Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

3

Ok I have done a search - and still don't have any answers just wondering if anyone with the same problem has had any results yet??

I went Paleo low carb 18 months ago - lost about 10kg ( I would that that was mostly inflammation caused by high grain diet encouraged by the diet industry - that probably sent me into insulin resistance ) 42 female PCOS in IR

After about 5 wks I lost no more weight - continued no grain but after a few months higher carb veg entered diet - avocado / sweet potato / carrots and cauliflower - some alcohol but only a few glasses on the weekend.

Now for the last month I have gone back to less that 20 gms of carbs only green veg and meat 4% carbs / 45% protien and 51% fat but under less than 1000 cal per day

I do a lot of incidental lifting and exercise ( my job at the moment ) - but I also do some structured walking and weights 3 - 4 times a wk

Not one KG lost in the last month - not one CM dropped from my measurements - I eat between 600 - 1000 cal a day so everyone who truly believes that calorie in vrs out is just WRONG.

I need to lose about 30 more KG ( I will take 20 !)

Leptin is 32 Vit D even though in the sun each day - is under the normal range ( so now supplement)

I have in the past tied higher fat = did not work I did take 6 months off work and went to the gym 3 hrs a day - I was really fit but did not really lose any weight gained muscle though!

I am in Ketosis ( 4+) and always in it - measure in the morning on first wee because heavy exercise will throw ketones off and sque the result.

I make sure I eat no more than 10gms of protein at a time spread my intake out over the day - average about 60 - 70gms a day ( more than 10gms of protein at a time will cause insulin spike )

I have tried fasting - 12 and 24 hr - for quite a while - but no effect.

I am seeing a naturopath - early days - there is obviously something wrong - I have fat on my tum as well as my hips which indicates both oestrogen and insulin issues.

Looking for some hope anyone ????

flag	asked Oct 4 2011 at 4:19 Vivalapaleo 1,404●4●7

	IMO keto is not the answer for your problems. also, neither is adding 3-4 workouts on top an active job...really do you expect your body to magically stop freaking out at practically no food, high fat which is debatable...as seen here, it is OBVIOUSLY not working. wat are you current stats, you need more protein instead of focring ketosis which doesnt mean anything besides your using the fat you eat for energy. stop measuring ketosis first, thats bunk, eat more protein, take more rest, sleep more – Mallory Dec 14 2011 at 2:01
	I am sure you are aware that PCOS affects your weight gain and your ability to lose weight. How is your naturopath working with this? WHat is your naturopath advising? womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/… – Atkins-witha-loincloth Dec 14 2011 at 2:29

sage_ · Answer 1 · 2011-10-04 04:32:33Z UTC

6

my first thought is that you are too calorie restricted.

second thought is that you are eating 6-7 times a day to keep your protein intake at 10 grams a meal; correct?

you may want to try adjusting both of these. an insulin spike once a day has to be better than a slow stream of it all day. try that for 2 weeks and if nothing changes try adding in a higher calorie day once every four days; say 1600 calories. after a couple of weeks if you see no change try just eating more each day; say 1200 calories.

everyone is different and you have to find what works for you.

answered Oct 4 2011 at 4:32

sage_
10.4k●1●5●22

	I have done different calorie intakes - 1200 /1500/ 1600 and 2000 no weight gain but no loss - its the grain that makes me gain weight and I have not had that in 18 months - just no weight loss. If you keep your protein to 10 or under you should not evoke insulin - have done larger meals 2 x day and that did not work either - thanks anyway – Vivalapaleo Oct 4 2011 at 7:35
	have you measured the difference in blood sugar after eating 10g of protein? i have read that 10g yields 5.6g of glucose; i have no idea how that effects blood sugar. but my thought is that by grazing you may not create a big enough window for glucagon to begin secreting to burn fat. the constant presence if insulin might be inhibiting glucagon all day. – sage_ Oct 4 2011 at 13:55
	Blood glucose is not a measure of insulin - related but no measure If there is an excess of amino acids in the muscle cells, the surplus amino acids enter the pathway of energy production ( turn into glucose ) Lots of studies on this - thats one of the reasons they recommend I gm protein per 1kg lean body weight. – Vivalapaleo Oct 4 2011 at 21:04

Kelly · Answer 2 · 2011-10-04 13:54:05Z UTC

My question for you is, how long do you give 'changes' you've made to your diet to take effect before ruling them unsuccessful? I see you've been doing paleo for a quite a while, but how much time for changes to take effect?

I also agree too few calories. I would suggest to you to try 1500 calories, go back to higher fat (about 60%) keep carbs under 50g per day and the rest proteins. Eat at least 2 meals a day and have a snack in between if needed. If hungry, add more fat! TRACK TRACK TRACK your calories and %'s until you are loosing weight; I know some people will disagree but its the only way to really hone in on things.

I would do that for at least a month, then start tweaking the numbers. Give it 2 fulls weeks for one change to see whats happening...and go from there.

I had to do this after the first 2 months when I stopped loosing weight. It literally took me a couple more months to figure out what worked for me and then it just started melting off. Being in ketosis helped and adding in IFing only after I found the right formula....you don't want to starve yourself or deprive yourself so take it slowly and methodically to find out what will work best for you.

I would eliminate all starchy carbs (potatoes, carrots), no fruit and no alcohol until you start losing again. And then would only add in once a week to start playing with your metabolism.

If you are working with a professional and still not seeing results, there might be other underlying issues going on, perhaps a good idea to start checking other things as well.

best of luck to you!!!

JASmith · Answer 3 · 2011-12-14 00:55:35Z UTC

I have both thyroid/adrenal/and estrogen dominance issues which I am treating with compounded T3/T4 and Isocort ( I have very low cortisol) and natural herbs to stimulate my fertility. The only way I have ever been able to lose weight is with a PSMF- so low carb (less than 25g) low fat and high protein. Sorry but 60-70g is not high protein and worrying about insulin spikes from protein is doing more harm than the spike (which someone addressed as inconsequential) itself. I eat 130-140g a day in order to keep my body happy- if i drop below this and replace it with fat i gain weight (fat) regardless of carb intake. I am full paleo for 18 mos as well. And due to adrenal issues I can't IF and I have to eat every 4-5 hours regardless of hunger to regulate cortisol at this point in time. I did the leptin reset exactly as stated and gained fat- my body simply cannot process that much fat especially saturated animal fats unfortunately. I have learned the very hard ncomfortable way. Also nuts cause weight gain as well. Just some things to consider.

Vivalapaleo · Answer 4 · 2011-10-04 21:22:29Z UTC

I should qualify my question again - I am not looking for you to hack my diet - I have really done it all - and I am not being snotty - I have given it a good go each change I make I give it 3 good months - I record and analyse research and act - Paleo for 18 months but really working hard to lose this weight since my last son was born 7 years ago - before I had kids I was a fit healthy size 8.

So I am not plonking in after dieting for 2 wks and asking for help - I am hard core serious!

Its been an interesting journey - to prove that calorie in does not equal cal out - the whole thing is interesting !

My question is not to hack my diet but - hack reasons why I am not losing weight. I have read posts here where people have done Paleo - done it well and still not lost weight - I am sure there are more than a few of you out there ( esp women ) who have done all the right diet things and not lost weight.

What I am looking for is all the weight loss resistant people who found another problem - like Thyroid / Excess hormones / IR ect what was your problem and what did you do to fix it??

Travis Culp · Answer 5 · 2011-10-04 21:57:40Z UTC

It's misguided to avoid protein due to the insulin spike since there is a concomitant glucagon spike that cancels it out for the most part. If anything, you should be eating a big (trimmed) steak as often as you are hungry.

A lot of people will tell you to eat more calories, but the number of calories that we carry around as fat is massive, and it's there for that very reason. It's simply a matter of fuel selection. If you keep your calories where they are now, but shift some fat calories over to protein, you'll be much better off.

It seems like you've tried everything, but I'm guessing you haven't tried a large volume of lean red meat. Give it a go, you'll like the results.

Also, it sounds like your job requires a fair amount of activity, but increasing activity during your off hours would speed up the process.

garymar · Answer 6 · 2011-10-04 22:57:30Z UTC

Hi NewtoPaleo! If you've been at it for 18 months, I don't think you're new to paleo!

Have you read any of Jack Kruse's stuff here ("The Quilt") or at his blog ? He thinks that if you're leptin resistant you shouldn't IF but first get the leptin sensitivity back by using his protocol for 6-8 weeks -- the Leptin Reset. For some people it may take even longer than 8 weeks. It involves eating a huge protein breakfast every day, even if you have to force yourself. Intense exercise is also verboten.

But from what I've read at his Leptin thread at Mark's Daily Apple, a lot of women don't lose weight during the Reset at all. That comes later.

score 1 · Answer 7 · 2011-10-04 08:19:08Z UTC

1

As mentioned by sage_, you are too calorie restricted. 1500 cal/day is already considered starvation and u are lower.

First, we need to rule out most common cause - malnutrition.

Take L-Carnitine, B Complex, Choline, Fish oil, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Mg, Policosanol, EGCG, CoQ10,

Drink white tea, eat fresh onions, chile peppers, use cinnamon. Do not drink beer, do not eat fruit [more then few times a week].

Limit or avoid industrial food.

Doses should be far greater then RDA, see supplementation threads here.

If this doesn't improve your condition, you need to check your estrogen level. If you have to much of it, you need to take extra Zinc and Vitamin E and perhaps some plant estrogens, like from black wine.

edited Oct 4 2011 at 8:19

answered Oct 4 2011 at 6:52

majkinetor

3

ludicrous. 1500 cal is not starvation at all for a lot of women, in fact it used to be the average daily caloric intake for American females a few decades ago. also no evidence from her post that she's suffering from malnutrition, and no evidence anywhere that it's "the most common cause" of lack of weight loss; that's ridiculous. – Olivia Oct 4 2011 at 7:00

Ok you need to read my post again - I eat meat ( I add fish here for the sake of it ) and green veg - only - no fruit no crap - all clean - done high calorie - did not work so this month (under guidance of Naturopath who himself has 20 years experience with Keto diet) we are trying to get to the bottom if it but I was wondering if anyone else tried all the usual things here and found a reason why they did not work - I suppose I am looking for a fast track - 7 long years to lose the weight and its going no where! – Vivalapaleo Oct 4 2011 at 7:41

Sorry, I didn't see 10g of protein per meal. I thought 10g per day. Was reading on the phone.... – majkinetor Oct 4 2011 at 8:12

Olivia, 1500 cal is so called semi-starvation. No evidence of malnutrition ? With less then 1000 cal per day ? R u serious ? All your claims are ridiculous. – majkinetor Oct 4 2011 at 8:13

Very low calorie diet ~800 cal, requires supplementation. Its even on wiki ffs. – majkinetor Oct 4 2011 at 8:18

show 4 more comments

Sara S. · Answer 8 · 2011-12-14 02:11:55Z UTC

I've read that inflammation can prevent fat-loss. (That's a super general statement... I can try to dig up links if people are interested.) So omega-6 to omega-3 ratio is important, as are other things that could cause a problem, such as trace amounts of gluten if you're senstiive to gluten, or continued exposure to allergens (in food or otherwise).

Have you tried Robb Wolf's autoimmune protocol: no dairy, nightshades, eggs, or nuts in addition to the standard no grains or legumes.

Wonky cortisol levels (either flatlined and low, or inverted expression of too low in the morning and too high at night) can also prevent fat-loss, from what I've read. Cortisol can be messed up from too much stress in your life, not enough sleep, too much gluconeogenesis (which isn't an issue in your case since you're not eating high protein), and too much/too intense exercise.

I've also read that some women weren't losing weight due to hormone imbalances, and I've seen the term "estrogen-dominance" get kicked around a lot, with a recommendation for diindolylmethane (DIM) and calcium d-glucarate. So hopefully that helps in your search.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you what has worked for me. I lost 10 lbs the first month of primal/paleo and haven't lost anything in the remaining 4 months. But, my calories are a bit high, I'm still working out some kinks in my diet to remove traces of gluten, I haven't been exercising as much as I want to, and my focus right now is healing and listening to what my body wants, not losing weight. I figure that can come later. It has only been 5 months for me, after all.

Good luck with your search. I'd love to see a followup if you find something that works for you.

turkeytyme · Answer 9 · 2011-10-04 11:13:33Z UTC

I just have to echo what the others are saying. You are too calorie restricted and you shouldn't be fasting right now. Everything you are doing is telling your body that food is scarce and your body is reacting to protect itself by conserving every bit of energy that it can. Eat more. I know it goes against everything we have ever been told about weight loss, but it will work. To know how much to eat, eat when you are hungry and eat until satiety. Forget calorie restriction.

Hack my weight loss - or lack there of!

9 Answers