Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

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I don't expect many with the hostility against endurance training but just wondering...

edited Jun 21 2011 at 13:25

Ed♦
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asked Jun 21 2011 at 11:17

Edward J. Edmonds
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What do you consider high mileage? – sherpamelissa Jun 21 2011 at 15:02

In elite running we tend to think in "hours spent training" which is somewhere between 10-15 hours of running per week, typically overall millage ends up laying somewhere between 90-120 miles depending on the distance that the athlete specializes in. Overall 80+ miles per week is the foundation to get into 13 min 5k territory. But I must emphasize that it's not just 80 miles of jogging. It's a balance between quality work to facilitate a stimulus and easy running and recovery miles to maintain improvements. – Edward J. Edmonds Jun 21 2011 at 15:44

Hobby jogging is quite a different training scenario than elite training structure. From that point of view I can very well see why arm chair joggers have injuries and health problems throughout their running "careers" and can definitely understand the caution when approaching endurance training in the Paleo biome. – Edward J. Edmonds Jun 21 2011 at 15:48

Even elite athletes are guilty of training improperly there are plenty of cases where elite runners drop over. But I can pretty much guarantee that this is not due to the running itself but rather to improper training and recovery debt. – Edward J. Edmonds Jun 21 2011 at 15:50

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If you spend time watching elite Ethiopian/Kenyans training year round it becomes very apparent why they can run effortlessly for years without any injuries because of how they modulate/polarize their training. This balance is not found in the American elite running culture which is why we don't dominate Internationally. – Edward J. Edmonds Jun 21 2011 at 15:56

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Dan · Answer 1 · 2011-06-22 00:15:44Z UTC

I've run six marathons. My most recent was the first one where I trained almost totally paleo, and it was also my fastest (3:38). The most important things to do when taking on a long-term running program are:

proper technique. If you slam your heels into the ground a hundred million times during training, you WILL have knee/other joint issues, and you will not race happy or well.
proper intensity. Mark Sissons' "chronic cardio" was only a problem (for me, anyway) when I would push myself too hard too often. Now, I know to take it easy for most of my runs (the "conversational pace"), and throw in sprints once or twice a week.
some of us are better suited to endurance sports than others. If you find that you can't race well without relying on decidedly non-paleo, unhealthy methods, perhaps consider a more recreational/relaxed approach to the sport. I know that I can't run 150 miles a week and stay paleo, so I limit myself to 60-75. I'll never be elite, or even particularly good, but so what? It's fun.

Luckylildevil7 · Answer 2 · 2011-06-21 11:39:21Z UTC

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I used to be until a knee injury sidelined me. I am doing paleo and crossfire as part of my rehab to keep in shape but I plan to start logging the miles soon. I would like to hit a marathon in about 6-8 months.

answered Jun 21 2011 at 11:39

Luckylildevil7
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I love crossfire! Such an exciting game. – Kamal♦ Jun 21 2011 at 13:42

TomInTexas · Answer 3 · 2011-06-21 11:53:58Z UTC

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I used to do 50+ mile bike rides 2-3X per week until school got in the way. I miss it :(

answered Jun 21 2011 at 11:53

TomInTexas
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smartcookie · Answer 4 · 2011-06-21 15:07:00Z UTC

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I love running -- I ran a (3:25-hr) marathon and used to run 40+ miles a week. I've cut down a lot of running in favor of resistance training, yoga and some biking. Now I do about 25 miles a week. I'm afraid I love it too much (addicted to endorphins?) to give up my long runs for good, but haven't noticed a difference in my pace with less mileage - in fact, I ran just 17 miles of a relay at a 6:45min-mi pace, which is fast for me.

I think some are more okay with distance running than others, but think that marathons are likely unhealthy for most. Discounting sprints, I don't think endurance running is the way to go if you need to lose weight. I'll have to post some before/after photos because I'm already noticing a difference lifting more and eating paleo. I also eat way fewer, but not "low" carb and still feel pretty good. Anyway, I'm open to experimentation with my workouts and mileage, so I'm interested to hear what other people think.

edited Jun 21 2011 at 15:07

answered Jun 21 2011 at 13:44

smartcookie
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I'd agree that there are more effective ways of loosing weight. In fact I think often times you'll get more results just walking rather than running. I've seen people loose a lot of weight just getting out and walking an hour a day. – Edward J. Edmonds Jun 21 2011 at 14:56

@Edward. I agree. I don't have to lose weight - still, I agree even so even individuals with a healthy weight may benefit more from non-running exercises. Then again, some people do just fine. I will also be keeping a close eye on my bone density, since I had very low vit D pre-paleo. There is an interesting discussion on exercise and longevity here: paleohacks.com/questions/39170/… Are you a runner yourself? – smartcookie Jun 21 2011 at 15:06

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@smartcookie Yes I'm a runner. I've reviewed a lot of literature on this I believe that diet and under-nourishment to include not eating enough explains the observations. Of course I'm biased. But I think if we look at the Kenyans and other African countries it becomes glaringly obvious why they thrive while those on engineered diets tend to fall over. How they approach training also plays a huge role. Recovery is central to their training principles. – Edward J. Edmonds Jun 21 2011 at 16:08

Great points. Thanks for the insight. It's definitely something I've been interested in. – smartcookie Jun 21 2011 at 17:45

Edward, what do you think of Cordain's recovery ideas or ideas in general in Paleo for Athletes? – Lance Jun 21 2011 at 19:29

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Rhubarb · Answer 5 · 2011-06-21 12:06:06Z UTC

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I used to log about 100km a week, until I got knocked over by a cyclist and have suffered a cascade of injuries since. That was 6 months ago.

Fingers crossed that 2 months or so and I'll be running again. I miss it.

Nothing quite like getting on mountain trail with just you and the wind and running for 3-4 hours. :)

answered Jun 21 2011 at 12:06

Rhubarb
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	Best. Feeling. Ever. – Todd Jun 21 2011 at 20:46
	Agreed! . – Rhubarb Jun 22 2011 at 0:03
	Times up. Are you back running? – Edward J. Edmonds Oct 15 2011 at 2:19

maryeeclarkisouthunting · Answer 6 · 2011-11-16 14:24:43Z UTC

I'm just delving into the distance running world (10+ miles on weekends), done all in five-fingers, sometimes fasted, always the best part of my week. I do weight training circuits during the week for balance but I will never look forward to them as much as my long runs. I'm running my first marathon in January and have friends lined up to hand me hot sweet potatoes at aid stations - unfortunately they won't run with me, and that companionship is the only thing I'm missing from my running. Persistence hunts probably weren't done entirely alone....

not_finbar · Answer 7 · 2011-11-16 14:39:49Z UTC

I used to be massively into running. I was never that great but i did bust out a 2h54m marathon in 2007. Shortly afterwards i got sidelined with various inflammation-related problems. It's actually one of the main reasons i ended up palaeo. After literally three or four years of very low mileage (maybe 15 miles a week), over the past few months i've found my body can tolerate a bit more. I'm doing 30-40 miles a week at the moment. I've not got any marathon plans in the near future but i'm working on getting my 5km PB down. I ran 17m28s last weekend - i'd like to get under 17m by next Spring.

Any high mileage runners out there?

7 Answers