Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

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I just came across Denise Minger's article on tooth problems and she mentions that the calcium to phosphorus ratio should be 2:1 in favor of calcium, but mine is currently at a 3 to one in favor of phosphorus. I just don't see how it could be possible to get the ratio she proclaims. Does this seem very unrealistic to many of you? If not, how would I go about fixing my skewed ratio? I don't want any bone problems in the future.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/01/27/dental-drama-tooth-problems-on-the-raw-diet-part-2/#more-69

flag	asked Aug 22 2011 at 23:38 ROB 3,362●8●30

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This was a line of thought I clung to from my raw vegan days -- I no longer think it's valid. It looks like vitamins A/K2/D play a much bigger role so long as calcium intake is sufficient (which isn't hard, since the requirements are pretty low if your diet isn't full of grains). I actually thought I'd taken that post down! – Denise Minger Aug 23 2011 at 0:44

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Thanks a lot for clarifying Denise, you had me worried there for a second. – ROB Aug 23 2011 at 1:24

Ron Brown Ph.D. · Answer 1 · 2012-02-13 18:40:05Z UTC

True, dairy has a good calcium-phosphorus ratio of about 1.3/1, but the problem with dairy is that cow milk is so high in absolute amounts of phosphorus. When your phosphorus intake gets too high, say over 1000-1200 mg or so, it produces a toxic effect inspite of the calcium in dairy. The DRI for phosphorus for an adult is 700 mg. Three 8-oz. servings of milk is about that amount. Add up all of the rest of the phosphorus from your diet along with dairy, and you can see that dairy can cause a problem. Green vegetables like kale and collards, on the other hand, have a calcium-phosphorus ratio between 2-14/1! Dairy can't come close to that! By the way, human breast milk has over 2/1 ratio. When infants are fed too much cow milk, the high absolute amount of phosphorus causes tetany...muscle cramping. Also, the calcium in greens has twice the bioavailability in humans as the calcium in pasteurized cow milk. Dark leafy greens twice a day (in a green smoothie and a big salad) are essential to build and maintain bones, blood, and overall health.

Ron Brown PhD · Answer 2 · 2011-12-16 19:27:53Z UTC

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I disagree. Excess phosphorus in a diet with a low calcium-phosphorus ratio (less than 1:1) is associated with hyperphosphatemia, secondary hyperparathyroidism, and bone loss, regardless how much calcium, vitamins D, A, K2, is in the diet. Since the intestines absorb phosphorus more than twice as efficiently as calcium, a higher calcium-phosphorus ratio is desirable in the diet (1.5:1, 1.7:1, and 2:1, which has been found optimal for bone formation in many animal studies). By the way, the best food sources of K2 just happen to be green vegetables with a high calcium-phosphorus ratio!

edited Dec 16 2011 at 19:27

answered Dec 16 2011 at 19:16

Ron Brown PhD
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I thought there was no k2 in vegetables? – Korion Dec 16 2011 at 19:43

Korion's right; vegetables are not a source of K2. – Phoenix Dec 16 2011 at 20:00

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That's quite a first impression you made there Ron.!As my high school Latin teacher used to say, Ph.D+ piled higher and deeper. Good luck next times. And welcome to Paleo Hacks. – shah78 Dec 16 2011 at 22:05

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I want to challenge you on your assertion that K2 is to be had in green veggies. Not true. It is K1 in green veeggies. K2 is QUITE different and has a totally different effect in the body - (mk-4) can be had in grassfed liver, animal fat including dairy and (mk-7) is from natto or fermented soybeans. K1 works on clotting factors and can mess with warfarin and such and k2 can HELP overcome those side effects as well as calcify bones and decalcify soft tissue. The best sources of K2 are goose liver, natto, cheeses, egg yolk, and grassfed butter. – none Apr 10 2012 at 0:51

Ron Brown Ph.D. · Answer 3 · 2012-01-18 14:42:49Z UTC

Shah78 said, "That's quite a first impression you made there Ron.!As my high school Latin teacher used to say, Ph.D+ piled higher and deeper."

A friend of mine had another way of describing a Ph.D.; as you gain more knowledge within a more narrow field, you soon reach the point of knowing everything about nothing!

The take home message is: eat plenty of dark leafy greens to maintain a proper calcium:phosphorus ratio. And control your flesh, grain, dairy, and nut intake as those foods usually have a very low calcium:phosphorus ratio. Also, the primary source of most vitamins found in animal-based foods is from plants. The animals we rely on for food usually don't eat other animals...they eat plants for their nutrients. So should you.

Anne · Answer 4 · 2012-06-05 14:24:15Z UTC

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K is the symbol for potassium. The symbol for phosphorus is P. They are two different minerals.

answered Jun 5 at 14:24

Anne
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How important is the calcium to phosphorus ratio?

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