Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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So I started this whole Paleo style eating about 2 months ago at 6ft 231 pounds I'm now around 193-194 lbs. Whats odd is once I got below 196 I started having sleep issues.

By sleep issues I mean I would go to bed fine at about 9-10pm but was waking up at 3-4AM EVERY! Night. Tried everything from P.Serine, 5 HTP, Melatonin, GABA, V. Root etc. Nothing seemed to work really. I tried a sweet potato after hard workout, eating massive Paleo meal before bed, and not eating 5 hours prior to bed. Nothing worked.

A few weeks ago I had about a half a cup of white chocolate chips in the eveneing and slept like a baby (9 hours solid). Tried it the next night with the same results. So every day for the last 4 weeks my sleeps has been amazing and Ive been ingesting 1/2 to 1 cup of white chocolate chips (made of sugar and Palm oil).

Was I in starvation mode? This definitely isnt Paleo, whats actually happening here? I work out about 3 times a week usually weights or sprinting. I play my sport for a living but I have become very aware of overtraining.

edited Jan 20 2012 at 17:03

Cory151
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asked Aug 4 2011 at 15:09

Cory151
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interesting i have tried the same remedies for sleep! ive never been able to sleep sound or well my whole life – Mallory Aug 4 2011 at 15:30

Interesting! I just had my best sleep in weeks last night and I binged on some chocolate chips in the evening (first time in 6 months for real sugar, I usually stick with fruit only). We have way different issues, but you might be onto something. I hope someone can explain it. – Senneth Aug 4 2011 at 17:49

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Cory151 - Any update on this? i find myself in a similar situation.. – Evan Dec 1 2011 at 21:55

Hi Cory, thanks for posting all this info. What food before bed is working for you these days; still the white chocolate or yam/sweet potato or both?...And how's the Magnesium L-Threonate going now, is it still working for you....Any other updates/info – daz Apr 17 2012 at 0:22

Daz my sleep is better Im still eating sweet potatoes and taking MgT (just found out it staves off baldness Jackpot!!!!) ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21034532 – Cory151 Apr 19 2012 at 3:18

max b · Accepted Answer · 2011-12-28 18:06:51Z UTC

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If I have a protein/fat meal for dinner I sleep terribly. So I started eating carbs only for dinner and am sleeping very well now.

answered Dec 28 2011 at 18:06

max b
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	Right on this has been my saving grace, my solution thus far has been not to just have a yam or sweet potatoe twice a week after a hard workout, but eat them every night with my last meal of the day. If I skip a few days of this practice I awake at 3-4am and cannot go back to sleep. – Cory151 Dec 29 2011 at 17:42
	carbs lower cortisol... you be spiking cortisol in the middle of the night from stress (physical, mental, physiologic/hypoglycemia)... have u tried yoga moves and breathing 20min prior to bed or in the pm? – grace Jan 1 2012 at 3:55
	for diabetics, if they have a log BG, glucose in the middle they may experience nightmares, waking or sweats... usually finding out why they go low (under eating, excessive low carb, no enough protein timed with carbs, too much diabetic drugs, more exercise, stress) is not a mystery. – grace Jan 1 2012 at 3:58

Vrimj · Answer 2 · 2011-08-04 15:18:17Z UTC

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There is historical evidence that waking up at night is the normal thing. It might be that your sleep patterns were healthy and normal, but you managed to time a sugar crash right when you would have started to wake up.

answered Aug 4 2011 at 15:18

Vrimj
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Since when? When on a SAD diet I got 7-8 hours per night and was sleeping fine on Paleo up until this point. After this point I was noticeably more tired from having slept only 4-5 hour. It should also be noted that according to Chris Kresser, reducation in sleep to just five hours per night was associated with a 15% reduction in testosterone. No what im looking for at my age, regardless of what my ancestors did. When I say I was waking up, I mean i could not go back to sleep almost like an adrenaline squirt woke me. – Cory151 Aug 4 2011 at 16:46

At least for me my typical patten to to have a wakeful period around the time you mention and then I go back to sleep after a half hour to an hour. The historical evidence from before electric lights is better covered by the book, but basically boils down to the fact that in old resources there are different terms for each part of the cycle mentioned as if they are perfectly normal. At least for me this sleeping pattern, once I stopped worrying about waking up, actually works well and leaves me well rested and more emotionally stable. – Vrimj Aug 4 2011 at 17:48

Extremely interesting! I'll have to experiment with this. Perhaps it explains how we can go to bed when the sun goes down and wake up when the sun comes up even though that's often way more than 8 hours or whatever would be enough sleep: Maybe it's normal to wake up for a bit. Does that make sense or did I misinterpret? I've always found it odd that going to bed shortly after the sun goes down and waking up when the sun comes back up could be as many as like 12+ hours in the winter, which seems like way to many. Waking up for a bit in the night would make this make more sense. Maybe? – Anonymous Coward Aug 4 2011 at 20:23

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Right, it's not that people were sleeping less in total, it's just that sleeping for 7 or 8 hours straight is probably not natural at all. – Ambimorph Aug 4 2011 at 20:23

Joey · Answer 3 · 2011-08-04 20:27:36Z UTC

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Chocolate is a source of magnesium,so that might be a reason? Maybe you could try experimenting with another magnesiumsource? If that doesn't help it's probably the sugar/carbs in the chocolate which can lead to better sleep if you're having adrenal issues.

answered Aug 4 2011 at 20:27

Joey
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I didn't think white chocolate had any actual chocolate in it, just sugar. Maybe high-quality stuff with actual cocoa solids in it, but it can't amount to very much. – Rose Aug 4 2011 at 22:16

At one point I took Zinc/Magnesium supplement, and I slept incredibly well, the only problem being is that I had an incredibly hard time waking up, even after 9hrs of sleep. I've noticed this from anytime I take a magnesium supplement prior to bedtime - difficulty waking up. – Bristlebeard Dec 28 2011 at 13:42

Carrie · Answer 4 · 2011-12-28 11:32:39Z UTC

This calming effect of carbs is opposed to the contrasting alertness-increasing (dopamine, not serotonin releasing) effect of protein consumption. Hence why low carb high protein snacks are recommended for those who get a big energy slump or dip mid-afternoon/ post lunch

Carrie · Answer 5 · 2011-12-28 11:29:11Z UTC

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Carbs will prompt a serotonin release that calms the body into sleep. Hence why you relax into drowsy town after some high carb White chocolate.

answered Dec 28 2011 at 11:29

Carrie
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	That explains the desserts after supper at my Grandparents.... – fromthericefields Aug 12 at 8:34
	All non Paleo though... Other than the Pavlova as it is eggs and sugar. Carb overload! – fromthericefields Aug 12 at 8:35

Cory151 · Answer 6 · 2012-01-20 16:16:16Z UTC

Ok I wanted to post this up to try and help anybody with this same issue I recently started taking Magnesium L-Threonate (Life extension brand) and it has almost completely made my sugar craving go away!! WTF? I was just looking to improve my memory as the other day I mistakingly placed a piece of grass fed steak in one of my kitchen drawers. Idiot.

This is crazy to me because I was taking natural calm and and doing epsom salt baths 3x per week, religiously. Also I am more focussed and I definitely am a lot less sore after lifting and have ben able to bump my workout to 3x per week rather than the two days I had been doing.

Only side effect seemed to be going #2 much easier the first couple days. Also I am told that Im sleeping with my mouth wide open now instead of clenched teeth.

Has anybody else experienced this from MgT? Was I simply suffering from a raging Mg deficiency, in spite of the Mg citrate and baths I was taking?

Joshua · Answer 7 · 2012-01-20 16:36:45Z UTC

My sleep patterns went from 10-hours/day and waking up feeling like crap (pre-Paleo), to 5-7 hours/day waking up fully refreshed and ready to go (I only need an alarm clock now to tell me when it's time to get ready for work, but not to wake up).

I woke up at 4:30 this morning, adjusted the thermostat, did the normal morning stuff (restroom, weigh-in, etc) then went back to bed for another hour "nap", then rode my bike to the store to buy bacon. I've been bouncing off the walls today. Oddly enough I went to bed later than usual last night (11:30pm or so).

My point is... don't use the amount of sleep as your barometer of health, use your mood and energy levels. Some people simply require less sleep than others.

Albert · Answer 8 · 2011-08-04 20:03:48Z UTC

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+1 for dropping caffeine after 4 pm, and noting that your body is more sensitive in general to whatever you consume.

Cory -- maybe a post-sugar-high bonk?

answered Aug 4 2011 at 20:03

Albert
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Happy Now · Answer 9 · 2011-08-04 20:55:16Z UTC

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I've noticed the same thing in the past with white chocolate. I figured it was a well timed sugar crash, along with a good dose of fat to feel satiated, calm, and sleepy.

Have you had a hormone panel done lately? Might want to make sure you haven't somehow found yourself hyperthyroid or with some cortisol issues.

answered Aug 4 2011 at 20:55

Happy Now
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I was diagnosed with HYPOthyroid at one point but Paleo has since cleaned that up, and my free test levels are supposedly in the mid 700s (ng/dl) which Im told is very good for my age. – Cory151 Aug 5 2011 at 2:42

citrusfire · Answer 10 · 2011-12-28 17:40:12Z UTC

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/opinion/19ekirch.html?_r=2.

"We now also know that pre-industrial families commonly experienced a "broken" pattern of sleep, though few contemporaries regarded it in a pejorative light. Until the modern age, most households had two distinct intervals of slumber, known as "first" and "second" sleep, bridged by an hour or more of quiet wakefulness. Usually, people would retire between 9 and 10 o'clock only to stir past midnight to smoke a pipe, brew a tub of ale or even converse with a neighbor."

It's a natural sleep pattern. People used to wake up in the middle of hte night, hang out or have sex, and then go back to sleep. When it happens to you, just own it - get up and do something for a little while and go back to sleep.

Sam · Answer 11 · 2011-08-04 17:43:30Z UTC

I'm having the same problem. I've had inconsistent success with Melatonin. What works best is controlling my environment and what I eat late in the day. This means dimming the lights and cutting off all electronics at least an hour before bed. Having a few more Carbs at dinner than I have at breakfast and lunch seems to help some too. For me, this usually comes in the form of a sweet potato or Greek yogurt with fresh berries. Also, I cannot have caffiene after around 4pm each day.

I have found that, since changing my eating habits (Paleo + goats milk dairy and Greek yogurt) and exercise habits (CrossFit + running), my body is MUCH more sensitive to what I consume. I no longer over eat unhealthy foods and sit around all day. Caffiene was not formerly a big issue...same thing for relaxing and turning off electronics before bed. My body has changed and is still changing (been at this 4 months today). I have to be patient as my body continues to adjust.

It seems I'm having to watch everything I consume and do in the evening to give myself the best chance possible of getting a good night's sleep. It seems like a fairly tedious process. I'm still figuring out this sleep element.

Please do let me know if you find a sure fire sleep solution.

This Fixed My Sleep…But.

11 Answers