagic aging in the heart period. You replace cardiac myocytes with scar. All you need to do is get the test and call BS on me. research that is published shows endurance athletes had 100% changes compared to controls who had zero. This site it too hack. And you have to explain the high cardiac death rate in endurance athletes. I will. – The Quilt Jun 2 2011 at 1:34

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ekg measures the conduction system.....no myocardial fibrosis Sherpa. That is why these cats drop dead of sudden cardiac death. No cells no energy cause they kill all their cardiac stem cells. – The Quilt Jun 2 2011 at 4:36

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The heart fails because of Autophagy. And as we age Autophagy as a process does not work as well. But what occurs in endurance athletes all the ROS at the mitochondrial cause stem cell depletion. And hence you get what we see in endurance athletes. Not one who has been tested has had a clean heart. Very few want to know after they see the ACA data. Even conventional cardiology is shocked at the result. Im not. Again biology does not lie. Science is truth. – The Quilt Jun 2 2011 at 4:38

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MF · Answer 4 · 2011-06-01 23:59:47Z UTC

I don't blame the event, I blame the training. I have kicked around the idea of triathlon but only because it is a challenge. Chronic over-training(stress) paired with a "healthy" diet(grains and seed oils) are most likely more of a culprit than the events themselves.

My biggest issues have always been entry fees and equipment costs.

Allie · Answer 5 · 2011-06-02 03:51:15Z UTC

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I love to run long distances.

I will continue to do so.

You are welcome to visit me on my death-bed.

answered Jun 2 2011 at 3:51

Allie
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	Can I just take you out to dinner instead? – Thomas Seay Jun 2 2011 at 13:58
	Hahahaha. Sure, so long as there's grass-fed beef. XD – Allie Jun 3 2011 at 0:50

Eric · Answer 6 · 2011-06-02 06:35:43Z UTC

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Compare a top sprinter to a top marathoner. the sprinter has muscle. The marathoner not so much...

At the 45 minute mark or so of exercise cortisol kicks in and starts eroding muscle mass.

I have switched my workouts to be 8 sprints 3 times a week with rest inbetween and one leasurely run.

answered Jun 2 2011 at 6:35

Eric
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Whoa, 45 minutes? What about the body releasing stored fat as fuel...? – themobiustrip Jun 2 2011 at 16:20

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That depends on your heart rate. For me 131 bpm is the point where I am still burning more fat than glucose. As my heart rate increases I burn more calories however less of them are coming from fat. Until i reach my anerobic rate which is my highest sustainable heart rate. You can get an assesment newleaffitness.com/Business/…Which will let you do this. Worth it in my opinion. Recived this as a gift for Christmas. For more Paleo hacks: paleohacks.com/questions/41600/… – Eric Jun 3 2011 at 5:13

Jeff · Answer 7 · 2011-06-02 00:45:11Z UTC

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Crossfit endurance does a fantastic job of training endurance athletes with WAY less volume than traditionally done in those sports.

answered Jun 2 2011 at 0:45

Jeff
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not according to Robb Wolf.......old crossfit days did but not the new WOD. You need to listen to his podcast over the last few years he has soured on crossfit as they have lost their way here lately as they have expanded – The Quilt Jun 2 2011 at 1:36

Crossfit home office in Wash, Dc has lost their way...but some boxes reject the dogma coming out of the home office. Some but not all, sadly. – Dexter Jun 2 2011 at 2:20

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I did hear Robb say that about crossfit. However Crossfit endurance is a completely different branch. Well, somewhat related obviously but the guys that started it and do the programing really have their shit together. I'm not a fan of general crossfit but I can't say enough good things about crossfit endurance. – Jeff Jun 2 2011 at 3:37

Jeff · Answer 8 · 2011-06-06 00:45:43Z UTC

To add more fuel to this fire, endurance sports may not be healthy but they are paleo...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15549097

I should also add that the day this question was posted, I found out that a member of my cycling club (45 yr old man, rode a LOT of miles) died of a heart attack.

Harry · Answer 9 · 2011-06-02 03:13:01Z UTC

I walked one half marathon. I'm glad I did but probably wouldn't do it again.

The club I trained with (Sacfit in Sacramento, CA) brought in Mark Sisson to speak. That's where I heard of paleo/primal. The club has a very primal friendly approach to training. Increasingly long runs/walks just once a week, with two sprint sessions in between. The turn out lots of excellent competitors. Only a few of the elite runners look like skeletons. If running is your passion, you can do it without too much damage to yourself.

ben61820 · Answer 10 · 2011-06-06 00:50:21Z UTC

I've never done a marathon or even a really long run but yesterday I completed the Spartan Race in tuxedo park NY. Only 3.5 miles but it took me 1 hour 18 minutes:) I'm pretty fit, too. Wasn't easy but not too hard either. Good time. I'd say as far as fitness that is popular within paleo circles, it'd make many of you happy. Very Crossfit like things, some movnat vibe too.

Kevin · Answer 11 · 2012-07-17 23:39:10Z UTC

Let's be clear. "Triathlon" is a big category. Training for a sprint triathlon is far less strenuous than say, training for a half Ironman. I doubt anyone has ever keeled over from doing a sprint tri! These races are a good way to get healthy without overdoing it.

tj · Answer 12 · 2012-07-18 05:13:17Z UTC

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i just jogged 6 times around a 400m track. i forgot my phone. next time ill just try to do as much as i can in 12minutes.

i feel good. im not gonna run a 20k or anything. i do hiit as well. ill continue.

answered Jul 18 at 5:13

tj
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Poop Master MC · Answer 13 · 2012-07-18 12:22:07Z UTC

I run 30 miles a week and have a long history of running but the marathon has never appealed to me, always seemed like a gimmick.

Better to work towards running a decent time in the 10k than to walk/run a marathon in 5 hours.

The attitude in paleo towards sports has always mystified me.

Are there any PaleoHackers that still think endurance athletic competition--like marathons and triathalons are ok?--Art DeVany reports a physician death by triathalon and a debilitation by triathalon. Would you as a paleohacker consider entering

13 Answers