Meat-eaters: have claws Herbivores: no claws Humans: no claws

Humans have tools. Richard Dawkins the evolutionary biologist coined the term "meme" meaning an object or idea that is not part of an organism's genome but affects its evolution. Humans didn't have to evolve claws because they had tools to do that for them, thus there was no selection pressure

(still contemplating my "Dawkins for Vegans" charity fund)

Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue Herbivores: perspire through skin pores Humans: perspire through skin pores

Plenty of omnivores perspire through their skin, humans are one of them.

Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Memes, again. And they're plenty sharp, they're pretty diverse, actually.

Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length. Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Cooking is a meme and shaped our digestive tract. And one of those figures is made up, because humans have by far the shorter GI tract of all apes.

Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Apparently nobody digests raw meat. Quickly, we must warn the raw paleos before it's too late! Oh wait they're pretty healthy. You vegans are the ones who can't digest meat because your body is falling apart.

Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits. Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits

Learn the word "omnivore", please. Not all meat-eaters are carnivores. You are confusing meat-eater and carnivore, they're not the same. A carnivore eats meat...oh forget it.

Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains

Again, no distinction made between meat-eating omnivores and carnivores.

Clearly if humans were meant to eat meat we wouldn't have so many crucial ingestive/digestive similarities with animals that are herbivores.

They don't really. Look at how short our GI tract is compared to other apes, many of which are not herbivores but omnivores. Memes, yeah, blah.

And there you have it. Clearly if humans, a contemplative and ingenious animal were meant to be vegan, vegans would be smarter.

You should have bit him and then asked if he still didnt think your teeth were sharp...

We don't have claws because we evolved from frugivores (Australopithecus). Each successive evolution of primitive man included more and more animal protein in its diet. This was achieved by scavenging the kills of top predators in the African savannah. For that, claws are not needed, just the ability to be quick.

Our sweat glands are different from those of herbaceous (hoofed) animals. We have what's called eccrine sweat glands, which are unique to primates and are most developed in humans. This form of cooling has evolved along with our bipedalism and hairless skin.

Hoofed animals have apocrine sweat glands which utilize a different form of secretion. Humans have these glands too, but only in the armpit and groin regions. They don't serve as a cooling mechanism for us in the way that eccrine glands do.

Actually our front teeth are pretty sharp. Carnivores have teeth designed to grab and hold onto prey, hence their large canines. But we never needed those in the first place. We have these amazing things called "opposing thumbs" that can grab, pull and lift. If you compare the jaws structure and teeth of our predecessors, they started out to be very large and flat, with heavily muscled jaws designed primarily for plant consumption. The teeth of a vegetarian. Our teeth and jaws became smaller over time because meat is so much easier to masticate than vegetation. A. boisei (now re-classified as Paranthropuus boisei) was 100% vegetarian, but he was also an evolutionary dead-end. When a species develops a specialized diet, it becomes vulnerable to extinction. If there were severe droughts and wild fires, omnivorous animals such as early man had an advantage or his vegetarian cousins. They couldn't go far from the trees and grasslands, whereas we could range far as long as there was protein of some kind.

Pertaining to the digestive tract, I'll embed a link that discusses it in greater detail.Overview of Digestive Systems of Primates/Humans

Where the strength of our gastric acid is concerned, I'd like to know where they get their information from. I can't find any data relating to the specific parts per million of HCI, potassium chloride and sodium chloride of HCI found in carnivores. I think they're full of shit. We have zero problems breaking down meat, if we did people would probably be dropping like flies.

They also must have forgotten to mention that human salivary glands also secrete salivary lipase (a more potent form of lipase) to start fat digestion. We have slightly alkalized saliva, average pH is 7.4. The average saliva of ruminants is significantly more alkaline at 8.5--they need that alkalizing buffer so the bacteria in their rumens isn't killed off by acidic spit. But we don't have rumens or multiple stomachs that are needed to most efficiently break down plant matter, now do we? Cats and dogs (one an obligate carnivore and the other a predominantly carnivorous omnivore) have an average salivary pH of 7.5 (cats) and a range of 7.34-7.80 (dogs). What does that tell you? Our saliva is actually MORE acidic than a carnivore's!

Sorry, forgot some references:

Studies on Ruminant Saliva

Nutrient Requirements of Cats & Dogs--go to page 7 for info on saliva

Humans have been eating meat for thousands (probably tens of thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands depending on your view) of years, have both canines and the metabolisms needed to chew and digest meat, and evolved to capture their meat using their brains instead of claws. Thiis much is plainly obvious.

There are numerous cultures throughout history that have lived primarily or solely on animals, but NONE that have lived primarily or solely on vegetables. From this it should be clear that humans have evolved to have at least SOME meat in their diet.

The justification for vegetarianism is based primarily on guilt... don't be drawn into it.

Just a note on canines: plenty of herbivores have daggers in their mouths; they're for threatening competitors. Here's an ordinarily gentle Gelada baboon that dines mainly on grass:

Peter Ungar, arguably the premier researcher of the evolution of the human diet as revealed (or not) by dentition, says, "The more we learn about dental functional morphology and food fracture, the more unknowable the details seem to become. Perhaps this explains why we have been unable to get beyond basic ecological categories." In other words, we don't really know, and neither do the vegetarians.

EDIT/update: This just in. No conclusions yet, but it's nice to know there's another tool in the toolbox.

**Warning, oversimplified answer with no research, read at your own risk**

It is actually pretty easy to tell what we were "meant" to eat. Plop any human down in a remote wilderness area and see what they try to eat. The hungrier they get, the more diverse their food choice will become (mmm grubs). Of course, what they eat will depend on what is available in the area, but there are a few things we know they will not try to eat. Grain.. nobody is going to try and eat grain in a survival situation. Why? It isn’t edible.

They will eat fruit, nuts, eggs, bugs, fish, tubers, and will desperately try to find MEAT. When they do manage to kill and animal they will eat it like there is no tomorrow. They will start with the organs because those will rot the soonest and can be eaten the easiest.

Here are some cool pictures of the Hadza tribe going about their daily lives. This is the rest of my (the) answer.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/12/hadza/schoeller-photography

New reality TV show:

Survivor: Ice Age Vegan

The Setting: Northern Alaska in the winter.
Stipulations: They have to find shelter, clothing, and food for themselves in any way possible.

The inevitable conclusions for all participants would be:

1. Death
2. A new found appreciation of an omnivorous lifestyle
3. Donner party action

Imagine the RATINGS!!!

The term Meat-eaters includes omnivores. Our teeth are hybrid. We can cut and tear and crush and grind. This makes our food choices more diverse.

I don't think our human ancestors cared about what they were "designed" to eat. They hunted and gathered whatever they could. We were designed to be opportunistic omnivores.

If humans were not "designed" to eat meat, what exactly did our "vegetarian" ancestors eat during the most recent 100,000 year long Ice Age?

I cannot digest vegetarian protein.

I did try -- I tried in earnest, desperately. Gluten, soy, dairy, legumes? No. My body flat-out rejects them and goes into high-alert-immune-system-response-mode and I become very ill. For several years, I suffered for my ideals, and was rewarded with chronic pain and lived in misery.

Simply stated: I am a human being, and I was designed to eat meat.

Humans weren't designed at all.

To Tony:

I have been accused on stating my opinion as fact. This is rather ridiculous since the accuser has offered mainly opinions and not facts in retort. I will try to respond point by point.

Firstly, it seems absurd to argue that because your friends report experiences then it is evidence that can be used to try to convince others. I know many people who have switched to a 100% meat diet and have improved their health. So clearly anecdotes aren’t a basis for argumentation, are they?

But let’s assume that your friends really did improve their health on a raw vegan diet. Does that mean it has anything to do with meat and cooking? Does that mean that if they added meat their health would not improve? These people invariably eliminated their consumption of junk food, because it is cooked, and therefore bad due to that fact, apparently. Trans fats, frier oils, processed this and that, all of that pathological junk was gone from their diets. Grains and most legumes too, all of it gone. They restricted calories, they increased their micro nutrition, etc. There are tons of variables that changed. To anchor on one of them is missing the bigger picture. In science we try to isolate single variables and observe them acting alone, that is how to know what causes what. If you want examples of people who ate a diet like you advocate and then simply added meat and improved their health, look through paleohacks.

Your next argument is basically asserting that meat is not palatable if it isn’t cooked and prepared so humans aren’t adapted to eat meat. I thought I covered the fact that cooking is a meme that has shaped human biology. Humans generally prefer cooked meat, they prefer all sorts of foods cooked. That is because we get more calories from cooking food, both plants and animals. Cooked bananas are more palatable than raw ones to me and many others. Many people like plain cooked meat with nothing on it, but they develop preferences to more palatable combinations. It isn’t to “hide the taste” it is simply a preference. Cooked fruit covered in honey and cinnamon tastes better than plain fruit, this clearly isn’t an argument against eating fruit is it? Some people hate plain fruit and need to dip it in chocolate. It is a mistake to believe that one’s own conditioning and preferences are an example of the essential biology all peoples. Take the Inuit who love raw meat, or any number of hunter-gatherers who insist on consuming meat, even if it isn’t salted and spiced. It takes a while to unlearn a preference, but if all I had was plain cooked rabbit that would become very palatable. It has happened with lamb during the time I mistakenly thought that salt was unhealthy. Plain lamb tastes great and I am happy to eat it if I don't have salt and spice.

Next you have tried to compare humans to other animals. Sorry but this is simply invalid, the genome determines which foods are optimal for an animal and differences in strength and longevity can also be functions of genomic differences. Clearly I know more about chimpanzees than you do, since chimpanzees do eat meat; not a lot of it but they eat it. And they are able to eat meat extremely efficiently http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=4035 The strength of chimpanzees has little to do with diet, it has more to do with neuronal wiring. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090330200829.htm Humans who eat meat and cholesterol are demonstrably stronger than humans that don’t by virtue of eating them. Anecdotes won’t save the vegan argument here, real science has demonstrated that eating animals improves strength. http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=3594

Your anecdotes of cancer survivors do not provide reliable evidence. I know of people who ate a carnivorous diet to get over cancer. If people eating a raw vegan diet do survive cancer more frequently than people who do not, this again isn’t necessarily an argument against any particular food, just that the entire protocol is more effective than doing nothing at all.

There may actually be a reason why a vegan diet could help with cancer, and that is protein deficiency. A very low protein diet can impair the ability of cancer cells to replicate. However a high animal protein diet is better for preventing cancer in the first place http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/09/curious-case-of-campbells-rats-does.html And I do not currently have cancer. So I think that I will side with protein sufficiency.

Humans have been eating meat for over a million years. And there is no evidence that humans used to live longer than they do now that has been established, however even if there was there would be no use in speculating about differences between populations due to confounding factors. They were more heavily burdened by pathogens, but got more exercise, for example. All we can do is speculate on whether or not there has been enough time and ability to adapt to a food. Evidence suggests that we have adapted to benefit from meat http://healthydietsandscience.blogspot.ca/2011/02/evidence-of-human-adaptation-to.html Humans synthesize certain molecules like carnitine, creatine, carnosine and others, but the highest and most beneficial levels are only obtained through eating meat. It’s a very complicated subject, I encourage you to look into the hard science of nutrition and wish you luck on your tree-swinging adventures.

As I have said on another post(s?)

Vegans, and vegetarians, do NOT live longer than meat eaters, they just LOOK OLDER than meat eaters.

I have also heard from a number of former 15 to 20 year vegans that their teeth start to ROT and FALL out - almost ALL of them. Veganism did NOT give them sufficient nutrition to maintain healthy teeth. So, JessInSD ask your vegan associate to come back after he has been one for 20 years, and have him show what is left of his teeth.

We evolved on eating animal protein of any kind we could lay hands on - you don't need to be a saber tooth tiger to catch and eat insects and little critters. And you can easily chew meat with our typical primate's dental formula: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dentition#Dental_formula - as the chimps do too.

Look at the difference of the dental formula between herbivores and carnivores:

If the vegetarian's teeth look like those on the left picture - he should see his dentist...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dentition#Dental_formula

And you don't need any teeth to gulp down sea food... just suck the oister out of her shell...

Our ancestors survived with a maritime diet throughout a tight spot in evolution when they would otherwise have gone extinct:

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/332828/title/Water%E2%80%99s_edge_ancestors

Refer him to the book Catching Fire by Richard Wrangham.

It points out that our dental structure and digestive tract are unique in the animal kingdom. We don't have the teeth or digestive system of a carnivore. On the other hand, we don't have the teeth or digestive system of a herbivore. On top of that, our teeth and digestive system don't look like they typical omnivore's.

Our teeth and digestive systems are unique, because they have become adapted to a diet that is unique to humans: cooked food. And, in particular, we're physically adapted to eating cooked meat.

However long ago it was that humans tamed fire and started cooking food, it was long enough to allow humans to evolve to the point that we're designed to eat cooked food as our primary food source.

The book points out a number of evolutionary/survival advantages associated with eating cooked meat, so it makes sense that humans that adapted to eating cooked food would end up dominating over time.

The bottom line is: the basis of his argument is flawed. The fact that our teeth aren't the same as the typical carnivore's is because the typical carnivore is adapted to eating raw meat, and we are adapted to eating cooked meat.

If he continues to argue his point, ask him why we don't resemble the typical herbivore either. Our mouth is small (the opening and volume it can hold), or teeth (particularly the moalars) are small, our jaw muscles are small and weak, our stomachs empty quickly, our intestines are short, and food travels through our intestines quickly. All of these are the opposite attributes than you would find in the typical herbivore.

They are the adaptations you would expect to find in an animal that was evolved to eat cooked food (particularly cooked meat) as it primary food source.

Ya we have teeth like a cow - lmao!!

Humans are omnivores - we eat anything but our advantage is our big brain and hands with those great thumbs - like someone said we are opportunistic omnivores. The fact that we can think and reason out solutions to problems allow us to not rely on claws & sharp teeth, we are able to manipulate our environment as well. It is why we are the apex predators of this world and we are so successful that we are actually destroying our own world.

Try to read all five sections...

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carn_herb_comparison.html

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carn_herb_comparison2.html

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carn_herb_comparison3.html

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carn_herb_comparison4.html

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carn_herb_comparison5.html

Dr Groves compares sheep, dogs, and humans. This article cemented forever in my mind that we are indeed carnivores.

I most say I am wholly impressed at the thoughtful and lengthy responses of so many carnivores!! Well done meat eaters!

The differences in features are because tools and fire were a MAJOR part of human evolution. So, of course we do not need claws, canine teeth, or digestive tracts like those of pure carnivores because we hunt animals with weapons, process, and then cook the meat prior to consuming it.

Meat eaters... Plant eaters... Humans?

More like: Carnivores... Herbivores... OMNIVORES!

What a crock of @#$%. Skewed vegan BS, as always.

One often overlooked piece of proof we are evolved to eat meat and the fat associated with it is the gall bladder.

Herbivores don't need large amounts of bile and some of them like the rat for example do not have gall bladders.

The gall bladder in humans is proof that we are evolved to eat large amounts of fat and by implication meat.

That's probably why humans are omnivores...

Perhaps some people are more adapted to their genetics than we know. Maybe dr. Adamo, "Eat for Your Blood Type"* was on to something...Also, I don't think my ancestors scottish/Irish lived very long....what about that? Think the life span was much shorter than now...due to weak immune systems? Unclean ways to prepare food? Famines?

We aren't "designed" to eat meat. That's a true, but very misleading statement. We're EVOLVED to eat meat. Bugs the hell out of me to when I see folks who claim to embrace science over that "other" path use a word like design when they should say evolved, or anthropomorphize forces such as nature/evolution into "mother nature." It's like they're working for the other team.

WooW don't take this the wrong way vegetarian is a little bit like a cult.Ok I sorry, what I mean is I think that when people go vegetarian they get the added effect of the placebo effect. So when they only eat 30 bananas a day if they believe that they are getting healthier they do plus the fact that they believe that they are saving the world. With out having to leave there hemp arm chairs. So with the believe that this vegetarian diet will make the person healthier it does because of the placebo effect.

Like when a tribe of people go hunting for a animal they will always go for the liver or the heart.The person making the documentaries will always say into the camera "these people believe that the liver/heart of this animal will make them stronger" And it does because it the highest nutrient base foods.

Hmm it's funny that.

Sorry I thought I bring up a different argument.

I can get a whole list of why we're carnivores too. Anyway, we are omnivores. 1. Our teeth proves we're omnivores. It's neither vegan or purely carnivorous by nature. 2. Our digestive system is closer to the carnivore's. Vegan animals have four stomachs. 3. And Inuits would be dead by now if humans weren't designed to eat meat. Most of their food is animal based. Vegans are culturally biased.

Where are you getting your evidence to argue the fact that humans are meant to eat meat? Obviously you've "prepared" yourself to argue against vegans but it seems more opinion than fact. I always say the proof is in the pudding. I know many raw vegans. When they cut meat and other cooked food out of their diet, their health improved ten fold. Most if not all of them never get sick. Your argument would have more validity if you admitted to killing your animal and eating it raw while the enzymes are still intact. If you were starving on a deserted island and came upon a tree of bananas and a rabbit, which would you be more inclined to devour? Would you salivate over a rabbit? If humans were meant to eat meat, why to we cook it, prepare it in different ways and add spice/condiments to hide the flavor? Another overlooked fact: the biggest, strongest and longest living animals don't eat meat. (Chimps, Elephants etc.) If you notice, when these animals eat greens and plants, they're constantly chewing which converts the plants into a paste that can be digested. I've known over a dozen people that cured all types of cancer by switching to a raw vegan diet. How can you dispute proof like that? People say that our lifespan was shorter 100 or so years ago. However, if you go way way back, humans lived longer than we do today. WHenever someone argues what our diet should be all you have to do is try different ways of eating and take note how you feel and look. The proof is in the pudding :)

I believe we are like a empty cup, what ever we put inside us we are. we eat meat we are this and that... we eat greens we are that and this...

There are good examples of vegan cultures thriving and i think there are enough human races capable of thriving on a vegan diet...

humans aren't the same , I def feel much better on a mostly vegetables,fruit,250gram max fish and for kcal sweet potatoe or rice or even oatmeal.

i felt weak and slow for weeks on a heavy meat diet..

things like pure fat or pork in general just make me feel slow.

A lot of points here raised about digestive tracts, tooth structure, etc... Just wanted to raise another in the pro-omnivore camp. Some time (like few years) ago I watched a documentary that happened to mention that it is pretty much agreed among anthropologists that humans need meat in their diet - the evolution of our large brain was due to an increase in protein intake, and the amounts involved simply could not be possible on an all-plant diet. I can't offer more info than that since that's all I remember, but this may be one area to look at the next time someone pulls you in for a discussion.