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White rice is touted to be basically pure starch by Paul Jaminet on the basis that asain people eat it so it must be healthy right?

But it's not pure starch, it is a refined grain that most asain people haven't been eating that long.

Blockquote

Hakumai, polished rice came into use in the Genreku period at the end of the 17th century and the period at the beginning of the 18th century. It was the staple food prized by the emperors, nobles, warriors and wealthy merchants. Genmai, unpolished brown rice became the food of the poor.

Blockquote -http://www.hawaii.hawaii.edu/nursing/tradjapan2.htm

White rice still has phytic acid:

FOOD-Brown rice- MIN=0.84 MAX=0.99 FOOD-Polished rice- MIN=0.14 MAX=0.60

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid#cite_ref-16

One phytic acid molecule has the ability to lock up many nutrients: alt text

White rice is a poor source of all nutrients and phytic acid in white rice binds up lots of important nutrients like minerals, vitamins, and protein.

So why would anyone eat white rice over potatoes or other underground storage organs which are legitimately paleo and don't contain phytic acid?

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lol LOTS of "paleo" foods contain phytic acid. The dose makes the poison. USOs have their own antinutrients. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Jun 22 2011 at 13:15
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My theory on Jaminet's apparent love of white rice is his Chinese wife. My own wife is Chinese (well, Taiwanese). When I explain that maybe white rice is not so good for optimal health, I get the speech about Chinese people eating rice for thousands of years, blah blah blah. Bottom line: you try telling a Chinese person that rice is anything less than good for you and you happen to be that person's husband, well, basically you'll be sleeping on the sofa for a week. – John Naruwan Jun 22 2011 at 13:47
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I would think beriberi would give anyone pause before declaring white rice a "safe" starch. In small amounts it might not be deadly, but I don't see that it's much safer than wheat flour, which, as far as I know, has never been behind an epidemic of thiamine deficiency (other long-term, chronic problems, yes, but beriberi is devastating and fast). – Rose Jun 22 2011 at 14:23
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Well, Chris Kresser is also an advocate of white rice and he's not married to a Chinese woman. I think this "wife is leading us to do untoward Paleo thang" theory leaves much to be desired! Don's wife made him turn Ornish. Now Paul's wife has turned him into a white rice fiend? Paul's also into potatoes, yams, sweet potatoes, and yuca! – Namby Pamby Jun 22 2011 at 16:12
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Nicely said, Namby Pamby. All these wife theories as of late make me a little uneasy. – Erik Cisler Jun 22 2011 at 16:30
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19 Answers

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I'm sorry but I have to play on the side that there are greater things to worry about than the small amount of phytic acid in white rice. We avoid so much phytic acid eating Paleo as it is. Most people get far higher levels with all their whole grain consumption. White rice contains far less phytic acid than brown rice since the outside shell is removed. I pretty much see white rice as a starch filler. It doesn't really contain nutrients, but then again, that's not the point of rice. Sure, tubers have more nutrients, and I think tuber starch is better overall than white rice But in the context of a nutrient rich, whole foods diet, there is no way you are going to be gorging on enough white rice to be concerned about whatever little the phytic acid the rice has. It's not going to block the nutrition density in your other whole foods.

kresser, guyenet, harris, jaminets - they all eat some rice.

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+1 there's phytic acid and other antinutrients in so many foods. For most of us, trying to avoid them 100% will only lead to pointless obsessing about food. – Olivia Jun 22 2011 at 18:01
guyenet eats processed brown rice and thinks white rice is nutrient poor and therefore not a good item to eat in our nutrient deprived civilization – cliff Jun 23 2011 at 1:08
nutrient poor - agreed. but deleterious? i don't really think so. – Jack Kronk Jun 23 2011 at 14:00
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Well, white rice is gluten/fructose/n6 free, so there's that. Suboptimal? Yes. Pure evilz? No.

Potatoes, even white ones, have a way better nutrition profile. But some people will do better on rice. I would say read, think, test and optimize yourself - there is no other way.

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i think a lot has to do with your gut health – Mallory Jun 23 2011 at 15:05
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I like rotating through the safe starches - white rice, plantain, squashes/pumpkin, potatoes, yams, throughout the week. I find variety tastes good and you obtain different nutrients form different foods. – Lady_Arwen Jan 15 2012 at 1:20
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Hi all,

I enjoyed this thread enough, I had to do a post about it: "Is Shou-Ching to blame for our rice habit?," http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=3855.

Best, Paul

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"Shou-Ching is so nice, when she gets mad at me she goes out and sleeps on the sofa!" Funny! – Kamal Jun 24 2011 at 2:15
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Nice post. Very cool of you to take time out to discuss our little forum here. Cheers. – ben61820 Jun 24 2011 at 2:35
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Thanks for the clarification paul. I think you missed the point though, I wasn't totally concerned with phytic acid. My main concern is that eating rice will displace nutrient dense carbs from the diet which provide nutrients that liver, eggs and even most vegetables won't be able to provide in significant amounts such as magnesium and potassium. Most people assume they are getting all nutrients most don't actually check, this mindset combined with white rice can lead to sub-optimal nutrient intake. – cliff Jun 24 2011 at 17:25
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Plus the RDA for magnesium is pretty damn low at 400mg. So even if you hit RDA are you optimal paleo? probably not. – cliff Jun 24 2011 at 17:26
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Great post Paul - and safe starches worked well for the hubby and I. We don't eat huge amounts but the carbs amounts you recommended have worked for us. I think rotating through cassava, yams, potatoes, white rice, plantains, etc. (unless issues with any of them) for variety, nutrition, and taste is fine. – Lady_Arwen Jan 15 2012 at 1:22
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Years I ago I spent some time in Micronesia - Truk mostly, and once took the "field trip ship" (a junker which could have been in a Humphrey Bogart movie). This rust bucket took a circuit around the "outer islands" every few weeks, mostly delivering people, cigarettes and bushels of white rice. And picking up people and sacks of copra (dried coconut - the locals never touched the stuff).

They had gotten into the white rice habit because of long-time occupation by the Japanese, and later after WWII they qualified for USDA money thus the bags of white rice (and Jane Fonda movies shown in grass huts - but that's another story).

You can totally predict what happened to them: a normally healthy and robust people suddenly encountered the "Western Diet" and lo! and behold they gain weight, get diabetes, need dentists - all the so-called "modern" diseases.

This wasn't solely caused directly by white rice of course. But because of that free rice dropped off on their beaches every month or so they weren't eating their traditional foods. Fewer fish because why bother with the canoes (and now chickens were everywhere)? The coconut groves and taro plants not tended, and so on. The cigarettes didn't help either.

So maybe white rice in small amounts is fine - but as a staple? I don't think so.

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Good observation - the biggest problem with white rice (in the absence of problems like phytic acid or lectins) is that it displaces more nutrient dense foods. – permiechickie Jun 22 2011 at 17:09
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Also, their idea of "variation" at a party was several huge vats of white rice, each with different food coloring. So there would be a pot of red rice, blue rice, green rice and so on. Nothing like variety, eh? – CaveRat Jun 22 2011 at 17:29
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I wish that I preferred tubers to white rice all the time! As it stands I"m just starting to get used to more tubers... better than wheat though. "That Paleo Guy" recently had an interesting post where we went to an island and saw that rice was displacing tubers as a starch for people that moved away from their villages to the main city... it was seen as kind of a status symbol. thatpaleoguy.blogspot.com/2011/06/… – permiechickie Jun 22 2011 at 19:00
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ironic isn't it, that 'status symbols' - in excess - are so bad for one! Almost better to call them 'status diseases.' – CaveRat Jun 22 2011 at 19:10
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the biggest problem with white rice (in the absence of problems like phytic acid or lectins) is that it displaces more nutrient dense foods. YES! – cliff Jun 23 2011 at 1:25
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Don't forget that some of us with arthritis/autoimmune issues do better without nightshades - and that includes potatoes. So, a little bit of white rice in my sushi or a half a cup on my plate once in a while (WITH a liberal dose of good butter - yum) is NOT something I'm gonna stress about.

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This yes!! If I eat white potatoes I look like I'm 5 months pregnant, almost instantly! – Carly Jun 23 2011 at 10:37
Oh my gosh, can I relate. I seriously used to LOVE potatoes... in every and all forms. Lol. I loved all of the variations of cooking them... but they always made me feel weird. I didn't understand why until I did more research & found out about nightshades & Paleo, etc. It totally explains my aversion to eggplant, too. Bummer though, since I love taters... – Esther Aug 12 2011 at 3:15
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I fixed Wikipedia. As you can see from the table now, taro and cassava have phytic acid too. I'll continue adding values from that paper later in the day. I seriously doubt any of you are in danger of beriberi. The USOs that hunter-gatherers use are usually toxic enough to require days of processing. Chemical toxicity doesn't make a food "paleo" or not.

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"The USOs that hunter-gatherers use are usually toxic enough to require days of processing. Chemical toxicity doesn't make a food "paleo" or not." Is there any paleo food that traditional people eat that has phytic acid after processing? Since most paleo plants are poisonous unless processed I figured that the processing would get rid of the phytic acid. My whole post isn't about phytic acid, it is mainly about putting white rice and potatoes in the same category, which is very misleading to the average person(who does no research and doesn't input their food to see their nutrient density). – cliff Jun 22 2011 at 20:13
People assume just because they eat paleo they are getting all nutrients. It is total bologna. And I would bet that a MOST people would benefit from eating less white rice and more whole food starches like potatoes. Or at least the white rice Gurus should give a explanation about how white rice is totally devoid of nutrition so you should make sure you're getting all nutrients and not assume paleo owns any diet in nutrition density. Or I guess we can supplement like all the gurus because hey they can't eat potatoes to get enough copper and magnesium. – cliff Jun 22 2011 at 20:16
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I've never seen a paleo writer advocate white rice as a staple food. I've only ever seen it in the context of basically a "starch supplement" for people who need to perform athletically or otherwise need more carbs for some reason. Virtually all paleo takes emphasize animal foods (meat and organs) as the way to get most nutrients, with plants as side dishes, and starches as needed. So I'm not sure what Paleo flavor advocates eating enough white rice to worry about beriberi or any deficiency. – pfw Jun 22 2011 at 20:49
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For me it's something filling to eat if there is nothing else available and it's an option for eating out and feeding the BF if he complains I didn't make enough steak. IMHO a lot of roots are garbage too. I stopped eating cassava when I looked at the nutritiondata. It's really just plain starch. Sago palm starch, relied on by hunter-gatherers, is similar. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Jun 23 2011 at 0:37
And I don't have data on many hunter-gather foods post-processing. Maybe someday. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Jun 23 2011 at 0:38
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I love how paleo crowd is worried sick about phytic acid in stuff like rice (easily soaked out in preparation of cooking mind you), but they'll wolf down nuts and nut butters like crazy which contain much higher levels (chart http://bit.ly/o1kV5W). This is a perfect example of brainwashing within the community.

Hey, we've all been there. Add on the widely excepted 80/20 rule (eating crap) or binge eating (more crap) because they're so carb starved trying to avoid these "anti-nutrients" and "sugar/carbs." Add it all up and it's probably bouncing off the amount of phytic acid in an industrial diet.

Ease up. It's not killing the asians and it's whole hell of a lot better than what you're consuming in your nuts and "20" time.

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I think the bigger issue is nutrient density of white rice. Cliff never said anything about avoiding carbs. In other posts cliff says he eats 500+grams of carbs per day. – WaveHunter Jul 11 2011 at 22:49
I think you have a point in regards to a lot of paleo people but I think you missed this part of my post "So why would anyone eat white rice over potatoes or other underground storage organs which are legitimately paleo and don't contain phytic acid?". As Wavehunter stated I eat over 500 grams of carb a day so I'm definitely not carb phobic. – cliff Jul 11 2011 at 22:52
"they'll wolf down nuts and nut butters like crazy". Not really. Most posts I've seen around here talk about limiting nuts. Where do you get your information about the "paleo crowd"? Also, consider portion size. Majority of paleos are not going to eat 100g of nuts in a meal. Probably an ounce (28g). Whereas small, densely packed grains like oats and brown rice are easy to consume in amounts over 100g. Also, if you actually read some of the posts on "deathhacks" and not just the ones that are antagonistic to your opinion, you'll see that a very large chunk of us are carb friendly. – Phoenix Jul 11 2011 at 23:19
Well I think poor Grok is just expressing a basic contrarian feeling. I been there. Not a big deal. I agree that many on hacks here aren't gobbling nuts. I'm sure some people somewhere are so I suppose he can say that. – ben61820 Jul 11 2011 at 23:24
I know cliff's not a carb phobe & I'm glad ;) @cliff, They do contain phytates roughly as much as white rice before the soaking ;) - @phoenix, Statement wasn't necessarily targeted at hacks community. More of a "open your eyes." Especially newbies. Will admit to seeing consumption coming down in the past year. Phytate levels still much higher even if the consumption of nuts is much lower. Dry weights. I do read many of them. Not interested in replying. @ben not a contrarian. You're probably my fav commenter BTW. See recipe/gourmet, cravers, newbies, low-carbers. Seen years of meal tweets. – Grok Jul 12 2011 at 2:08
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Lots of paleo foods also have low levels of phytic acid. White rice is as low in phytic acid as some paleo foods, so why not use it in your diet? Obsessing over low levels of anti-nutrients is likely more unhealthy than the anti-nutrients themselves.

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What paleo foods? Nuts/seeds/grains(which real paleos processed with leaching in streams, roasting and what not)? I'm not obsessing about anything read my post above I'll eat a McDonalds tomorrow. Don't care about Paleo Nazism just pointing out that white rice is not comparable to other true safe starches and white rice should be treated like other grains(used minimally at most). Paul Jaminet makes it seem like if I ate a paleo diet plus rice I equal paleo diet plus potatoes, which is total BS check out the nutrient profile yourself. – cliff Jun 22 2011 at 13:45
Most plant matter contains some phytic acid, ranging from lowish amounts (tomatoes, okra e.t.c), moderate amounts (cocounts) and high amounts (cocoa, tea and leafy greens like spinach and kale). – Simibee Jun 22 2011 at 14:27
Well, phytic acid aside, there's still the glycemic impact, and the fact that the body will probably freak out from the sugar, lol. But I dunno... I guess in combination with proteins, the impact wouldn't probably be significantly less. I mean, hopefully nobody's going to eat a bowl of rice by itself. – Esther Aug 12 2011 at 3:16
Oops, I meant "the impact would probably be..." – Esther Aug 12 2011 at 3:17
Why would the body freak out from the sugar? We are designed to consume and digest all macronutrients. Excess (in amount and frequency) carbohydrate is the problem (metabolic stressor). Moderate consumption is not an issue. A bowl or cup of rice now and then lies more on the moderation side of things. – Matt Aug 19 2011 at 19:30
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Paul Jaminet's blog post 'Can there be a carbohydrate deficiency?' Dr. Rosedale's response.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=201273169942000

i.e. Paul Jaminet's blog post 'Can there be a carbohydrate deficiency?' i.e. Is there a need for carbs?;

Paul Jaminet answers his question affirmatively by stating, "The brain is the biggest determinant of glucose needs. While other primates need only about 7% of energy as glucose or ketones, humans need about 20%. Compared to other primates, humans have a 12% smaller liver. This means we can’t manufacture as much glucose from protein as animals can. Humans also have a 40% smaller gut. This means we can’t manufacture many short-chain fatty acids, which supply ketones or glucogenic substrates, from plant fiber. So, while animals can meet their tiny glucose needs (5% of calories) in their big livers, humans may not be able to meet our big glucose needs (20-30% of calories) from our small livers. So any carbohydrate deficiency disease will strike humans only, not animals." Though good thoughts, I must disagree with Paul conceptually and factually. The brain needing 20% glucose is only under conditions of insufficient adaptation to burning ketones. Basic metabolic textbooks talk about adaptation to carbohydrate "starvation" when the brain starts deriving the vast majority of its energy needs from ketones derived from fat metabolism. After several weeks of adaptation the brain can derive at least 80% of its energy needs from ketones. After a longer period of time it can derive more. Regardless, the remainder of the brain's energy needs can be met from gluconeogenesis using glycerol derived from the breakdown of triglycerides as substrate such that gluconeogenesis derived from amino acids is minimal to nonexistent, sparing lean mass. In fact, my patients who strictly adhered to my very low carbohydrate dietary recommendations generally increased lean mass without increasing exercise.

The size of the human liver has little to nothing to do with its metabolic abilities. Rather, it's adaptation to available nutrients and even more importantly its control by, and indeed its sensitivity to metabolic hormones such as insulin and leptin are much more important to its function. Eating 100 g of glucose forming carbohydrates daily is enough to sufficiently raise insulin to shut down ketone production by the liver resulting in the necessity to use glucose as fuel by the brain. As such, what Jaminet is recommending is a self-fulfilling prophecy; requiring the consumption of glucose forming carbohydrates such as potatoes and rice increases blood glucose and insulin enough to greatly reduce ketone production, necessitating the use of glucose by the brain. This is not good. I have talked decades about the change in brain function when it converts from glucose to primarily ketone use; it becomes much healthier. Studies are now pouring in on the connection between glucose and chronic brain diseases. Jaminet rightly mentions the benefit of increasing ketone use in epilepsy. Epilepsy is an extreme of an over excitable brain. Is it possible that a brain primarily burning ketones as its primary fuel may function better all of the time? I believe strongly that the answer to this is yes.

Further counterpoints to the need for carbs;

I have never seen a list of essential nutrients that included a single carbohydrate. This means, that as far as current science knows, a human being does not have to take a single gram of carbohydrate their entire life to maintain health. This is because it is well known that although there is a certain need for carbohydrates and sugars, the body can make what it needs from other sources, either triglycerides or proteins. If the body is using fat as its primary fuel, then it needs (much) less glucose. The glucose that is necessary (more for anaerobic red blood cells than the brain) can either come from glycerol from the breakdown of triglycerides or from glucogenic amino acids that would be much less desirable. Deriving glucose from amino acids from protein requires either the consumption of excess protein–not good (I have written much about this previously) or the breakdown of lean mass–obviously not good, but no choice if one can't eat i.e. while sleeping. So the real question becomes, not whether carbohydrates are needed, but what other sources will the body use as substrates to make the glucose that it needs while not necessitating oral consumption. By far, the best substrate for glucose manufacture is glycerol, but this is largely only available if one is oxidizing fatty acids from triglycerides, and this is not possible when one consumes glucose forming foods such as rice and potatoes thus raising insulin and leptin and shutting off fatty acid oxidation.

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Fiona,Vanderbilt University did a meta analysis about 5 yrs ago with a supercomputer on the optimal diet.....the results revealed the top fifty foods one could live on were all devoid of carbs......So your point is well taken. Our bodies dont need carbs at all. Our livers can make the carbs we need. People think they need carbs therefore they become essential to their own biases. Their perception becomes their reality. We are omnivores so we can use carbs if they exist. In paleo times carbs were plentiful in summer months in the northern and southern hemispheres and yr round at equator – The Quilt Oct 5 2011 at 2:44
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The brain needs no glucose.....it can run on ketones indefinitely. I can show you many cases in our ICU's on ketogenic diets for months overcoming brain injuries who walk out of the hopsital intact neurologically. The notion that our brain needs glucose is 1960's nonsense. – The Quilt Oct 5 2011 at 2:46
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Quilt, isn't the argument not whether carbs are essential but that carbs are preferred as glucose rather than via gluconeogenesis? The latter is more stressful on the body and is "hormetic". There are far more starchy-based diets than ketogenic diets. So which form of metabolism are humans adapted to? Both, probably. But which is it more suited based on sheer exposure by many more tribes than the Masais and Inuits? – Namby Pamby Oct 5 2011 at 3:15
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In other words, ketosis seems to be a temporary adaptation designed to be hormetic, just like intermittent fasting. As humans, we're metabolically flexible. But being flexible doesn't mean one should become ketogenic indefinitely. Intermittently, yes, in times of famine. But all the time when you have tubers abound? I mean, why kill yourself corralling a boar when you have a tuber already dug up with your walking stick? – Namby Pamby Oct 5 2011 at 3:19
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TL;DR. nice pic though:)

I jest. Because it tastes good, prolly. Its just another not-too-bad food option. There are people on these boards that have been doing the paleo thing for quite some time (years) and I suppose after a while the mind will wander. I do sprouted corn tortillas pretty regularly, too.

Also, the healthier one gets from a good clean, basic paleo template (there you go, Chris, used template for you!) practiced for a long time, the more you can tolerate, and run pretty darn well off of, less-than-optimal options.

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What happens when you go too far back into the territory of "tolerate less than optimal" and you have to go back to super clean? There's a fine line and do you find yourself swinging back and forth? – JakeA Jun 22 2011 at 13:19
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All I'm saying is why would you do any grain over tubers which have way more nutrients and the nutrients are way more bioavailable. If you gonna start doing stuff because it taste good might as well start eating cookies or ice cream. I'm not a paleo nazi I'll eat rice, gluten, whatever don't really care. But it's misleading to put white rice in the same category as tubers. And it is misleading to call white rice a pure starch, why can't white flour be called pure starch because it ain't. – cliff Jun 22 2011 at 13:32
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As far as "why would you do any grain over tubers" I'd say "because they taste good and don't kill you." Not everyone is 100% strict, nor does everyone have to be. Hell, Robb Wolf isn't 100% strict to his own version of the diet. – TomInTexas Jun 22 2011 at 16:08
Rice is just more fun to eat than potatoes sometimes. And keeps longer. – Neane Jun 23 2011 at 5:52
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I eat white rice (about 1 serving of rice for every two or three servings of potatoes) because I like it and it's loaded with starch.

I don't understand the controversy. Coconut oil has absolutely no nutrients in it at all. Tons of people here advocate eating hundreds of calories of it by the spoonful and no one calls them out on it. Fat in general is extremely poor in nutrients compared to other things. But fat is essential for health and body functions just like starch (plant fat!).

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I think this is because fats in general are a poor source of nutrition unless you eat whole plant fats. I personally don't think eating 100s of calories from coconut oil is the best option over something like butter or animal fat which have more nutrients. – cliff Jun 23 2011 at 14:14
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Hey that is a great point about coconut oil, well done. In our rejection of SAD many of us have an unhealthy tendency to glom onto fats, etc in a contrarian reaction without fully realizing what we are doing. Fats, while healthy and satiating and essential, are indeed not needed in the amounts espoused by many paleo folk. Nothing wrong with a lot of fat but for certain people with specific goals fats are low priority beyond the amounts needed to function. – ben61820 Jun 23 2011 at 14:33
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Yea, I think white rice go in because it is gluten-free. And white is better than brown. But I don't know if I have read anyone saying white rice over potatoes. Usually the folks that say white rice is okay are also saying potatoes are okay.

Each to his own. Neither work for me, but that's fine.

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I can't eat enough sweet potato to replete my glycogen stores, so I have to supplement with rice. If I did no resistance training I would skip it for sure. I tend to eat it at times of low dietary mineral density, so I doubt that the phytic acid content makes much of a difference. Problems would occur if it comprised a large portion of your diet as a whole and were eaten all day long.

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How can you not eat enough sweet potato to refill glycogen stores? I can easily ingest 500 grams of carbs via tubers – cliff Jun 22 2011 at 18:36
that's a lot of carbs cliff. do you mean 500 calories? which would be about 125 grams of carbs? – Jack Kronk Jun 22 2011 at 19:32
i could eat a giant plate of pasta with bread for lunch, have 3 pieces of pizza and a couple beers for dinner, and still not even approach 500 carbs. – Jack Kronk Jun 22 2011 at 19:34
No i'm talking about grams of actual carbs 500g of carbs from potatos is around 2200g of potato flesh which is a little less than the amount I eat daily. A whole plate of pasta(however much that is?), some pizza and a couple beers isn't that much food... – cliff Jun 22 2011 at 19:47
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is you real name Chris Voigt? – Jack Kronk Jun 22 2011 at 20:11
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I eat a bowl of white rice often. But I don't eat it as a source of nutrition I eat it as a source of pure energy, much like I do when I eat extra butter/cream, or coconut oil. My strategy has been to meet my daily requirements (e.g. basal/resting metabolic rate) with a balanced paleo diet, meat and it's included fat, roots, and fruit. Any calories spent over my basic needs I feed with white rice. I experimented with regular potatoes and sweet potatoes at first as a post workout meals but I found the results to be satisfactory and white rice to be superior. So for me it seems my body is able to assimilate the white rice faster. So typically I'll eat 5 raw egg yolks and a cup of rice after a workout.

I think the only time things like rice become a problem is when you allow them to invade the nutritious part of your diet i.e. take away from the overall quality of the nutrients your eating to meet your basic needs.

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nice one. i like the point of sometimes eating something as purely a source of energy (read: glucose) as opposed to nutrition. Never thought about that way but that is indeed how i view some of my strategic over-feeding. Thanks – ben61820 Jun 23 2011 at 11:52
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We believe it's benign because it's pretty dang benign, compared to many other starch sources.

I have to eat upward of 2500-3000 cals per day just to maintain my weight and activity level (I'm still too thin). 100g or so of white rice most days is a drop in the bucket and the negligible amount of anti-nutrients aren't going to hurt me, nor is 370 kcals from rice going to replace more nutrient-dense foods. I'm way over my RDA on most nutrients already.

I have food sensitivities so if it doesn't hurt me, I will eat it. White rice treats me well, I enjoy it, and I'm no paleo purist, but it doesn't have a bad anti-nutrient profile at all. Being controlling and/or anxious about your food is less healthy IMO than eating some 'Neolithic' or un-nutritious foods.

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At 2500-3000 calories you don't need rice unless you literally are allergic to every other whole food paleo carb source. I eat 4000 calories a day and have no problem eating 500+ grams from potatoes. It is just as easy to eat rice as it is potatoes. Potatoes are a nutrient dense "safe starch", rice is a nutrient poor "safe starch". Why would you eat rice over potatoes? If not purely for culinary satisfaction. – cliff Jun 23 2011 at 0:43
I'd have to go with cliff on this one. I daily consume between 2700 and 2900, occasionally more than 3k. None of this is rice. Sweet potatoes, white potatoes, carrots, yogurt are all I need to easily get there. I'm not saying don't eat rice ever, but just that with 3k as a caloric goal you can not claim to need rice. No way. – ben61820 Jun 23 2011 at 2:31
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I don't see anywhere in my post that I imply I 'need it'. I'm saying I can see no sound reason not to eat it. I get plenty of nutrients, and I don't agree that potatoes are 'safe' where white rice isn't. And I also eat white sugar. I'm just not a purist - it's fine if you are, but it's a bit silly to me that you seem to think white rice is dangerous. – animalcule Jun 23 2011 at 2:48
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I never thought I'd be arguing with a potato DEFENDER. LOL, I'm glad the paleo community is shaken up. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Jun 23 2011 at 4:06
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Why do you think everything needs to be 'nutrient dense'? If the needs of your body are being well-met and you have no nutrient deficiencies, there is no drawback to consuming foods without many nutrients. – animalcule Jun 23 2011 at 14:12
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I actually never liked rice. But when I am craving an english muffin or toast I will buy those gluten free breads made from rice flower hides
Y'know, once in awhile, I'm not perfect :D

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There is also the convenience factor, especially when eating out. Unless you're avoiding carbs completely for ketosis or heavy-duty weight loss, knowing that you don't have to be "scared of" a little rice now and then means that many more potential meals and snacks don't have to be excluded.

So, potentially, eating rice may lower cotisol levels :)

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I'm not scared of carbs I'd just rather eat nutrient dense carbs like potatoes over nutrient poor carbs like rice. People don't realize rice and potatoes don't have the same nutrient density. – cliff Jun 23 2011 at 0:39
Cliff, what makes you think and say that people don't realize that rice and potatoes don't have the same nutrient density? What people? Paleo? SAD folks? In either case I'd think most people understand that plain old whte potatoes have more vitamins etc than white rice. – ben61820 Jun 23 2011 at 2:36
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cliff, if you are eating a nutritious diet and are not deficient in anything, it doesn't matter if you eat some things that are nutrient-poor. There is no need for everything we eat to be as packed full of nutrition as possible, if all our needs are being met. – animalcule Jun 23 2011 at 11:55
I think most people who have been doing paleo for a while would realize that but the random newbs and what not will see potatoes and rice listed as a safe starch and figure they are similar nutrition wise. In my experience a lot of people think potatoes are nutritionally devoid, probably because they happen to be white lol – cliff Jun 23 2011 at 11:58
I suppose back when Atkins was popluar the potato got demonized across the board and so people prolly associated it with not much nutrition. And the whole "don't eat white things" is indeed out there. But I think in the last ten or so years especially the goodly amount of vitamin C in white potatoes has gotten wide attention. And more generally are you perhaps over-valueing Jaminet's work? I certainly don't think his offering should be one of the initial info-sources for newbs. His stuff I've always considered on the periphery at best. – ben61820 Jun 23 2011 at 14:39
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I'm glad you brought this up. I, for one, cannot digest white rice. It sits like a rock in my stomach for days.

However, I can eat tubers just fine. :)

If white rice is so "safe", though, why can't I eat it? I'm genuinely curious, since I'm a bit miffed that I cannot eat sushi without knowing full well that I'll be sequestered in my house all the following day. What is it about tubers that delights my stomach, but rice (and to be fair, all grains and pseudocereals), which bloats and binds me up?

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No one is saying that white rice will be ok for everyone. That's not true of ANY paleo food - some people have allergies to beef of all things. Everyone is different - as has been said above, some people have problems with nightshades. As much as N=1 experimentation benefits us all, it can't be used to knock down a food completely. Paleo is a guideline, and everyone needs to see what works for them personally. I can eat rice with no problem at all, and pairing it with stews makes me happier - so I'll deal with the nutrient displacement by eating other foods too. – permiechickie Jun 22 2011 at 19:10
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To Fiona: no need of carbohydrates?

Ok, you can use ketosis, but if you use it is stressing or (after some time) even harmful to your body in a strong way - your kidneys and liver will be overused if you use proteins/lipids as the main source of energy for your brain.

It is not that body is not capable of using other source but it have its cost. It is a waste of energy to develop glucose from non-carbohydrate source. Also there are lot of toxins during process and also you will become more acidic which is no good... I do not say you have to eat tuns of carbohydrates but to state that we don´t need them at all is risky...

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