Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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A simple example illustrates the intent of this question: Product A:free-range, grain-fed chicken eggs: $6.00/dozen Product B:factory eggs: $2.30/dozen

Weighing costs and benefits, would it not behoove one to simply up the intake of Product B and forgo product A altogether if one desires to increase nutrient intake? I mean this with regards to: beef, cheeses, eggs, butter, organs, and all other animal products and by-products. It seems the organic folk are very good salespeople.

flag	asked Aug 11 2011 at 13:14 PersonMan

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-1 for your insinuation that organic is the problem in food supply with regard to economics and consumerism. You might be asking a question here, but I disagree with this mentality and I don't like it when people spread the wrong understanding of the situation. In other words, you're on the wrong team here with the way you worded this question. You have to look at the bigger picture. There's a reason the prices are what they are. Faulting "organic folk" makes no sense dude. – Jack Kronk Aug 11 2011 at 15:00

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but thats the way the market stands. We can't all be political crusaders, especially when we live hand-to-mouth. Thats the mentality of the spoiled leisure class: "let them eat cake"... – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 15:36

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PersonMan - you are the one who chose to go live in the wilderness. You cannot fault organic farming just because you are broke. Yes. I meant to put that. Let's shoot straight arrows here, shall we? If you were independetly wealthy, would you be concerned about the price? – Jack Kronk Aug 11 2011 at 15:42

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I am on the health and wellness committee at my place of work. They want to do a 'challenge' for all the employees. They decided on a vegetarian week challenge. I wanted to stir the pot a bit and see what kind of reaction I get so I suggested a 'grass fed meat' challenge. One lady chuckled and said... "well.. but grass fed meat is sooooooo expensive. There's no way I'm doing that." And I said.. Um. Is this a Health and Wellness Committee or not? Organic Vegetarianism is 'expensive' too. Let's keep it real here." A few moments of silence ensued. – Jack Kronk Aug 11 2011 at 15:47

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But seriously. If you choose to live off your land, then great! It's all good man. But that doesn't mean that mass factory farmed eggs are suddenly better to eat just because they are less expensive. That's my point here. – Jack Kronk Aug 11 2011 at 17:06

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being · Answer 1 · 2011-08-11 14:52:59Z UTC

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i dont know why this was so harshly downvoted, and OF COURSE there is no explanation left.

for me, pastured eggs are THIRTEEN DOLLARS A DOZEN. grain fed from a local medium sized farm are TWO DOLLARS a dozen. for me its a no brainer. maybe someday ill have that kind of money, but right now its not in the cards. everyone has to draw the line somewhere, i say. yes of course its ideal to get pastured eggs, but for some people (especially people with dependents) its just not possible. we all make compromises.

answered Aug 11 2011 at 14:52

being
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At that price you could get DODO eggs. Lets be realistic here. Life doesn't consist of buying eggs and most of this organicism is a status thing more than a health thing with most people... – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 15:38

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and, i agree that its a status thing for a lot of people. "organic" is not always the best choice. sometimes its local, sometimes its fair trade, sometimes its conventional and yeah sometimes organic is best. i tend towards local-humane over industrial "organic". customers ask me all the time if my skincare stuff is "organic" and i tell them that i make my choices based on the BEST available to me, and thats not always organic. sometimes i think its a marketing term more than anything. – being Aug 11 2011 at 15:51

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yep. i agree that organic is not always the best option. i like the way you put it akd. "local humane over industrial organic". – Jack Kronk Aug 11 2011 at 17:17

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but one thing to add, which is why I gave the answer that I did, is that the egg farmers who are trying to do it right are highly affected by the industrial giants. This is very unfair. And we 'vote' with our dollars. It will NEVER ever change so long as the vast majority of people continue to buy factory farmed eggs that are super cheap. This is where the money argument comes into play. – Jack Kronk Aug 11 2011 at 17:19

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oh, i absolutely understand what youre saying jack, and i agree. i feel lucky that i live someplace where i have so many choices for locally sourced food, but i recognize that not everyone does. when it comes to health, i would rather see people eating industrial eggs than organic kashi go lean cereal for brekkie, but in a perfect world, it would be nice if humane food were more affordable for those of us scraping nickels from under the seat to pay the toll, you know? – being Aug 11 2011 at 18:37

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Karen · Answer 2 · 2011-08-11 13:18:26Z UTC

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If you up the intake of a product with imbalanced omega-3 to omega-6 FA ratios, such as eggs, than you just increase the amount of imbalance. It might be good idea to purchase directly from local farmers or have your won flock if possible.

answered Aug 11 2011 at 13:18

Karen
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Aren't the PUFAs small in amount though? At what level would they be considered negligible(I deem butter and tallow to contain negligible amounts and so have no problem opting for grain-fed; obviously there are other concerns entailed in grain-fed but as far as 0-3:0-6 ratio is concerned it doesn't factor into my dietary habits). – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 13:37

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From your earlier question re: limited number of foods in diet, it seems as though this strategy could throw off your numbers quite a lot. Or you could make up the difference by including wild salmon and greens in your diet. – Karen Aug 11 2011 at 17:08

If you're farming out in the wilderness with little cash, the logical thing is to learn to produce/catch/hunt your own food and purchase as little as possible. It may be that financially you will have to accept eating some lower grade food while you get started, but don't trick yourself into thinking it's just as good as quality food. If you have to go that route, know that it is a temporary measure. – Karen Aug 11 2011 at 17:19

This is mainly a short-term state that I have to be in but often a fall-back given the contingencies of life. Eventually I would like to cultivate my own food(chickens, etc.) but I am a student now and etc... Wouldn't it be undesirable to increase uptake of PUFAs to balance out a skewed ratio of 0-3:0-6; just "suffer" the imbalance? Would this not be healthier in the long run(assuming it will be a long-term staete people are in-a though experiment). – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 19:52

hatcherooni · Answer 3 · 2011-08-11 13:38:08Z UTC

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The benefits are more than omega 3s-- the benefits to the animals you eat are also important. When I buy meat from my local butcher, I know that the steak I'm eating is from a cow that spent time on grass instead of a feed lot. My eggs are from chickens who eat bugs.

answered Aug 11 2011 at 13:38

hatcherooni
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	who cares about the animals.(callous statement). – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 13:55
	Damn, I wish we could down vote comments. – Karen Aug 11 2011 at 17:21

Jack Kronk · Answer 4 · 2011-08-11 14:53:14Z UTC

"It seems the organic folk are very good salespeople."

Maybe, PersonMan.

1: What's wrong with being a good salesperson?

2: When are people gonna finally just cave in to the notion that Organic is the way it's supposed to be? Do you think there were any unnatural pesticides thousands of years ago? Farmers may have used other means to keep pests away, but they weren't using nasty chemicals because they didn't have access to that.

Chickens shouldn't be eating soybeans. That is a decision that humans have forced on the chickens for profit.

Organic Farming shouldn't be called Organic Farming. It should just be called Farming.

It is the Non-organic Farming that should be called Non-Organic Farming.

sage_ · Answer 5 · 2011-08-11 14:17:27Z UTC

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in your example, i see no reason to buy the more expensive "free range" eggs because of the negligible differnce in how the hens live and what they eat. i believe if the choice was between either of those and pastured eggs, the extra cost of pastured would be off set by a better quality product.

answered Aug 11 2011 at 14:17

sage_
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are omega-6 FFAs really that significant? At what point( in terms of grams) do they become such for most people as far as inflammation et.al is concerned? – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 14:28

honestly, my comments stem from my belief that less stressed hens produce better eggs independent of their diet. – sage_ Aug 11 2011 at 14:49

True. But how do you evaluate the mind of a hen(or its hormonal state)? Can you use metempsychosis or your psychic powers? – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 15:39

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i am incapable of either; at least i hope not to be reincarnated as a hen. also i think it would be somewhat unseemly for a straight woman to be known as "the chick whisperer". i have only my gut feeling about this to rely on. – sage_ Aug 11 2011 at 16:00

I've always looked upon myself as a "red island road" prized rooster(in foghorn leghorn's words). – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 16:40

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Eric · Answer 6 · 2011-08-11 14:33:58Z UTC

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Buy the best eggs possible. It is rather cheap and it is worth it.

edited Aug 11 2011 at 14:33

answered Aug 11 2011 at 14:13

Eric
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not if they exceed the cost of battery eggs by 3x. At 1 dozen per day that adds to 3x... – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 14:26

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To me the omega 6/3 ratio is worth the extra money... – Eric Aug 11 2011 at 14:34

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$! – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 14:39

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TOTALLY agree Eric. Even at so called "ridiculous prices". Like for example, I pay $6.99 per dozen for Vital Farms Eggs from whoel paycheck. Ok so that is $0.58 per egg. If I eat 3 eggs for a meal, that's only $1.74. Add some other items like veggies and maybe a potato, and I might be at a whopping $2.50 to $3.00. You can't even buy a small burrito for that price. People line up out the door at Rubios to buy chicken burritos at $5.99 a piece. I could have 2 complete, healthy meals for that price eating Paleo. To echo Eric... the best eggs are still cheaper than many other foods. – Jack Kronk Aug 11 2011 at 18:19

"People line up out the door at Rubios to buy chicken burritos at $5.99 a piece": the term 'line-up suits a goy-ish mentality(cattle). cost per day for food for self=$10CAN. – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 19:55

Dragonfly · Answer 7 · 2011-08-11 14:41:27Z UTC

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You may want to read this article and then decide: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/human-interference-factor/

Health costs/benefits are definitely part of the economic equation for me.

answered Aug 11 2011 at 14:41

Dragonfly
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if you have the money: let them eat cake is the creed n'est pas? – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 14:45

Nemesis · Answer 8 · 2011-08-11 14:51:58Z UTC

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I would not be able to eat Paleo if I had to buy organic, grass-fed, meats, eggs & dairy. Instead I supplement with Omega-3.

So it's either battery eggs and factory farmed meat, or SAD :( Maybe once money isn't so tight I can start buying more Paleo-friendly meats.

answered Aug 11 2011 at 14:51

Nemesis
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	I second your platform. But wouldn't it be best to avoid 0-3 supplementation and simply 'suffer' the omega fat imbalance. – PersonMan Aug 11 2011 at 15:40
	Hmm, I'm not sure.... – Nemesis Aug 11 2011 at 15:50

agro-economics and consumerism

8 Answers