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What place does political discussion have on PaleoHacks? Does eating Paleo pre-dispose one to lean any one way on PaleoHacks?

Melissa: I am bumping this again because I've seen several political questions today.

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11 Answers

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The answer is NO.

Political discussion does not have a place on PaleoHacks. I don't care if you are of the Left, Right, Independent, Green or Libertarian persuasion (or any others) -- PaleoHacks is an equal opportunity political discriminator, a pox on all %!^$##!! your houses!!!

Inane posts about so-and-so for Prez will be deleted immediately. And I might suspend or delete you as well.

Go find some forum or blog to talk Paleo + politics.

I repeat, PaleoHacks is not a place for political discussion or questions of any sort.

End of story.

The basic anatomy of every online political discussion

Person: Hey [insert_guru_of_preferred_political_affiliation] said this and this. [insert_random_fact_here] makes me think that we should do X, Y and Z. And that [insert_other_political_affiliation] is totally wrong.

OtherPerson: Well, you're an [insert_preferred_insult] because [insert_guru_of_preferred_political_affiliation] said that and that based on [insert_random_fact_here].

Person: Oh yeah? Well, you and [insert_guru_of_preferred_political_affiliation] are just like Hitler. Did you ever stop to think of you are becoming the tool of [insert_special_interest_group_here]?

OtherPerson: Well, you're an [insert_preferred_insult] because [insert_guru_of_preferred_political_affiliation] said that and that.

Ad infinitum.

PS for those looking to talk Paleo + politics online, go see my buddy Richard's blog/comments. You can either agree with or tangle with him all you want there. Or go hang out over with this dude.

Or start your own forum.

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8 
 Thanks, Patrik! I come here for nutrition and lifestyle advice, not to hear political arguments. I hear enough of that everywhere else. – Lizzish Jul 22 2011 at 23:05
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 I think it's entirely relevant - after all the kind of food we eat and obtain is intimately connected to the society we live in. It might even define the society we live in since it's so, uh, 'primal'. Grok, for example, lived in a society where group decisions were made for the whole tribe... That said, I don't think this kind of discussion can be done rationally without people taking sides or getting their backs up (I'm sure that happened to Grok too!). So I'm fine with it being totally banned. – CaveRat Jul 22 2011 at 23:28
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 then caverat, you should start a discussion forum or blog about it. Paleohacks is for hacking the paleo diet, not for these kind of discussions. There is also the paleo subreddit. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Jul 22 2011 at 23:40
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 Uh, I'm agreeing. I said I think politics is relevant in general, but not necessary here. At least that's what I think I said... – CaveRat Jul 22 2011 at 23:54
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 Ya, ya, ya...the personal is political, agreed. However, this is my favorite form of escapism from political news right now, and I'm not going to be a very happy camper if that starts creeping into here. I don't want to know who my fellow paleohackers want to be president, or senator, or mayor, I fear it could only sully my respect for them as otherwise intelligent people. – Happy Now Jul 23 2011 at 5:57
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As much as I love to talk politics, I agree that this isn't the place. Knowing about your political leanings might interfere with my ability to take sound nutritional advice from you, which could potentially interfere with the results of my N=1 experiments. I need to be able to continue to respect the opinions and advice of the membership without my character judgments getting in the way.

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I got voted down for my desire to preserve neutrality? – lunabelle Jul 23 2011 at 1:41
Upvote from me; I respect your opinion and viewpoint; you make valid points. – Liz V. Jul 23 2011 at 1:43
I'm up voting too. My interest is (ok, was I guess since my post was deleted) more about how interest in Paleo informs other interests, not what camp one lives in. – CaveRat Jul 23 2011 at 2:16
Upvoted for common sense. – Happy Now Jul 23 2011 at 5:59
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 upvoted for honesty. i know i would do the same thing. – being Jul 23 2011 at 16:37
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I did not see one comment on those "offensive" posts that was remotely suggested bickering. Ok, Thomas' post was not appropriate (Sorry, TMS!). HOwever, the Marx Engels post was entirely paleo. The OP even posted some kick ass links that discussed Engels views of evolutionary biology. That post was illuminating for its content about corporatism impacting our food system.

Frankly, I'm disgusted that the remote inference of politics is automatically deemed partisan or inflammatory. Sure, we can talk about hacking vaginas or asking about adrenal failure for the umpteenth time but not the whys and hows of our food system destruction. That post was probably one of the most constructive discussions I've seen on here. If someone doesn't like the post they can simply choose not to read it.

Patrik, I appreciate what you and the moderators do here. Yes, you built this site but anyone who builds a community needs to realize that it comes to the point where it is the people's community. The information people contribute here make it so YOU have a site. Without the people you have no community. I was reading a Slate article about Ravelry, an online community about knitting. It has come to the point in that community where people have sub-areas for off-topic discussions. They come for the knitting and stay for the people. Their hosts (the owners don't claim to "own" but "host" the community) understand that their community can only go so far with one topic and have adjusted the site as such. Please entertain that idea otherwise, people will begin to drop off.

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2 
 Well put baconbitch. – Futureboy Jul 23 2011 at 18:22
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 Let me qualify the first sentence in paragraph 2. That wasn't directed towards Patrik rather, a general statement that politics can't be discussed in the U.S. for fear of inflammatory remarks. That makes me feel as though our people don't have the intellect for open discussion. </rant> – baconbitch Jul 23 2011 at 19:01
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 @baconbitch -- 1) politics IS partisan & inflammatory, that is a fact of life. Plenty of other places it can be discussed in the context of Paleo. 2) The community creates a site for the community -- and I am the community's benevolent dictator (for better or as you might think, for worse) 3) If people drop off, then people drop off. I am not doing this for the money - so I have freedom to manage PH as I see fit. – Patrik♦ Jul 23 2011 at 19:03
2 
 3) That's all good, man. If you're cool with people dropping off then hey - totally get it. I was just offering you another view. I'm sure you're frustrated by this as it comes through loud and clear in your writing. However, discourse is a good thing. I wasn't attacking you. Just stating my opinions :) – baconbitch Jul 23 2011 at 19:30
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 Seriously? Patrik, I read nothing, nothing at all here that should have been taken with any amount of offense. Maybe I am misreading your response, but I can't but feel like you are going for a verbal "slap in the face." Taking the subject matter out of it, you are coming across like a Daddy who likes his kids to be seen and not heard. Only a few reactions can come from this - out and out rebellion, or a total retreat. I am not the rebellious type. You have attracted a lovely group of people here. I wish I could pack 'em all up and take them with me. – none Jul 24 2011 at 20:19
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If you let politics come on, just know that religion etc will quickly follow.

This then will unfortunately give voice to all the crazy bible people, much like many WAP boards. Why do really good health movements always bring in crazy bible people?

My vote is no politics, no religion.

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 It's a slippery slope! If you give people an inch they'll take a mile and one thing I love about PH is the lack of Jesus Christ here! <3 – HeatherC Jul 23 2011 at 3:36
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 For some, politics IS religion. – Ed♦ Jul 23 2011 at 4:26
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 ben, liz, lizzish, and heather - i think ALL of you comments here are inappropriate. and calling anyone's religion 'bullshit' is unnecessarily insulting. your comments here are of no higher class than the same interactions with those very people that made you upset enough to say these things here. 'crazy bible people'? just because a few idiots do and say idiotic things in the name of the bible or jesus christ? Really? Seriously? that's like saying "I've known enough lawyers to know that they are all crazy idiots. All of them". Cmon. – Jack Kronk Jul 23 2011 at 8:05
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 You see? Look at my comment. It's like I took a side isn't it? Pretty controversial topic, religion. I think your comments above are hypocritically inappropriate, and BAM! Look what it incited in me. This, right here, is why politics and religion don't belong on PaleoHacks. It starts wars from within a group of people who, without those topics, are all on the same team with regard to health and wellness. – Jack Kronk Jul 23 2011 at 8:10
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 @Jack - if/when you start referring to "crazy Hindus", it's ok because everyone will know you are referring to me and since 1) it's true, and 2) we are Paleo brothers, I know you mean it as a term of endearment! The only real crazies I've been seeing lately are diet and nutrition zealots. Go figure! – Aravind Jul 23 2011 at 18:59
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Hi Patrick, I am a newcomer here and I mostly lurk while writing lectures, but I'm going to step out on a limb...

Can we at least open up what you mean by "political discussion"? I absolutely agree that "so and so for president" posts have no place here. In other words, PARTISAN politics have no place here. The paleo community/ies consist of a wide range of political affiliations, and discussions can become irrelevant to the paleo WOL.

However, from what I've seen, there are many highly intelligent, critical thinking, informed people in the PaleoHacks community that I believe can have a constructive, non-partisan discussion about certain political subjects; for example, there was a discussion about food politics/ policy today that was informative and intelligent. There are some political topics that are important to us all -- I don't care if you're a communist-libertarian-republican-rastafarian, the effect of the 2012 Farm Bill on the farmer that raises your grass-fed organic calf's liver and bones for your bone broth is worth discussing. USDA policies, CAFO's, someone mentioned the attack on raw milk, etc... I don't see these things as necessarily politically antagonistic.

In other words, I think food politics might be an allowable subject here; I reiterate, however, I think it can be conducted in a BI-PARTISAN matter. What I see in your PaleoHacks community is a potential positive force for change. I guess it depends on what your vision is for this community -- hack my bone broth is a worthy subject, but why not let the full potential of the community come to fruition?

With respect.

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4 
 Nope, sorry, we cannot open up any sort of political discussion -- all politics is partisan. End of story. Please, go elsewhere for paleo + political discussion. Stay here for interesting Q&A about how to hack the Paleo Diet. – Patrik♦ Jul 22 2011 at 23:30
12 
 i agree with Liz. Food politics is totally relevant to Paleo. Sorry, information is information, and it's always contrary - you may as well ban the Vegan that comes on to this site and disagrees. Food is politics these days because food is more tied into economics than it has ever been before. End of Story. Maybe its because Im from Eastern Europe and used to understanding the full ramifications of politics in aspects of DAILY LIFE such as dinner, which i will openly say americans dont begin to understand (see Standard American Diet) but food is politics. – tartare Jul 22 2011 at 23:53
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 "All politics is partisan" (sic)...okay, it's your show, but I disagree. Like I said, you have a bunch of smart people here that can do better than that, but, hey,if that's your limited vision, that's your business. I'll respect that, as like I said, I think you've drawn a great community here. – Liz V. Jul 23 2011 at 1:49
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 Even though everything is potentially related to paleo, because paleo is so broad, not everything can be fruitfully hacked. I have strong opinions on economic matters that put me squarely in the socialist camp. Many years ago, I spent half of business school trying to convince classmates that they weren't able to see the light with regards to capitalism vs socialism. It's a never-ending idealogical battle, not a hack! That is why hacks about politics, vague metaphysics, religion, etc etc would probably dilute the actual paleo material here, and possibly lead to angry attacks on fellow hackers. – Kamal♦ Jul 23 2011 at 14:41
5 
 But the main point is this: I doubt Patrik is trying to be evil and muzzle paleohackers on important issues. Everyone knows that politics is very important and effects food; that is not in question. The issue is whether Patrik thinks that political threads are appropriate for the forum. Ask 100 paleohackers how exactly they would run a forum, get 100 different answers. This is Patrik's answer, and I don't think that disallowing political threads is ruinous to paleohacks, nor do I think that making such rules is ludicrous. Even if you think it's ludicrous, please consider still staying :) – Kamal♦ Jul 23 2011 at 15:01
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While everything is connected, discussing everything related to food can make for a really unfocused conversation. I like how patrik insists we avoid losing energy to political argumentation.

I come here for answers and questions about paleo-style eating.

I also like a bit of humor and great pictures.

The world is drowning in bickering over politics, I'm glad that it is limited here.

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Paleo Hacks is about changes you can make individually and amongst those in your sphere of influence. It's not about theoretical societal changes or politics. Occasional mocking of the FDA and USDA may be permitted.

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1 
 I think this is more because the q/a format sucks for politic discussion. Not only does it marginalize less popular perspectives but it also inhibits discussion. – No more. Jul 23 2011 at 1:08
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 But over all I am not happy that Thomas Seay got banned. – No more. Jul 23 2011 at 4:44
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 Good to know... actually, no... suspended, banned, what the fucking ever...It's clear to me that the intellectual capacity of the group has surpassed the "creator" who lacks basic critical thinking skills ffs – Liz V. Jul 23 2011 at 5:14
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 @Liz V. --- Strike 1 = swearing. Strike 2 = insulting language. I am gonna throw a fastball down the middle and you're out. – Patrik♦ Jul 23 2011 at 7:17
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 Thomas Seay got banned? I haven't found anything he's said helpful in some time; and often he answers with tangential goofiness rather than anything helpful to the OP - but I didn't know he got canned:( – ben61820 Jul 23 2011 at 14:44
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I'm seeing more and more politics posts on here. I have to close them because they are outside the scope of this site. Please post them on more appropriate forums like

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0

Jeez, remind me not to ask Commissar Patrik to lead the revolution.

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2 
 Max Renn -- you would prob best served participating elsewhere. – Patrik♦ Jul 22 2011 at 23:21
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 @ Max Renn, "Commissar" Patrik IS leading the information revolution--thousands of blogs and on-line communities are leaving conventional media sources in the ash heap of history. Should I read Pravda for my daily paleo fix? – Ed♦ Jul 23 2011 at 4:24
1 
 Uh, Ed, your political bipartisanship is showing...Patrick is in no way, now how leading the "information revolution"... that was the point of my original post. Hacking bone broth and supplements is useful, but ultimately leads to stagnation. What is your solution, vision - bone up, as it is. – Liz V. Jul 23 2011 at 5:06
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 @Liz V. -- I think you need to start your own Paleo blog/forum/whatever. – Patrik♦ Jul 23 2011 at 7:16
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 I don't understand the bullying that seems to be going on here. – The Japsican Jul 23 2011 at 16:10
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Patrik- if you want to have more clear boundaries for paleohacks, maybe create a tab at the top that has something like "read before starting" or "getting started" or something. Something that has suggestions for newbies on formulating good questions, PH etiquite, topics to stay away from, etc. I've been a part of other online communities and most of them have rules. Some of them even had an application process! As far as I can tell, there aren't obvious (posted, written) rules here. I figured out what was and wasn't appropriate by reading and watching for a while.

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You might want to check out the FAQ. Which I will update later tonight. – Patrik♦ Jul 24 2011 at 2:52
Maybe move the FAQ to its own bar next to "questions, tags, users, badges, unanswered" I may have read it a few months ago, but forgot it was there, and didn't see it when I looked for it earlier. Maybe put it in a more prominent location? – WayfinderAli Jul 24 2011 at 3:02
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I think some posts that point accusatory towards government regulation directly related to Paleo are founded... but if you are a paleo, this would not be a partisan issue

Such as this one - link text

I agree with Patrik on the partisan stuff... left, right, wrong, whatever... your politics would go better on a political site. Some topics on political manners can be asinine and related to Paleo in a way we can discuss, but aside from that... GTFO.

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