Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

13

1

If I understand Dr. K's blog post below, that is what he is asserting:

http://jackkruse.com/gnolls-com-opens-the-door-to-obesity-fight/

It seems plausible, and of course as a T2, I'm very interested...

Any papers that support this? (Wow, Dr K. - you have your own tag!)

flag	asked Aug 22 2011 at 13:00 Dave S. 21k●1●11●65

2

Plenty of them. Thousands in fact. Carb sane asked for one in the comment section and I pulled one off my hard drive. Any biochemistry book or endocrine book has them listed as well. Very commonly written about but it appears not the tip of many people tongues who talk about IR. – The Quilt Aug 22 2011 at 14:51

+1 for commenting on a post about your blog. And I really miss the old jokes about floppy disks... I suppose I really asked this question to raise awareness. I knew there was a magnesium-diabetes connection, but thank you for elucidating the mechanism. – Dave S. Aug 22 2011 at 17:20

Dave I did not elucidate it......I just allowed some sunshine to shine back on it. It seemed that on that particular SG blog comment section they all we blind to how it all starts. I learned it just like most other docs did and I remember it........maybe not like the others did. Posting about it just shown some light back upon it. – The Quilt Aug 22 2011 at 21:28

1

@Jack: No I asked for specific references to support your assertion that Mg deficiency always predates insulin resistance. You sent me to any recently published medical school text. I asked if Guyton & Hall qualified. I don't have the time to follow links through abstracts and texts when I'm looking for specifics. Of course anyone could do a Google scholar search an Mg and IR and find a shitload of citations for a correlation. One citation backing up that assertion is all I'm looking for. – Evelyn aka CarbSane Aug 22 2011 at 23:35

I guess that is the crux of my question. Is magnesium THE cause of IR. One of many colluding causal factors (including, say fructose, alcohol). Or even simply a result of IR, making it worse. I'm guessing that it is causal, but not alone. (As usual, the body is not simple). And I'm strangely honored by the presence of CarbSane! – Dave S. Aug 23 2011 at 1:26

show 3 more comments

free3337 · Accepted Answer · 2011-08-22 15:34:52Z UTC

Here's a few relevant studies:

Mg in diabetic rats: better glucose control and less diabetes development.
Low Mg diets in healthy humans for 4 weeks: 25% reduced insulin sensitivity.
Mg in diabetics: increased insulin sensitivity. Specifically,
Mg over 16 weeks in diabetics: 22% HbA1c improvement.
Mg in insulin resistant people for 4 months: 43% reduced insulin resistance, 32% reduced fasting insulin, 39% reduced triglycerides.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7485490
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/21/6/1024
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12663588
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15223977
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1595589
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12663588
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15223977

cliff · Answer 2 · 2011-08-22 13:08:51Z UTC

4

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=magnesium+insulin+resistance&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=on

Tons of papers on the subject

answered Aug 22 2011 at 13:08

cliff
13.4k●2●9●28

This is what I said in the blog and to carb sane. To me the comments in SG blog were very disturbing from a clinical stand point. – The Quilt Aug 22 2011 at 14:55

And yet amongst the thousands, you can't provide one citation specifically to back up your blanket assertion. Do you not see the problem here? – Evelyn aka CarbSane Aug 23 2011 at 0:10

1

Im not the one with the question in her mind. You are. I gave you plenty of leads.....take the plunge. I am not your librarian – The Quilt Aug 23 2011 at 2:40

1

Jack, YOU made the claim on your website. Your readers would presume that you have not just one but several citations in mind when you stated that "Mg deficiency always predates IR". Thanks for clarifying that you have nothing. – Evelyn aka CarbSane Aug 23 2011 at 13:00

Evelyn are you The Quilt's self-appointed auditor? – AdrianaG Nov 2 2011 at 20:02

Eric · Answer 3 · 2011-08-22 14:38:19Z UTC

4

We know that by supplementing with magnesium, we improve insulin sensitivity because insulin requires magnesium for binding and for synthesis.

The Magnesium Factor Magnesium researchers, Mildred S. Seelig MD. MPH. Andrea Rosanoff, PhD.

answered Aug 22 2011 at 14:38

Eric
22.5k●1●18●71

3

The ATPase that controls all energy metabolism requires mag too. It is vital and is the first thing that goes bye bye in chronic Insulin elevation and then the T2 cascade begins – The Quilt Aug 22 2011 at 14:54

Caveman formally known as Dan · Answer 4 · 2011-08-22 17:35:35Z UTC

4

Here's my N equals 1 experiment. I restarted Natural Calm this week and as a Type 1 diabetic have had so much better utilization of my insulin.

answered Aug 22 2011 at 17:35

Caveman formally known as Dan
4,873●3●17●53

1

Biochemistry 101 wins again! – The Quilt Aug 22 2011 at 18:40

thaneverbefore · Answer 5 · 2011-08-22 15:55:47Z UTC

3

Stephan has written about it:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/02/magnesium-and-insulin-sensitivity.html

answered Aug 22 2011 at 15:55

thaneverbefore
276●1●2●5

	That's a really great post! – Dave S. Aug 22 2011 at 18:41
	That bothers me even more.....honestly. – The Quilt Aug 22 2011 at 21:30

FED at LiveCaveman.com · Answer 6 · 2011-08-22 13:31:32Z UTC

2

The Google scholar search revealed numerous articles supporting the role of adequate intracellular magnesium and functioning glucose metabolism/insulin sensitivity, however, I could not find any indication of the dose and type of magnesium used in the studies.

Does anybody have any resources pointing to these factors?

I'm currently supplementing my diet with 2 tsp of Natural Calm (350mg magnesium citrate) at night, and am wondering if this is sufficient.

answered Aug 22 2011 at 13:31

FED at LiveCaveman.com
19.3k●20●61

1

Not a big fan of natural calm at all. – The Quilt Aug 22 2011 at 14:55

1

Chris Kresser recommends magensium glycinate or malate because they are better absorbed and have less side effects thehealthyskeptic.org/… – Payam Aug 22 2011 at 15:30

1

@Quilt, what is it about natural calm that you don't like? I want to learn as much as I can about this subject and am just curious. – FED at LiveCaveman.com Aug 22 2011 at 15:33

I also love Natural Calm but I know a lot of people that it doesn't agree with, I'd like to get some non-website info on NC. I thought Mg citrate was the most readily absorbed form but can't find literature on it. – Nutritionator Aug 22 2011 at 15:51

i take ZMA, i cant live without it – Mallory Aug 22 2011 at 16:15

nancy64 · Answer 7 · 2011-08-22 14:10:31Z UTC

2

Dr. K's blogpost sent me to Carolyn Dean's book, The Miracle of Magnesium (2003). However, she is so full of conventional wisdom and so wrong, IMO, in key areas (no saturated fat, whole grains, etc.), that it makes it difficult for me to follow her advice on magnesium. She also says that magnesium needs to be taken on an empty stomach. I cannot find any other source that says this. What about the timing of taking magnesium supplement?

answered Aug 22 2011 at 14:10

nancy64
1,398●3●16

3

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water......the book is an awesome resource for magnesium not overall health care. Do you throw out the dictionary because then word ain't is in the now? – The Quilt Aug 22 2011 at 14:52

2

So is she correct about taking Mg on an empty stomach? It is the areas where I have no expertise that make it difficult for me to accept information that is 8 yrs. old from an authority when they are wrong about other areas. She may very well be a great resource on magnesium. I would like to see some corroboration from other experts. I will look into the studies suggested. – nancy64 Aug 22 2011 at 15:18

1

yes.....i have all my patients take Mg on empty stomach with water....you cant take it with Ca or with Vit D at all. – The Quilt Aug 22 2011 at 21:31

Thanks Dr. K. I have not found this anywhere else and I would say it is rather important to know this! So I suppose take first dose first thing in the morning before protein breakfast and last dose just before bed to assure absorption. – nancy64 Aug 22 2011 at 23:23

Nancy, unless you also happen to be taking an early moring Vitamin D dose... – AdrianaG Nov 2 2011 at 20:04

majkinetor · Answer 8 · 2011-09-11 13:50:17Z UTC

Just out:

Nine studies uncovered a significant protective effect for increased magnesium intake against the risk of diabetes. A 22 percent lower risk of diabetes was found for those whose intake was highest compared to those whose consumption of the mineral was lowest. Each 100 milligram per day increase in magnesium was associated with a 14 percent lower risk of developing the disease.

Further analysis revealed a more pronounced effect for the mineral among those whose body mass index was more than 25 kg/m2. "It is plausible that high magnesium intake may have greater effects on improving insulin sensitivity in overweight individuals who are prone to insulin resistance,"

http://goo.gl/rpytn

Evelyn aka CarbSane · Answer 9 · 2011-08-22 23:38:57Z UTC

0

Mg rocks! But did deficiency cause the condition or is it yet another symptom? Does IR cause obesity or the other way around? Any curious takers here?

answered Aug 22 2011 at 23:38

Evelyn aka CarbSane
7,916●8●31

	Ask this as a new question, and you will probably get more takers – The Loon Aug 23 2011 at 16:45
	IR causes obesity, at least in subset of people. Check out for instance this paper: jci.org/articles/view/10842/version/1 – majkinetor Sep 11 2011 at 21:52

Travis Culp · Answer 10 · 2011-08-22 23:46:04Z UTC

0

My vote would be for a magnesium and vitamin C deficiency potentiating the effects of a heavy fructose load.

answered Aug 22 2011 at 23:46

Travis Culp♦
39.8k●1●32●134

	Travis -- Do you put IR solely at the feet of fructose? – Evelyn aka CarbSane Aug 23 2011 at 0:12
	There must be exceptions, but my assumption is that the vast majority of it occurs as a result of hyperuricemia from heavy fructose intake coupled with ascorbate deficiency and a sedentary life (that doesn't restore muscle insulin sensitivity). – Travis Culp♦ Aug 23 2011 at 0:36
	I will say that my stance against fructose has softened a bit and that I doubt now very much that one could get IR from vitamin C-bearing fruits. – Travis Culp♦ Aug 23 2011 at 0:39
	Travis, thanks for the reply. How to explain why so many long term low carbers seem to get more and more glucose intolerant with time? They certainly aren't consuming fructose! – Evelyn aka CarbSane Aug 23 2011 at 13:06
	Enzyme downregulation and microbiota change. It will probably be fixed by gradually introducing carbs. – majkinetor Sep 11 2011 at 21:55

Does magnesium deficiency cause insulin resistance?

10 Answers