Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

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“...one of my mantras -- Focus and Simplicity. Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it’s worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains.” - Steve Jobs. RIP

Some of you know that I have been on a Low Reward lifestyle experiment with Kamal, also known as Kumar and Kumar Escape From Rewardtanamo Bay. This has included abstinence from Paleohacking. With very few exceptions, I have not been around here since August 15th. That is quite remarkable based on my previous involvement several months preceding the experiment -

http://paleohacks.com/questions/53438/you-know-you-are-a-paleohacks-addict-when#axzz1ZxSsZd2u :)

Forget about all the bullshit and banter about biochemistry that is consuming the various blogs/forums for just one moment please.

Low Reward concepts, diet and otherwise, have taught Kamal and me many things. We are going to be writing about this soon for Stephan Guyenet to post on his site. I won't get into all the details, but the short version is that I have lost 10 lbs in 6 weeks on a fairly high carb, low reward diet that is completely sustainable. Note I was weight stable for 6-7 months prior to the experiment and with very few exceptions, only lowered the reward of my diet while keeping the components/staples unchanged. So 10 lbs is a pretty substantial move for me, particularly since I lost the "easy" pounds earlier in the year. Moreover, my decade+ addiction to diet soda (3 liters per day, no joke) has been overcome and I am now at the lowest weight since my early 20s.

Kamal has kicked some serious ass, even more so than me because of his hard core implementation (at least with respect to diet). Good job co-founding member of Rewardaholics Anonymous!

Much more so than the weight loss has been the radical transformation with respect to the role of food and nutrition research in my life. For the first time ever, food is simply fuel. I cannot overstate the significance of this mindset shift, which even after transitioning to my (perverted) Lacto-Ovo Veggie implementation of Paleo was not experienced in spite of many health improvements including weight loss. Food was entertainment. I used to intellectually understand that food was fuel, but now I am experiencing it. Cool!

[EDIT - I am not saying that I no longer like highly rewarding food or have completely lost the desire for it. Anyone that says ice cream or bread is unrewarding is likely a liar.]

But more than that, I have come to realize that incessant hacking and constant searches for the holy grail of nutrition actually compromised my health objectives. Orthorexia is real. Knowledge may be power, but power also corrupts. Is there anything that is going to likely change the following basic tenets

Avoid gluten grains
Avoid excess Omega-6 vis-a-vis vegetable oils
Avoid excess fructose
Eat real, whole foods prepared simply with adequate micronutrients
Get adequate sleep
Move around and stay active
Get laid, preferably with someone else participating
Chillax

Everything else is in the weeds.

So what's the point of this....Low Reward has taught me that focus and simplicity in all aspects of life tends to lead to positive outcomes. The more you get into the weeds, the greater the possibility of diminishing, if not negative returns on your investment. Isn't one of the goals to just live a peaceful and healthy life with as little effort as possible?

BTW - I am not directing this at people with significant metabolic derangements and life threatening illnesses. Diving into the weeds may be necessary to save your life. I get that.

Oh yeah, I need a question in here - What does focus and simplicity mean to you in terms of your Paleo diet and lifestyle?

Ok, I'm outta here. Be well John Spartan

edited Oct 6 2011 at 17:26

none
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asked Oct 6 2011 at 1:47

Aravind
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Nice post Kumar! (now go to bed!) – Kamal♦ Oct 6 2011 at 2:31

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Ok Kumar. I knew I was gonna get in trouble for this. – Aravind Oct 6 2011 at 2:32

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Thanks hubbs. I agree with it all and I am so very guilty for overly complicating this stuff. I have been for years. I need to work on this. – none Oct 6 2011 at 2:57

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Wifey - I was expecting something in return for the "Be well John Spartan" line. Showing you that my movie tastes are diverse and include many B/C grade movies too. Blech! – Aravind Oct 6 2011 at 11:41

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@Aravind - I think you must have been drinking my share of diet coke. Really 3 liters a day?? – Matt Oct 6 2011 at 23:40

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Kamal · Answer 1 · 2011-10-06 02:30:22Z UTC

"All I am saying is that the peace you are seeking is already inside you, in the harmonious functioning of the body" --UG Krishnamurti

Still trying hard to decondition what I've passively "learned" during my lifetime. Thinking about the past and future far more than necessary, feeling above some people and below others, the itch to check email incessantly, hesitating to show warmth or love.

Low reward, carbohydrate hypothesis, blah blah. Who cares? I'm trying to reset my mind, not my leptin. No matter if low-reward eating is a tautology, simplistic, or based on debatable evidence, it is a notable chunk of the effort some need to return to a state where simple and mindful actions comprise the bulk of life. I am (extremely!) sure that my mind is still extremely conditioned to respond to stress in very negative ways. Thus, my ultimate goal is to be able to be calm when it is possible, which is presumably 99% of the time. To get to this, Aravind and I are trying out a return to simple food, mindful thought, and non-habit forming actions. Wish us luck, and we wish you luck!

Matt · Answer 2 · 2011-10-06 15:35:35Z UTC

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What does focus and simplicity mean to you in terms of your Paleo diet and lifestyle?

Us humans generally do quite well when we get everything we need.

However we generally do quite badly when we get what we want.

answered Oct 6 2011 at 15:35

Matt
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I wouldn't disagree. One of the biggest issues in the US at least is simply abundance. If you can deal with it then fine, surplus is clearly not a problem. But if you have issues knowing how much is appropriate then the sheer presence of all of what's here is indeed a problem – ben61820 Oct 6 2011 at 15:52

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I agree. But we haven't had much time to learn how to choose not to have what we want. Most people in the past didn't have a choice. – Matt Oct 6 2011 at 16:02

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Matt - Simple and to the point. Nice – Aravind Oct 6 2011 at 16:08

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Also, I find it interesting that some people that have an affinity for a Paleo diet take such great exception to the notion that food is fuel. I am not at all about re-enactment, but being epicurious or a foodie is most definitely a neolithic invention. That does not at all make it bad because we are not cavemen, but I do find the strong opposition to the concept very interesting – Aravind Oct 6 2011 at 16:27

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Aravind - It was a good questions :) I have an enjoyable but probably quite low reward diet. I think there is a problem with words, people see the same words in different ways. Food as fuel to me does not imply that the food is tasteless or not enjoyable. – Matt Oct 6 2011 at 16:28

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being · Answer 3 · 2011-10-06 03:05:11Z UTC

let your food be your medicine and your medicine be your food. -hippocrates

yay, aravind! im really proud of you and what you have been able to accomplish. for me, i LOVE food. but i love it in a whole new way than i did a year ago, before i discovered "paleo" or whateverthehellyouwannacallit. i used to love food just because it tasted good, but now i love it because i know its good for me, and its healing to me. i get more of a thrill out of that than anything. i dont think about food in terms of what im craving right now, but rather what i can eat to optimize my health. then, i have fun cooking it. i love the meditation of shopping for lovely seasonable produce, and i love introducing new food to my kids, helping them grow their little bean plants, letting hazel smell all the spices that i put into a dish. theres a new joy to food, prep, and eating. i love feeding the people i love food that is delicious and will also help them be the best they can be, so we can all live together for a very long time. it's amazing to me that my MS has been occupying a very small portion of my brain (literally and figuratively).

i do not have a background in science (i dont think a semester of stats in grad school counts as anything) so i have a hard time following along with the discussions on the blogs sometimes. im also a bit rebellious and contrary (just a wee bit) so when the discussion starts getting heavily into that stuff, i find myself reacting in the opposite direction. i have the desire to learn more about the details, but at the end of the day, i just have to trust that if i eat a diverse diet of traditional, seasonal foods and "try to get the most nutrients in the fewest calories" (a la meredith) then everything else will fall into place. so far that has been true, so thats where im sticking.

there is a lot more i want to work on, particularly in the exercise and meditation area, but overall parsimony is my friend, and im happiest and most fulfilled when i stick by her side.

none · Answer 4 · 2011-10-06 14:53:54Z UTC

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I keep thinking of these images when I ponder FOCUS and SIMPLICITY:

The cereal isle a the market.

An over stuffed closet.

Costco.

I am easily overwhelmed by too much "stuff". Having just a few real "things" whether it be clothes, food, gurus, thoughts helps me to focus on and thus enjoy these things more. So, for me simplicity leads to focus and that couples to create really rewarding experiences.

By the way, have you ever seen the movie Tropic Thunder? It's really heavy. Goes into a lot of this stuff.

answered Oct 6 2011 at 14:53

none
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Do you more easily get simplicity and focus from living out in the sticks, Mer-Bear? – Kamal♦ Oct 6 2011 at 15:36

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p.s. Don't think I didn't notice haters-gonna-hate panda! – Kamal♦ Oct 6 2011 at 15:39

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+1 for Mer-Bear. Now stop hitting on my PH wife – Aravind Oct 6 2011 at 16:23

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Cool it dummies! I have a Dr. Scholl's clog with your butts' names on it (it's a really big clog). – none Oct 6 2011 at 16:44

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As far as rural living goes, it has brought both simplicity and complexity. It has helped to have easy access to amazing hiking and backpacking. Also we have been able to take up hunting. But rural living can be less simple in my opinion than living in a walkable city. I love going to Seattle because we never drive when we are there. We walk to the market each day, get what's fresh, walk home, cook. The family walk is like part of the dinner prep. Here I just run to the market then rush back - a lot less focused on that end. – none Oct 6 2011 at 16:50

ben61820 · Answer 5 · 2011-10-06 13:36:48Z UTC

Focus and simplicity in terms of a paleo diet and lifestyle mean eating minimally and living maximally.

Food is fuel first, it gives me the energy and mood to want to live the rest of my hours exuberantly and actively. It tastes good always. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Focus on whole, single ingredients as much as possible. Prepare them to taste good but with less, rather than more added flavors and ingredients.

If there is a choice, choose movement and interaction with things and beings around you rather than ruminating on edible things.

If presented with the opportunity to stop and think about it always choose to consume less and move around more. Humans seem to function better running a little leaner and hungrier than they do softer and fuller.

Summation: move a lot and eat not too much. make it all fun and tasty enough to enjoy.

majkinetor · Answer 6 · 2011-10-06 07:30:52Z UTC

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Much more so than the weight loss has been the radical transformation with respect to the role of food and nutrition research in my life. For the first time ever, food is simply fuel.

That is horrible.

You eat every day, two times a day, it should be something you looking forward too, that makes you happy and makes you enjoy life and people you eat with....

Now, I know there are people who do not enjoy eating at all and look at it like a fuel, just like there are those who don't like music or art in general.

Anyway, what is in your diet that lowers reward ? I don't see anything in your list. Meat and fat ARE rewarding. Cereals are not rewarding for many people. Me and my wife find fruit annoying to the point that we eat it couple a times per month and it was like that from year 1. Sodas are rewarding if you drink them 3L per day (I used to do that too) but when you stop it, they soon become disgusting. The only true low reward concept I found is shangri la diet.

OK, good chocolate is always rewarding for almost everyone.

I believe that there is reward component, its enough to light a joint and there you go - you see it in action and full power. But I don't believe a solution is to stop to enjoy food whatsoever. We can live between those extremes.

answered Oct 6 2011 at 7:30

majkinetor

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Your comment that it is horrible to think of food as fuel encapsulates one of the many misunderstandings about reward. I still love eating and am eating very palatable foods. Reward is not synonymous with palatability. Food doesn't make me enjoy life. The people I love are part of why I enjoy life. I think it is horrible that happiness is driven by food and "makes you enjoy life". But I do respect your opinion and appreciate the input. Thanks so much! – Aravind Oct 6 2011 at 10:21

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i love the OP. I agree food should first and foremost be fuel. after that recognition and acknowledgment of course you can make it as tasty as you want! My food tastes great always. But looking at food as the highlight of your day etc is simply a recipe for disaster. turn off foodTV, stop googling endless recipes, eat real whole food that tastes great and derive pleasure from the rest of 22-23 hours of your day – ben61820 Oct 6 2011 at 13:04

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oh here we go again. If we aren't fond of the food reward hypothesis, it means we lack understanding? Try again. So. Derivative. – The Loon Oct 6 2011 at 15:40

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I don't think it's "horrible" to think of food as fuel. Don't get me wrong, I love me a tasty bacon-cheddar burger. But temporarily or permanently lowering food reward can be used for many purposes--losing weight, as part of a resetting of reward stimuli in general, etc. Many people throughout the world eat very plain and bland foods and enjoy the taste because they don't have the access we do to a variety of tasty foods in combination. While I will never permanently eat a bland diet, my current low-reward low-palatability diet is serving me well. No evangelism, just another option. – Kamal♦ Oct 6 2011 at 15:52

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@Maj, I'd agree that looking forward to meals with people is a good thing. But that is enjoying a meal in it's wholeness, the society it engenders, etc. That is wholly different from the way many in the US view food as reward, think about food and cooking constantly, watch TV shows about cooking food, talk about food in the same way is sex, etc etc. If one can handle it, like many in traditional Italy can, great. But clearly looking at the US population there are many who can not. – ben61820 Oct 6 2011 at 15:58

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ZenFire · Answer 7 · 2011-10-06 11:06:04Z UTC

If a simpler lifestyle makes you happy, there is no need to seek additional reward in food. If people do need that extra reward, perhaps the overall life-reward quotient needs to be increased. This point remains open to debate.

It's not one-to-one, but I have noticed a consistent, repeatable correlation between the relative amounts of simple and the relative amounts of complex in my life, and how I feel about myself, the people around me and my life in general.

Too much simplicity - life gets dull.
Too much complexity - life becomes overwhelming, and I start becoming more dysfunctional, trying to meet the contradictory demands of all that complexity.

The balance? Simple Complexity

Shari Bambino · Answer 8 · 2011-10-06 02:35:36Z UTC

Perfect timing Aravind. In the midst of our collective iSadness and iCrying this point will hit home with many today. In the end it all should be about living the best life possible. Sometimes we need to take a step back to see that we are missing the mark. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the gut irritants and rancid oils so-to-speak. Thanks for giving me even more to think about (you big a-hole ;) )

Emily · Answer 9 · 2011-10-07 01:43:54Z UTC

Perfect! I need to simplify if I want this to work. I have started to get annoyed with all of the bloggers, writers, paleo people coming out of the damn woodwork. I need to remember to focus on real whole foods, moving, and just enjoying life.

BaconHealsChic · Answer 10 · 2011-10-06 11:15:49Z UTC

I love your post and excited to read more. The first thing that comes to my mind is...I don't have to have a tums or other antacid always on hand..

This might seem trivial but it's a big pain in the a$$.

In my pocket
In my purse
In my car
In my desk
On both floors of the house in multiple rooms

I can also lay down and go to sleep flat and not up on pillows because my digestion and heartburn suck.

Everytime I see a heartburn/pharma commercial I laugh and laugh...

Josh M · Answer 11 · 2011-10-07 00:06:45Z UTC

I have always been of the mind that food is fuel. The way I look at it the more we get away from the 'food is fuel' reality the more we fall into becoming limited and chained to certain conventions. Do I need good, healthy food to survive? Yes. Do I need fancy preparation methods, sauces, exotic spices, expensive ingredients? No, but I can certainly desire them. The less I am attached to anything that does not truly matter in my Life the more free I am to enjoy the simple things. Wanting, desiring and coveting things takes valuable energy away from experiencing things in Life that are rare and enjoyable. With my energy free to flow where it is needed I can experience raising my son as a true parent, present in the here and now. I can look at the World and see beauty where most see nothing. The World is fleeting, always in a state of flux. I can focus on something until I am satisfied and then flow onto some other important aspect of Life with no lingering guilt or regret or second guessing myself. I give of myself 100% to anything I do, I am not trapped in a false World of want and desire for things that add nothing meaningful to my Life.

Phazo · Answer 12 · 2011-10-06 02:12:20Z UTC

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Sounds like you've reached a middlepath of sorts. The road is long but I keep fighting to reach nutritional balance and harmony!

answered Oct 6 2011 at 2:12

Phazo
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Caleb the Hobbit · Answer 13 · 2011-10-06 13:23:33Z UTC

For me, my paleo lifestyle began as a minimalist lifestyle. What's the easiest way to get into better shape? Build up my endurance by walking a lot. What is the healthiest way for me to walk (especially given my other health concerns)? Barefoot. How do I handle my food sensitivities? Organic, whole, gluten-free foods.

And so on. I agree with you that once the basic principles are understood, that a lot can be lost or misdirected by looking to details. That said, I think very few people have really mastered certain principles, hence the need for a site like this one to work toward a deeper understanding.

Thus, focus and simplicity for me mean a life where I'm less distracted. I have the things which matter most to me, and really nothing beyond that. I live simply, in good health and good spirits. I own very little, and work hard to pay down my loan debt as soon as I can. I am also working hard to complete a master's degree in one year (it typically takes 18 months to 2 years).

In order to have that kind of lifestyle, I've embraced Paleo - for my health, for energy, and yes, for focus and simplicity in my approach to food and fitness.

Focus and Simplicity

13 Answers