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Natures Candy Cane

alt text Edit:Check out this writeup from Hyperlipid, thoughts? He has a series of these that make alot of sense...

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/Fruit%20and%20vegetables%20%281%29%20re%20post Looking for clear explanation as to why Fructose in fruit, despite all the studies showing that its horrible for us, is still ok, in its whole natural form?

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Fruit isn't just sugar. It's also fiber, antioxidants, and other phytochemicals. – Melissa May 20 at 2:21
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As the above comment said - there is a HUGE difference between a tablespoon of processed sugar and a tablespoon of an apple. You can't take the nutrients out of their contexts. Fruit is not sugar; fruit contains sugar, but it is not just sugar – Aaron Griffin May 20 at 14:59
How do we know those others are in our best interests(just playing devils advocate, don't bit my head off) – Stephen-Aegis Aug 16 at 20:21

14 Answers

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Hunter-gatherers didn't just eat meat. It is likely that fruit made up a very large portion of calories. It's easy for people living in cities as many of us do to forget that food exists outside in the wild, whether in animal or plant form.

Most vegetables do not have much in the way of calories. The botanical definition of fruit also includes nuts. Fruit and nuts both have a fair amount of calories.

That was the concern. Getting more calories with more nutrition. They didn't have a culture of processed food, nor did they have a diet book culture. Humans in the wild devote their lives to food. Food is primal, and few things are more primal than fruit.

I read about wolves ravaging watermelon farms. Yep, they were eating the watermelons. Some people think humans are carnivores, but not even carnivores like the wolf can resist sweet fructose temptation.

Recently there has been reports of a study done where tumors were fed glucose and then fructose and from this they concluded that tumors "thrive" on fructose. Well, the vast majority of fruits are far from having 100% fructose like in those studies. Did they also feed these cancer cells protein or fat? They had a hypothesis (fructose makes tumors fat) and sought to replicate that. And maybe they didn't care whether it made sense or was logical or not. It fed into the current talk of fructose.

The fructose scare is doing nothing to make America healthy. All it will make people do is avoid HFCS, which is laughably small way to make a change unless one consumes sugary drinks regularly. Diet drinks have made a huge success in the market already. I think you have to consider the food that's being eaten, in what quantities, and the person's activity level. And because they think fructose is bad they are going to avoid healthy fruit.

Remember the low-fat craze, then there was a low-carb craze. And between all this we got lots of mini crazes based on avoiding this or that ingredient. HFCS (and all fructose by association) becomes a scapegoat for America's gluttony and sloth.

I would like everyone to consider the Kitava who consume lots of carbs including fruit and consider whether they are unhealthy, they're not. And obesity is rare. Most other hunter-gatherers also consume fruit. Only when humans ventured into cold climates (or perhaps also very hot desert climates) did we have to adopt very low carb diets simply because there wasn't much fruit to be found. Would it be close to the diet of much of our evolution? No. Would it get us through the harsh winter? Yes. Humans find ways to survive.

I just don't see how early apes would go from eating lots of fruit as they most likely did (our evolutionary heritage is arboreal, just look at all the other primates) to getting to a point where consuming it would be bad for our health. It seems contrary to evolution for such a nutritious and energy dense food source to become bad for the human species.

Recently I read a post on a low-carb blog extolling gluconeogenesis as proof that humans actually don't need any carbs. Our livers produce glucose anyway. Why would our bodies produce something we don't need in the first place for use in our body's systems? If sugar is so scary, why is glucose, abundant in our blood, a form of sugar?

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Consumed Starches = glucose without fructose – Stephen-Aegis Aug 17 at 11:08
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There have been studies showing that consuming large amounts of fructose or sugar are bad for you. I don't recall seeing any studies showing that eating a peice of fruit has any harmful effects at all. Most studies show a neutral or positive correlation between fruit consumption and improved health outcomes.

If you eat too much protein you will poison yourself. Does this mean you should remove all protein from your diet? Most things are not poisonous at any quantity. The dose makes the poison. Even water can kill you if you drink enough of it.

There is no evidence of harm from the amounts of fructose in whole fruit but there are many benefits from other components of the fruit including vitamins, soluable fiber and phytochemicals. This probably does not apply to fruit juices that mostly just sugar so avoid drinking your fruit. If you have metabolic problems and cannot handle any fruit in your diet or need to restrict fruit to lose weight those are individual issuse, not the fault of the fruit. Of course not all fruits are equal but this applies to all foods. Fruit is not magic, simply the fructose content is to low to be problem, but it tastes good and at moderate consumption it has benefits.

A couple of sciency bits I found online:

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/139/3/827 You have a transporter protein in your gut thats only job is enable you to absorb fructose. Why would you have this if you were not meant to eat any fructose?

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/7/1/42 Fruit intake is independantly asscociated with lower levels of inflammation, which most people would consider a good thing.

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Good answer. I challenge anyone to show me a case where daily fruit consumption has lead to "toxicity" (whatever that means) or any ill effects whatsoever. – Earl Cannonbear May 20 at 13:48
Earl, can you make this a question? It would be interesting (to me at least) to sea the responses. If you search on high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com (on the right hand side, in the index) you will find some thoughts on fruits – pieter d May 25 at 16:01
Yay for sciency bits! – gilliebean Jun 24 at 23:41
Earl, high mango and other fructose rich fruit consumption in Thailand is linked by some to higher diabetes rates. – Chris Jul 28 at 12:04
my kids get diarrhea when they eat too much fruit... not sure if that counts as "toxicity", but I'm thinking it's not a good thing! – Sandra Aug 17 at 20:19
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Acceptable doesn't mean good. There's a lot to be said for certain components of fruit and the possibility they carry of compensating for other deleterious lifestyle choices (anti-oxidants, anyone?). For those of us avoiding the negative sides of contemporary living (though it's all-but impossible to live perfectly cleanly these days) there may be some small benefit from eating fruit.

Personally, I don't eat any fruit because it raises my blood sugar, and I try to minimise all inflammation in my body, especially while I try to burn excess fat.

Fruit is, at least, meant to be eaten and therefore not full of the 'don't kill me' chemicals of veggies, but given our digestive system and the impact sugars have had on most of us throughout our lives, fructose may well still be a poison in its unrefined state.

Like all things, I think it's best to find out how your body responds before you rely on theories and grok-logic to make your nutrition decisions for you.

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You're right....acceptable doesn't mean good!!! – Alcinda Moore May 20 at 2:34
Fruit reduces inflammation. – Matthew May 20 at 13:27
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Matthew, In what ways and pathways does fruit reduce inflammation? – LiveForIt May 20 at 16:33
Bit hard to answer in a comment. Some effects are likely through polyphenols. These include flavanoids such as quercetin and proanthocyanidins. Tannins like gallic acid. There are many others. Also fruit fibre like pectin. – Matthew May 21 at 16:05
You have to cause inflammation before you need to fuss about reducing it. – Girl Gone Primal May 24 at 4:15
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Just because something is toxic doesn't mean our metabolic system can't deal with it. Humans have been ingesting fructose, in relatively small quantities, since before they were humans; this is basically proven by comparative anatomy (grinding teeth are for veggies, etc). Sugar and fructose critic Robert Lustig has quipped that the sweet taste of fructose is like a lure that gets us to eat fiber and other useful micronutrients. Very much something that Michael Pollan might say (e.g. botany of desire).

Fructose toxicity is more of a long term, chronic concern than a short term concern; unlike alcohol, a single overdose of fructose will not kill you immediately. Long term chronic overexposure can kill you, but periodic exposure to limited quantities, so long as the total carbohydrate load of the diet is low, will not really hurt you. Our ancestors had periodic, seasonal fluctuations in the amount of fructose they ingested. If your fructose ingestion follows the same pattern, you should be fine.

Nevertheless, modern science would suggest that carbohydrate sources that are higher in starch or glucose are less toxic and should be preferred if you for some reason need to load carbohydrates. In that sense, at least, a white potato might be better than a sweet potato!

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Thank you for this. I've seen a lot of vilifying of fruit recently on this site. I don't understand it. The paleo diet is supposed to be about eating "real food", yet people will come around and say that fruit is bad while snacking on their almond-flour muffins and coconut milk milkshake. – Aaron Griffin May 20 at 15:02
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The concern relates back to the metabolic millieu - fruit wasn't available in such permanent abundance, so the resultant blood sugar spike from fruit consumption would have been infrequent and seasonal, not the everyday norm. Sure, some people take it too far and will say that fruit is bad for everyone - others, like myself, know that the SAD has left us metabolically damaged and insulin resistant, which means that fructose may well be a poison, even when limited to periodic exposure. Experimenting on myself, I know that even berries trigger all sorts of unwanted effects. Individuation is key. – Girl Gone Primal May 24 at 4:19
Just for the record. I'm against the eating of fruit, but I don't eat almond flour muffins or coconut milk shakes either. I eat meat, and that's it. GGP is, once again, spot on. The stuff we call fruit just isn't a natural food, and I for one can't eat it without repercussions. – Ambimorph Aug 16 at 23:31
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There's a simple way to check if fruits are good for you or not. Buy a blood glucose monitor at your local drug store with some test strips. Take your fasting blood sugar in the morning. Then, have a meal with some fruit. Test your blood sugar one and two hours after. If it's above 120 two hours after the meal, fruit is causing dangerous elevations in blood glucose and you'll need to moderate it. If it's below 120 the amount of fruit you're eating is probably fine.

Obviously how you feel eating it should also determine the choices you make.

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according to Cordain's original Paleo Diet book, fruit has a different effect on blood sugar than refined sugars do. takes longer to process or something, doesn't cause a spike, but rather, a more gradual release into the blood sugar.

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A high blood glucose level is damaging, no matter how long it took to reach those levels. – Girl Gone Primal May 20 at 2:30
But again, this is VERY individual. For those of us with high sensitivity, fruit can cause spikes just as much as refined carbs. – Alcinda Moore May 20 at 2:33
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Glycemic index, i.e. speed at which sugar hits the blood, is kinda irrelevant IMHO, if your overall dietary intake of carbs is low. The classic glycemic index was devised to compare rates of blood sugar spikes for different delivery systems of 50g of carbs. 50g... a lot of primal eaters get only 1-3x that amount PER DAY. And I think it is misleading to say that high blood glucose is damaging; hyperglycemia can result from insulin resistance (type II diabetes) or from lack of insulin production (type I). That's deadly, but normally, glucose in the blood is absolutely necessary for life. – Matt Baldwin May 20 at 2:44
What I meant to say was... it's misleading to call high blood glucose damaging because it might be misinterpreted to mean that glucose in the blood is damaging. There's nothing wrong with having glucose in the blood; it's the inability of the body to remove glucose from the blood which is damaging. A normally functioning endocrine system can handle small amounts of ingested carbs (25-50g) with ease. – Matt Baldwin May 20 at 2:46
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I don't think anyone would take my comment to mean that a normal blood glucose level is going to be bad - I'm talking about an unnaturally high blood glucose level, caused by carbs. For some people, some fruit can do this, and for almost everyone, starchy, refined carbs have this effect. Some lucky folk can down a pound of pasta and their insulin sensitivity keeps their blood glucose in the normal range. – Girl Gone Primal May 21 at 3:35
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Don't forget that the fruit (and vegetables) of today barely resemble their wild cousins that our paleo ancestors evolved eating. They have, for the most part, been bred to be larger, sweeter and juicier than nature intended.

On top of that, they are all available in greater quantities and for longer periods of time than we would typically expect to find in nature.

Combine those two points and you've got nature's candy bar on a tree (shrub or bush) staring you in the face.

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I think it's Lights Out (by Wiley) that suggests seasonal fruit intake prepared humans for the rigors of winter by adding on the needed fat. Probably one reason to eat much less. – Laura May 20 at 4:08
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It's mistake to suggest all wild fruits are bitter and sour. There's plenty of evidence that some wild fruits are just as sweet as cultivated fruits, and sometimes even sweeter. How else would they convince animals to eat them? Of course, wild fruits are generally smaller and less readily available than modern produce, so the effect - lower sugar consumption - was probably about the same. Don Matesz had a good post on this: donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/03/… – Erik Cisler May 20 at 6:05
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Wild strawberries= sweet as candy. HOWEVER they are teeny tiny and it's hard to get a lot. – Melissa May 20 at 15:23
Yeah, people seem to forget that they are straw**berries** and should be the size of other berries... – Aaron Griffin May 20 at 16:16
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Good in small doses, bad in large doses.

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Seasonality does, however, play a role here. It causes weight gain, yes, but in the fall, when fruit was falling from tress and thus plentiful, the weight gain would be an advantage for the winter. – Aaron Griffin May 20 at 14:57
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Humans evolved in the east african highlands where the seasons don't play the same role they do in the northern hemisphere. – Jay May 20 at 21:08
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I used to avoid fruit, then I added it back in to see what would happen, never more than one serving a day mind you and nearly always accompanied by a fat, such as a chopped kiwi with natural yoghurt on top. I lost weight faster, go figure, I think it satisfied a need in me and actually helped keep me on track. Mind you I never go above the one serving a day otherwise I mess too much with my blood sugar.

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This has been my experience, too. Fresh cherries with coconut milk! – Jodi May 22 at 13:54
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Something that is not discussed very often is that a kind of food can be good and bad at the same time. It can be good for your (Darwinian) fitness: more reproduction of genes. But it can be bad for long term health.

I think fruit could be considered to be like this. Fruit could cause beneficial nutrients (energy, phytochemicals, ...) that put our organism in a 'go-and-reproduce-now-is-the-time' modus.

This could (partially) explain why most of us like fruits: ancestors who liked fruits reproduced more offspring, even at a cost. Darwinian medicine talks about these trade-offs quite a lot.

(edit: just adding something to the discussion here, not saying all of the before mentioned answers are wrong, quite the contrary. My two cents on fructose: the poison is in the dose)

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Personally I eat very little fruit. Mostly berries, although on rare occasions a bite or two of another fruit. I've never been a huge fan of fruits, so it's fairly easy for me to go without.

Fruits are, for the most part, all sugar....for macro-nutrients. But there are all kinds of vitamins and minerals in fruits, so most people find them at least acceptable. Most fruits also actually contain fairly small amounts of fructose as far as their total sugar content.

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I love berries, but I tend to lose self control and eat a bunch. I am considering keeping them out of the house and eating them once a week, on grocery day. It would be like our ancestors randomly, stumbling across a huge batch and gorging, then not finding any for the rest of the week. I currently do that with extreme dark chocolate and its very satisfying.

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found this answer, makes sense

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This is a summary answer based on the following post:

http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/06/fructose-in-fruits-is-good-for-you.html

Fruits are among the very few natural plant foods that have been evolved to be eaten by animals, to facilitate the dispersion of the plants’ seeds. Thus, from an evolutionary standpoint, the idea that fruits can be unhealthy is somewhat counterintuitive. Given that fruits are made to be eaten, and that dead animals do not eat, it is reasonable to expect that fruits must be good for something in animals, at least in one important health-related process. If yes, what is it?

Well, it turns out that fructose is a better fuel for glycogen replenishment than glucose, in the liver and possibly in muscle, at least according to a study by Parniak and Kalant reviewed in the post above. The study also suggests that glycogen synthesis based on fructose takes precedence over triglyceride formation. Glycogen synthesis occurs when glycogen reserves are depleted. The liver of an adult human stores about 100 g of glycogen, and muscles store about 500 g. An intense 30-minute weight training session may use up about 63 g of glycogen, not much but enough to cause some of the responses associated with glycogen depletion, such as an acute increase in adrenaline and growth hormone secretion.

If one’s liver glycogen tank is close to empty, eating a couple of apples will have little to no effect on body fat formation. This will be so even though two apples have close to 30 g of carbohydrates, more than 20 g of which being from sugars. The liver will grab everything for itself, to replenish its 100 g glycogen tank.

In the Parniak and Kalant study, when glucose and fructose were administered simultaneously, glycogen synthesis based on glucose was increased by more than 200 percent. Glycogen synthesis based on fructose was increased by about 50 percent. In fruits, fructose and glucose come together.

What leads to glycogen depletion in humans? Exercise does, both aerobic and anaerobic. So does intermittent fasting.

What happens when we consume excessive fructose from sodas, juices, and table sugar? The extra fructose, not used for glycogen replenishment, is converted into fat by the liver. That fat is packaged in the form of triglycerides, which are then quickly secreted by the liver as small VLDL particles. The VLDL particles deliver their content to muscle and body fat tissue, contributing to body fat accumulation. After delivering their cargo, small VLDL particles eventually become small-dense LDL particles; the ones that can potentially cause atherosclerosis.

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That's the same link I just posted – Stephen-Aegis Jun 25 at 0:31

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