Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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I absolutely love foie gras, and was kind of aware that the ducks are force fed to produce such a large liver, but have only recently thought more about this and looked it up (mostly cuz I found some at a local market!).
The conditions are horrifying (read about caged ducks who can't even move much/bloody and inflamed rears/bloated legs/bleeding to death from the tube punctures), etc etc. And then something about increased amyloid fibrils from eating it? That is scary, but it makes sense since this would be super diseased-liver--one that is 10x a normal one apparently.

If we try not to eat liver from CAFO animals, why would foie gras be ok? From this viewpoint it would be the absolute worse thing to eat coming from essentially obese, nonactive ducks with liver and other chronic diseases.

Baah, I am sad now. I don't think I can eat any more of this happily :(

edited Aug 17 2011 at 18:41

Bread-Eating Beelzebub
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asked Aug 17 2011 at 16:25

xue
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i'm so sick of seeing one particular person on here with "close thread" powers, routinely closing off things in an arbitrary manner. this topic SHOULD NOT have been closed off. it's not off topic. the random enforcement of the "closed as diplicative" thing is just silly too, because it's random enforcement! consistency or nothing. why not leave everything up if it's not racially inflammatory or a direct ad hominem attack? – delete me Aug 17 2011 at 17:32

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I have changed the question to be less political and re-opened it. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Aug 17 2011 at 18:40

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Melissa is right -- doesn't have a lot to do with Paleo. If this thread gets out of hand, we'll delete it. For the record, I am sick of seeing ppl complaining about the great job the mods (Melissa, Gillian, Ed, Kamal & Wcc Paul) are doing. – Patrik♦ Aug 17 2011 at 18:58

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How could the consumption of liver not have to do with paleo? Liver is the most important food. This is a very good question given that some people can't stomach ruminant liver and seek that nutrient density elsewhere. – Travis Culp♦ Aug 17 2011 at 19:34

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Thanks for re-opening this one Melissa. I also think this topic is very much paleo-related. I would like to see more discussions about treatment of animals and how that relates to our community. I find it ironic and honestly unsettling that we demand a natural diet and lifestyle for ourselves yet aren't demanding the same of the animals we ingest. To me our participation in forcing unnatural lives (food and otherwise) on other animals is something worthy of our time and discussion. – Shari Bambino Aug 18 2011 at 2:00

show 7 more comments

Corbie · Answer 1 · 2011-08-17 16:37:22Z UTC

Gordon Ramsay's "F Word" talked about ethical veal a season or two ago -- the calves were not confined, were happy, well-cared-for, and tasted awesome.

One basic fact of the dairy industry is that you're going to have surplus males; you mostly need cows for dairy production. So what do you do with the male calves you don't need? Veal is the logical result. But veal calves can be treated humanely; they don't have to suffer. If we, as consumers, insist on that we can make a difference.

Ethical foie gras in Spain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5c4TXfDHZY&NR=1

Ethical veal: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/dining/18veal.html?ex=1334548800&en=4f509f15fd7c39c4&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

being · Answer 2 · 2011-08-17 16:32:47Z UTC

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foie gras is absolutely NOT ok from a humane animal treatment standpoint. i know its so delicious, but i personally wont eat it for the reasons you mentioned. there is other liver pate that is delicious, too and much more humane!

answered Aug 17 2011 at 16:32

being
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thanks for the downvote with no comment, goose-hater. – being Aug 17 2011 at 22:10

I haven't told you I love you yet today, have I akd? :-* – sherpamelissa Aug 18 2011 at 20:18

ANOTHER anonymous downvote. cowards. there is nothing wrong with this answer except that someone doesnt want to hear it. WHATever. and i love you, too melissa. – being Aug 18 2011 at 22:09

Seriously? That's freaking bizarre. Who cares that much about this topic? – sherpamelissa Aug 19 2011 at 2:18

lol i keep getting downvotes too, somewhere. (how do you find where they are?) +1 to undo some of your downvoting :) – xue Aug 19 2011 at 8:28

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air_hadoken · Answer 3 · 2011-08-18 16:57:02Z UTC

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Fowl livers are not diseased merely by being fatty. The primary fat stores for birds reside in the liver and not subcutaneously like they do in mammals. Birds naturally gorge and fatten their livers up prior to migration, so that they have the ability to fly long distances.

answered Aug 18 2011 at 16:57

air_hadoken
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I think of it as duck butter. All that fat dilutes the liver flavor and makes it spreadable. In France it is commoditized and sold in cans like tuna, and is more affordable than in the USA. It is popular as a topping for green salads, as are other poultry offal (salade aux gesiers). I was warned not to buy it raw and cook it myself - you have to do it right or it comes out bitter. – thhq Aug 18 2011 at 18:08

so it would be worse to eat the diseased liver, right? (if the fat is stored primarily in the liver) o_o. I did see something about the gorging, but i don't think it's as much as force-fed – xue Aug 19 2011 at 8:23

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It depends on the species of bird. Some birds can increase their body mass by 55% just by fattening the liver. It would be bad to eat a diseased liver, just like it would be bad to eat any diseased animal product. But a fatty avian liver is not a diseased one; it's not the same as hepatitis. There's no cell damage or inflammation. When the gorging or gavage stops, the fat dissipates from the liver and it returns to a non-fatty, less tasty state. – air_hadoken Aug 19 2011 at 16:04

Rock_Paper_Shirley · Answer 4 · 2011-08-17 16:33:27Z UTC

Many years ago, I decided to refuse to eat veal (whose flesh is tender and white because it's never allowed to move and spends its entire life standing still in its own filth) or fois gras because of the cruel and filthy conditions under which they are forced to live.

Humans die from fatty liver, so the idea of eating something that unhealthy is just kind of awful.

From a paleo standpoint, that kind of unnatural upbringing doesn't fit, either.

Jack Kronk · Answer 5 · 2011-08-17 16:36:29Z UTC

Yah it can be a pretty brutal process.

I was at an expensive Restaurant in San Diego called Lone Star Texas (or something like that) with a big group of co-workers and the waiter was explaining the 'specialty' of the night >> Fois Gras. This girl that was in our group was like "OMG! I know what that is... Isn't that where they... " and went off on basically a lot of the stuff you just mentioned, talking about choking the ducks and the ducks barfing up blood and everything. She even tilted her head back and wrenched her neck for effect. She tore that dude to pieces. Needless to say.. NOBODY was interested in Fois Gras. He didn't even know what to say. Pwned.

At first I was like... "Um... yah I'll have that, please." to break the awkwardness. Everyone laughed so I felt pretty cool for a second. I ended up getting delicious seared scallops.

thhq · Answer 6 · 2011-08-17 19:01:44Z UTC

Foie gras is delicious. A close approximate is to simmer the liver of an ordinary duck or goose, chop finely, add an equal amount of butter and purée in a food processor. Duck isn't a very meaty bird but after you render all the fat and make faux foie gras you have a pretty good offset on the cost of the maigrets and leg quarters.

Corbie · Answer 7 · 2011-08-17 16:34:13Z UTC

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I've seen a few things re ethical foie gras -- if you can find that in your local market, it might not be so bad.

Google "ethical foie gras" and see if the techniques used make you feel any better.

answered Aug 17 2011 at 16:34

Corbie
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Bread-Eating Beelzebub · Answer 8 · 2011-08-17 16:39:35Z UTC

Saying all foie gras is produced inhumanely is like saying like beef is produced inhumanely. There are good and bad farms. If you want to see a tour of a good one, check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABeWlY0KFv8

You can also get foie gras-like naturally if you are willing to hunt since waterfowl naturally gorge themselves http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2010/11/ethical-foie-gras-no-force-feeding-necessary/66261/

As for the amyloid issue, my understanding is that was done in lab conditions feeding animals absurd amounts. I eat foie gras maybe once a year.

That said, I don't see what this has to do with paleo and I'm closing it. Take it to another discussion forum.

John J. Collins · Answer 9 · 2011-09-14 23:27:18Z UTC

1- There is ZERO evidence that Foie Gras has any healthful benefit over and above that of Pate of liver from a non-forced-fed Duck. 2- Therefore, the ONLY reason why these ducks are force-fed is for human PLEASURE, human CURIOSITY and/or human EGO. Again, the act of force-feeding does not to confer any health benefit to the eater. 3-Passively-fed, farmed/domestic ducks do not gorge themselves and thus do not attain such a fatty livers of their own accord. 4-The force-feeding is a 'non-genetically-congruent' brand of farming in that it results in fatty-liver disease in the animal. The animal is resisting the entire time and the animal will not stay at the gavage tube on its own unless it is held there or forced to stay there. 5-Wild, migrating birds do not self-fatten their livers anywhere near the extreme of the forced-feeding-gavage, but as Melissa points out in her link, there are some rare exceptions where a wild bird has a substantially-fattened liver. But these are rare exceptions and not the rule.

To me, being healthy is not about what I find pleasurable or tasty. If one wants to see PETA gain more political power and leverage, then go ahead and continue enjoying Foie Gras.

Finally, as Joel Salatin would likely ask: Are we letting the duck "express its duckiness" when gavaging the animal? I do not think so.

Foie Gras= 2500 year old Epic Fail!

Edit: Thought I would add this video. Watch the whole thing though! Very insightful, I promise. http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_parable.html The chef/speaker makes an amazing case against conventional foie gras. I've long pondered how something like foie gras got invented. Now I have my answer.

old croc · Answer 10 · 2011-08-18 13:09:55Z UTC

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isn't foie gras just the fat from (minimally processed) grain?

answered Aug 18 2011 at 13:09

old croc
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Andre Chimene · Answer 11 · 2011-08-19 05:36:06Z UTC

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Only for the bird...

answered Aug 19 2011 at 5:36

Andre Chimene
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This was my first thought as well. – JansSushiBar Sep 14 2011 at 15:20

Is Foie Gras unhealthy?

11 Answers