Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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So, I was browsing the dairy section at Edeka, primarily the fats, and after a while I realized I was staring at a package with "Kokosfett" labelled on it. I picked up the package, and it said that it was "pure, non-hydrogenated coconut fat" and was "flavor free" (quoted text was originally in German).

Anyway, I bought a cube, took it home, and tasted some. The texture was different, more of a creamy feel than the cooling sensation that unrefined virgin coconut oil has, and there was definitely no coconut flavor to it.

My question boils down to - is this safe to eat? I'm guessing it's refined, is it worth it to eat refined CO?

Worse comes to worse, I'll just stick to eating a pound of Kerrygold a week, like I'm doing now.

Edit: Here's the product I got.

flag	asked Oct 10 2011 at 18:09 Bristlebeard 2,541●1●5●22

Nemesis · Answer 1 · 2011-10-10 18:45:27Z UTC

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That looks awesome, I'd like to try some! All coconut oil is refined, some just more so than others.

answered Oct 10 2011 at 18:45

Nemesis
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James · Answer 2 · 2011-10-10 19:15:12Z UTC

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Looks like a block of butter. Was it refrigerated? My pure coconut oil is solid at room temperature, but it turns to liquid with just a little more heat. Hard to see it being sold that way if it was pure oil, so could be something else in there (otherwise could get messy on a hot day in the car).

In terms of flavor, the more refined, the less flavor. Also, in general, the more refined, the crappier the source material (they have to refine it more to get rid of the impurities). Not saying that's the case here though. I was always under the impression that the Germans were more anal on the quality of their foods.

answered Oct 10 2011 at 19:15

James
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	Refining it gets rid of the taste, yes, but when you're using it to fry up eggs and meat, you don't want it tasting like coconut. So I would not assume that just because it's refined means it's from a crappy source :) – Nemesis Oct 10 2011 at 20:58
	Refrigerated. My main question is if the refining of the oil somehow made it bad. I won't be buying any more of it, but I was wondering if I should/could still eat it. – Bristlebeard Oct 11 2011 at 17:18
	It's really all personal opinion on your foodstuffs. Sort of like farmed eggs. You know the source, you know what's done to it, then you decide, do you really want to eat that or not. – James Oct 11 2011 at 22:18
	To explain the difference in case you don't know. Coconut oil comes from the meat of the coconut. Unrefined oil comes from fresh coconuts (so needs to be harvested/processed fast). Refined oil comes from dried coconut meat (so not the freshest, could be rotting on the ground for a while, or stored in less than sanitary conditions). Needs boiling/chemicals/deodorizing/etc. to make safe for human consumption. Now, is that bad or not? I'm not keen on the refined stuff with that knowledge, but most of the studies you see out there on the benefits are done using the refined stuff... – James Oct 11 2011 at 22:31

ulcova · Answer 3 · 2011-10-10 22:08:37Z UTC

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It's of similar quality as Crisco here in the US, only made of coconut oil and Crisco I think of palm oil? Anyway, it's only used for frying and baking and probably tastes slightly rancid? I am originally from Germany, I don't like the taste of coconut anything or Kokosfett, I use only butter, always have. You should have access to much better quality butter in Germany than Kerrygold. Just search the local "Bioläden" and weekly markets and ask the right questions on where the butter is from, how the cows are kept (even if grass fed in the summer many are grain fed in the winter), the golden color in German butter is added with betacarotene, never assume that it's because the cows eat alot of grass. And I doubt that Kerrygold cows are fed any different. But research the policies of Bioland and Demeter and others, check out the markets, big butter blocks at the dairy stand doesn't mean it's fresher or better or grass fed, just not packed yet. There are so many small organic farms in Germany, especially if you are further East, and you should also be able to find raw butter, just search and ask around. Avoid the "Reformhäuser", that's mostly crap. Oh yeah, and German butter is generally never salted (which is why I have so much trouble finding palatable butter here in the US, fortunately there's also Kerrygold unsalted). The Süßrahmbutter is for baking and cooking, the Sauerrahmbutter is cultured and for topping veggies.

answered Oct 10 2011 at 22:08

ulcova
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Just noticed you are in Potsdam...you should have no issue whatsoever to find grass fed and raw butter, grass fed beef, lamb, whatever. Humanely raised pork and anything you can think of. Keep on searching and asking, East Germany is basically nothing but high technology corporations and small organic farms. And ALL Germans are old fashioned, at least my generation and up (I'm 52), they just assume since you're American you want modern chemical stuff and Mcwhatever, at home the older folks still eat more paleoish than even other Europeans. – ulcova Oct 10 2011 at 22:16

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Oh, I'm sure you'll find your way around! More traditional than butter for frying in Germany is btw pork fat, "Schweineschmalz", available everywhere, in different quality. I never used it as I don't like the taste, better use straight Speck. I lived in Berlin for 23 years, originally from Northern Germany, so I'm all fish and potatoes. The "East" Germans have an only 22 year history of (over)processed food, so if you ask for what you want, I'm sure you'll find it. When the former LPGs(landwirtschaftliche Produktionsgenossenschaften) vanished in 1990 many farmers started their own small farms. – ulcova Oct 11 2011 at 18:31

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Weekly markets are usually fridays or saturdays in all towns, all year round, no matter the weather. And they have some restrictions on what they are allowed to sell out "in the open", at least it used to be that way (I left 2004), like raw dairy, or ground meat. Ground meat btw has to be freshly ground within the past 4 hours at the butcher, so if you don't see it, just ask for it, it's as common in Germany as in the US, we even sometimes eat it raw with raw egg yolk and salt/pepper. And you will see real butchers (for the first time?) and they can usually get you anything you want. – ulcova Oct 11 2011 at 18:49

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Don't shop for meat at a grocery store, look for Neuland butchers, I had one in the house in Berlin (Neukölln, Fuldastrasse). Just remember you're on a different continent with different native animals and plants, so even paleo will be different. The traditional Northern German cuisine uses little grain, maybe a slice of bread or two per day, it's all meat, fish, and tubers and cabbage and berries and apples. Dumplings and such is in the South. YOung Germans will say Müsli is good for you and Vollkornbrot. Older folks usually eat more fried potatoes. – ulcova Oct 11 2011 at 18:58

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Another thing: I bookmarked just a few articles (in German) for you, try to research yourself on wild boar in Brandenburg, I was living in Berlin in 1986 and haven't touched game or wild mushrooms since, threw out all open food I had (we all did), as did the government: umweltinstitut.org/radioaktivitat/… stephan-schulz.suite101.de/… welt.de/print/die_welt/hamburg/article13201566/… – ulcova Oct 11 2011 at 20:26

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Michael · Answer 4 · 2012-02-09 20:07:13Z UTC

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Please check Palmin

"Palmin® ist ein 100% reines Kokosfett"

http://www.palmin.de/produkte/index.html

You will find this product in supermarkets quite often, not at Aldi I suppose.

Don't mix up with "Palmin soft", in which they put some vegetable oil to provide a butter-like consistency for people who can't deal with a bar of rock solid fat.

regards

answered Feb 9 2012 at 20:07

Michael
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	I've checked out Palmin, but I think they hydrolyze the coconut oil. So it is "gehärtet", where the stuff I found mentions that it isn't. – Bristlebeard Feb 12 2012 at 7:29
	Right, just added it in case you need fast access to such a product. Alternatives are definitely available in "Bioladen". Search for "Kokosöl nativ" and "kalte Pressung". I got something from "PhiliPPinen Landwirtschaft". – Michael Feb 13 2012 at 21:01
	By the way, I expect the oil is hydrogenated, which means that you introduce hydrogen which reacts in presence of a catalyst with the double bonds of the unsaturated fatty acids making them to a single c-c bond - they become saturated. In this way you turn native oil, a mixture of some unsaturated and saturated fats, into a mixture of saturated fats of possibly different chain length. This makes them chemically more stable and they become less rancid - this property of chemical stability is actually desired when ingesting. Cell walls should be stable I guess. – Michael Feb 13 2012 at 21:48

mindmt · Answer 5 · 2012-09-20 11:26:57Z UTC

I live in Germany, and just discovered the stuff you're using. I get it in "Tegut". It's refined coconut oil, and may or may not contain some traces of solvent (heptane). If you're cooking with it, or putting it in your coffee, more solvent should be driven off I guess.

Palmin is partially hydrogenated, so may contain low levels of trans fats. If totally hydrogenated, less of an issue, but total hydrogenation is probably impossible. The levels will be negligible compared with a typical margarine or vegetable shortening.

In the end, I like the Kokosfett product, for cooking and coffee, and don't trust Palmin. If you want coconut aroma in your coffee, though, you have to buy much more expensive virgin oil.

Coconut oil in Germany - What’s Kokosfett?

5 Answers