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Hi,

My best friend weighs 308 lbs. She has been overweight/ obese for almost 20 years and hasn't exercised since she left high school in 2001.

I have introduced her to Paleo and have ordered Robb Wolf's book for her to read. This week, she will have her first appointment with a Crossfit personal trainer.

I know weight loss is 80% - 90% diet, so I'm focusing on her diet at present. As with many obese people, she has poor self-control to the point of addiction when it comes to her choice of food and portions.

I've read Robb Wolf's book and have been advising her based on that.

She has been complaining of headaches, feeling hungry, lousy and tired ever since she's cut out non-Paleo food. She is craving something sweet as well (I've advised against eating fruits for now as well). She is used to eating rice, bread and dairy products on a daily basis. This is a girl who enjoys cheesy, creamy pastas, pizzas, burgers and fried chicken.

What can she do to remedy this?

I want her to feel positive about all these changes she's making but it's hard when she feels like crap physically :(

How much meat, veggie and good fat should a person of her size be eating so she feels full? What am I advising wrong? What should she do? Btw, seafood causes her eczema.

Thanks guys.

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Good for you for wanting to help your friend. I had a hard time giving up pasta and bread, too; they were my faves. I substituted baked brussels sprouts with cream and bacon (although I no longer eat that since going ZC), and I still eat roast chicken every week -- my husband eats most of the meat, and I eat all the crispy skin. My guess is if she eats enough fat -- which she shouldn't be afraid of -- she'll feel better. I'd shoot for between 70-80% of cals from fat; a high number, yes, but it'll promote satiety and general good health. – Rose Sep 5 2011 at 0:50
We've been best friends since 1999 but back then, we never took our health seriously. I moved overseas and she's gotten fatter with time. Now I worry about her health; it's no longer just about looking hot! Is crispy chicken skin good for you? I understand it contains Omega 6 fatty acids? – Shan Sep 5 2011 at 1:12
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It does, but some O6 is necessary; it's not all evil, lol. It's the sheer amount in industrial food that's toxic. If she's giving up vegetable oils and other crap, the chicken won't hurt her. At least, IMHO. Others might chime in with more caution. (And I also think reducing her weight is a priority over getting every ratio exactly right, but that's just me...) – Rose Sep 5 2011 at 1:53
I believe the O6 in fat isn't an issue if you get pastured chickens. Can someone verify? – Glither Sep 5 2011 at 5:22
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Can't verify but I think chicken fat is generally higher than most animal fats in omega six, whether it's pastured or not. Surely a lot of corn and soy will raise it further but I think even pastured ones have a good deal. – ben61820 Sep 5 2011 at 18:03

13 Answers

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As a formerly obese person myself, my recommendation is that she needs to take this slower if you want her to stick to it. New food + Crossfit at the same time may really be too much, especially if she has an eating disordered past.

When I made this really work, I got my food portion right for about a month before I jumped into exercise. Also, you may want to go 80/20 Paleo with her and allow some non-Paleo foods. Or maybe make some Paleo friendly things like almond butter brownies and macadamia nut cookies, Paleo pancakes, touches of what she's used to.

The other option is to cut everything completely out for 30 days, like a whole 30.

You really need to have a heart to heart with her regarding what SHE thinks will work for her best. Some people need to ease into a lifestyle change to make it stick and some people will take allowances like 80/20 and stretch them too far and end up not fixing anything at all.

Do not be judgemental. Deciding to make the change is a huge step. It can change your whole life. If you have been making excuses for other parts of your life based on being fat, it is very scary to decide to change that. Once your fat is gone, you have to figure out the other things. Losing weight can be extremely mental. You have to be ready for that. Going slow really helped me mentally keep up with the weight loss.

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I especially agree about the exercise in the beginning. And Crossfit, no less. When I was obese, I exercised because I had always exercised, but it felt rotten. When I finally dialed my diet in, I stopped formal exercise completely, and the weight came off just fine. Once she's closer to a more comfortable body size, she can pick whatever exercise she wants to do, whether it be Crossfit, running, or (why not?) ballroom dancing. – Rose Sep 5 2011 at 0:37
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Melissa knows what's the haps on significant long term weight loss and maintenance. – familygrokumentarian Sep 5 2011 at 0:51
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Yeah, the more I think about this, I was so mortified to go into the gym at first. I was sure everyone would be watching the ~fat chick~. I learned better, the more I got involved, but initially, it was really hard. Even once I lost weight, I still hard a hard time dealing with mirrors and group classes. I had to really push myself to do each of these things. Long walks or bike rides or honestly, WHATEVER SHE WANTS TO DO, will most likely be easier to start. – sherpamelissa Sep 5 2011 at 0:51
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Interesting puzzle! Years ago I used to go to a segregated gym; men and women worked out in different halves. I really loved it; not because I ever found that men were mean (in fact, I'd say women can be meaner to fatties than men, at least to our faces), but because the women themselves were different, and acted differently, without men around. I wonder if there's a pool or a gym near her that does that? – Rose Sep 5 2011 at 2:14
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I'd like to suggest swimming as it may help with the ankle issue AND many Muslim women (I'm not sure if your friend is Muslim) wear what's called a "burqini" which allows them to keep covered up while swimming. What you are doing for your friend is wonderful, but be mindful not to get TOO involved to the point of getting upset when she has setbacks - your personality may not be like mine, but I get very involved when trying to help people and sometimes it backfires on me. – sallycinnamon Sep 5 2011 at 5:40
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I'm new here, but I would say as someone who experienced hellish low-carb flu, explain it to her and why ultimately it's a good thing --even if you have to describe it as a "detox". My N=1 was that I felt so much better after getting off the grains alone after a couple of weeks, I was ready to pay attention to the rest of "it" (primal/paleo/whatever). And perhaps provide her w/ the links to all the discussions here about low-carb flu so she knows she's not alone. That helped me tremendously.

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I'm fat too. I've lost 35 pounds though in the last 3 months and feel fantastic. At the beginning of summer I cut out all white food - rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, sugar. The first couple of days were HARD. Then I felt better and realized that carbs are addicting. If I cheated, I'd cheat for a couple of days. I would have to fast to break the carb-cycle. THEN I discovered Paleo. I way upped my meat and fat - WAY. I looked into Cross-Fit, but since I knew I couldn't even do one of the assessment skills, I passed. I found a knock-off of P90X called Supreme 90 Day (something or other) on Amazon. I have done it for 2 months and can do a push up! I have muscles! Doing cardio - the exercise all fat people are told they need to do - is hard on fat people, and we give up. Lifting weights and squatting is easy - we keep it up.

I think the exercise helped me to feel better thus making the "diet" easier. I would suggest that she does do both, but not Cross-Fit right away. My goal is join Cross-Fit by Christmas.

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+1 and Congratulations! Good for you for putting together what works "for you!* – Atkins-witha-loincloth Sep 5 2011 at 2:13
+1 You're right -- cardio sucks if you're bigger. Weight lifting is the key! – bettyrocker Sep 5 2011 at 2:25
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Cardio sucks for everyone, lifting weights is great! – Ryan H Sep 5 2011 at 17:15
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Excellent! I'm a big fan of baby steps too. I think people who accept this as a true journey seem to do very well. Each step reveals more and we can look back and see how the path unfolded for us. – Shari Bambino Sep 5 2011 at 17:20
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I have to say, I started with cardio and it worked for me for the first 2 years. I started out on the recumbent bike at the gym, because I knew how to work it and I was comfortable for me. From there I watched the people on the treadmills and other equipment until I thought I was comfortable enough to give them a try. THE BEST EXERCISE IS WHAT YOU ARE WILLING TO DO. – sherpamelissa Sep 5 2011 at 18:19
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My first question would be how long has she been doing paleo? Even if it isn't a low carb form of Paleo most people switching from sad to paleo get the typical LC response to the transition. The headaches, tiredness, and crappy feeling will last for the first 1-3 weeks before the body really transitions from burning carbohydrates to burning fat. It's two different metabolic processes and takes the body some time to figure out what's going on.

The best thing to do is just stick it out... That's why the Whole9's Whole30 challenge is a good program. It forces people to stick it out past the low carb slump that usually comes with the switch.

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As another reference heres another post with more detail about keto-adaptation. (the transition of the body to burning fat for fuel) paleohacks.com/questions/41994/… – Hurricane Sep 5 2011 at 0:14
Hi Hurricane, she's been doing it for less than a week! I'm telling her to go on but I need to explain why she's feeling so crappy. I also needed to consider the possibility that my advice was wrong. Maybe she needs a bigger portion to a regular person? I've shown her the Whole9 website. – Shan Sep 5 2011 at 1:10
If I had to guess, she's feeling crappy because she's not eating enough carbs and she hasn't adapted to that. I prefer moderate carb to avoid the low-carb flu and to provide more flexibility in the diet. But if she feels LC is the way to go, the feeling crappy part should be over sometime during the second week. – Beth-WeightMaven Sep 5 2011 at 2:20
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@Shan, It's good that you care but honestly the portion size is only responsible up to a certain point. As Rob Wolf has said, it's the quaility of what goes in, not the amount. As long as she's eating quality foods she should be eating until she's full. Meat and veggies will satiate you much longer than any carbs ever could. And I also agree with sherpamelissa on the 80/20 it can be hard to give up everything, try taking her out for a cheat meal once a week, let her know it's not about always eating healthy. But improving the quality of life... Best of luck to you and your friend. :) – Hurricane Sep 5 2011 at 2:29
(continued) and the more paleo most people eat, those cheat meals show them how quickly they develop a distaste for SAD foods. I know I wouldn't be as paleo if I hadn't tried the chocolate cake a few times after going paleo and gotten sick and hated the taste. – Hurricane Sep 5 2011 at 2:30
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Have you heard of AndreAnna's Life as a Plate blog? She was once morbidly obese - was once near 300 lb. - and now she is a fit and fierce Crossfitter who is all kinds of toned. Here are a few links from her inspiring story that you may consider sharing with your friend.

Most importantly, since your friend is still in the awful transition off of processed carbs, have her read AndreAnna's post about her own experience (it had me laughing because I could identify!): http://www.lifeasaplate.com/2010/10/13/the-plunge/

Her Crossfit Posts: http://www.lifeasaplate.com/category/healthfitness/crossfit/

Her Weight Loss Posts: http://www.lifeasaplate.com/category/healthfitness/weightloss/

Her before: alt text

And her recently at a Warrior Dash (she's #56213): alt text

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Hi there! Thanks for the links, it would definitely help motivate her. I always tell her, if hundreds of obese people can make the transformation, why not you too? – Shan Sep 5 2011 at 1:10
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I would say she should just eat as much or as little as she wants as long as it's paleo for now (except for fruit.) Also...for the transition...try some salty broths or just supplementing salt literally by eating it.

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What do you mean by supplementing salt literally by eating it? – Shan Sep 6 2011 at 2:24
i mean...putting some salt on a spoon and eating...Morton's Lite is the best since it's iodine and potassium enhanced. It's kind of gross though to just eat it. – BaconHealsChic Sep 6 2011 at 3:30
Haha, or she can just season her food- I would be a bit turned off if someone told my to eat salt off a spoon. Would rather sprinkle it on meat/veg! – JeJ Jun 8 at 16:40
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Don't laugh. Eating packets of salt saved my butt. I had the worst carb-flu ever and it lasted 5 weeks. At that point I thought I was going to die. I had severe edema and felt really weak. Didn't feel better until one day I spontaneously poured salt packets into my hand and licked them off. – Diane Jun 8 at 18:36
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I second (or third?) the recommendation to have her avoid Cross-fit for now. Make sure she's getting good sources of healthy fats (pastured butter, pastured eggs, preferably grass-fed liver) ... and not trying to do this low-fat because that's been drummed into her head for years.

And have her check out paleo hacks ... let her know that there are other women who are or have been where she is (I've lost 100 lbs with more to go). It's not just for hard bodies ;).

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When I am trying to convince obese people to try this diet, I always point out the main selling point that appeals to those who love food: You never have to be hungry or count calories.

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Well maybe for some people, but for other people, keeping track of and limiting calories is something they have to do to reach and maintain a healthy weight, especially if they were previously very obese. – Olivia Sep 5 2011 at 0:51
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Oh yes you definitely have to count after you get a certain point but initially you probably don't need to. – vdh1979 Sep 5 2011 at 14:26
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If she needs to eat a little fruit to stay motivated, it is better than feeling like she can't stick with Paleo. Eventually she will reduce her carb cravings anyway. Too extreem and she could feel discouraged and never try it again.

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when i first cut grains i was making almond crackers every day for about 3 weeks. i haven't made them since. change can happen with small steps.

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I agree, I made a lot of substitute foods to start! Then, I just didn't need them as much anymore. – sherpamelissa Sep 5 2011 at 13:09
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I guess Im probably not doing it right but I didn't feel good on paleo until I started adding potatoes (about 4 small/ med per week) to my diet.

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On the contrary, you're doing it exactly right. Ketosis is a panic mechanism used during starvation to keep the brain and red blood cells going. Simulating it is highly stressful at best. – Travis Culp Sep 5 2011 at 5:15
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Don't carbohydrates come in other forms, such as vegetables (which also offer many nutrients)? So it's not necessarily no-carb diet, but a low-carb one. – Shan Sep 5 2011 at 5:22
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Okay, Travis, you know I've got to call you on that. There's just not much evidence at all that ketosis is stressful. Especially seeing as how we go ketotic every night, unless we sleepeat. Chronic ketosis might not be necessary for everyone, but it's not especially stressful. See this thread: paleohacks.com/questions/25449/… – Rose Sep 5 2011 at 5:23
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Eazine, you aren't doing it wrong. You found what works for you! If your goal is losing weight and you are still losing while eating potatoes, that's awesome! – sherpamelissa Sep 5 2011 at 13:09
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If ketosis is stressful it means cortisol is high. But cortisol inhibits fat burning, and ketosis is the direct result of burning fat. – Mr. Trashcan Sep 5 2011 at 14:02
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Going cold turkey isn't the only way. For some people it works best, and most people probably see more results faster (which can be very motivating for some people), but if it's too difficult to stick to it isn't a help, and there's a tendency to throw everything out the window and go back to total SAD.

"You" refers to whoever is making the dietary changes, not the OP specifically, since the OP is not asking for him/herself. These suggestions are based on my own experiences, as well as watching friends try to go paleo and get overwhelmed.

A gradual approach can be a much easier adjustment psychologically.

As more foods are eliminated, be sure adequate fat is included to encourage satiety.

Step 1: If necessary, learn to cook, and prepare more meals at home. Switch to paleo-appropriate oils when cooking at home. Integrate higher quality animal products and produce to the greatest extent that budget allows. Focus on low glycemic index fruits and veggies, but integrating some sort of real produce with each meal is a positive step if it isn't happening already. Use grains and legumes that have been properly prepared (soaking and so forth) WAPF style for all homecooked meals. These steps should be pretty painless emotionally - you're not eliminating anything, just laying a foundation for future changes.

Step 2: Eliminate gluten. Preferably don't use gluten-free replacements (especially processed) unless they're paleo.

Step 3: Eat meals at least several times a week that don't include grains, legumes, and/or dairy. Not all of them, but enough to psychologically adjust to the idea of meals without these things. Use only high-quality, full-fat, preferably fermented dairy products, and experiment with using non-dairy milks for some purposes.

Step 4: Eliminate grains and legumes.

Step 5: Eliminate processed sugar. Don't replace them with large amounts of other sweetener, whether natural or artificial.

Step 6: Go low carb if not seeing adequate results from changes thus far.

Step 7: Experiment with eliminating dairy, going strict Whole30, and so forth.

These steps aren't set in stone - they should be adjusted according to what the individual in question finds easiest to eliminate. If cutting dairy is easy for the person, then that's a good earlier step. If keeping dairy in the diet helps with compliance to the rest of the diet, keep it in until other addictions are dealt with.

Alternatively, do this backwards. Go strict paleo, then add stuff back in as needed until you reach a point where you feel you can handle it rather than going back to complete SAD. Then work towards gradual elimination of those crutches.

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Did you read the question, Jess? The OP isn't obese, it's her friend that lives 3000 miles away from her. These are good suggestions, but don't answer this question properly at all. – sherpamelissa Sep 5 2011 at 16:49
Yes, I should have specified that I meant "you" in the general sense, not the OP specifically. Lazy writing. I suppose I can go back and edit if it causes offense. – jess6 Sep 5 2011 at 17:09
I agree that for some a gradual progression is best. Strict paleo can be completely overwhelming for someone coming right off SAD. I would add though that fruit should pretty much be stricken from the diet in this situation and an attempt to go as low carb as comfortable is probably best to yield weight loss that will continue to motivate. – Shari Bambino Sep 5 2011 at 17:15
It's not offensive, jess, it just really didn't properly answer the OPs question as far as I was concerned. There are so many more issues when you are dealing with helping someone else besides just how to handle the food. – sherpamelissa Sep 5 2011 at 17:27
I'm afraid I'm not understanding. This isn't intended to be the One True Complete Solution, simply some approaches that might help if "add potatoes to deal with low carb flu" isn't adequate to overcome ingrained habits, preferences, and addictions, as I've observed this being a stumbling block for several friends of mine trying to make major dietary changes without strong local support. – jess6 Sep 5 2011 at 18:12
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A very close family member has recently decided to follow this diet as well (and she's in almost the same boat as your friend).

To fight off the carb headaches, she would eat 1/2 an orange. This would help her over that hump without killing her progress.

She's 2 weeks in now, sans 16lbs of water and some fat weight, with no headaches, and surprisingly no severe "bad food" cravings.

I built a very custom template for her, the gist of which was to put her on a diet of whole, non-starchy foods, give her an overhead of about 200-calories over her BMR, and avoid "trigger foods" - foods that potentially motivate binges.

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You read my mind, Joshua. This thread reminded me of the one you posted about helping a friend and I was wondering how she's doing. Sounds like a good start! How's she feeling? 16 pounds is a GREAT beginning, even if some of it was water. – Amy B. Jun 8 at 19:04
She had carb flu longer than I expected, but once it subsided, good things started happening. – Joshua Jun 8 at 19:48

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