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Saw on the news--a study of 35,000 men showed a 17% increase in prostate cancer for men that took Vit E over placebo...

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 I would ask Chris masterjohn. He told me that the rda was based on prisoner studies where they fed the people mainly corn oil. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Oct 12 2011 at 23:29
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 The sutdy in jama only used alpha vitamin E......total bullshit study. – The Quilt Oct 13 2011 at 2:04
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 The RDA was established to prevent diseases of deficiency like scurvy or beriberi. It's correct -- they are not the standards for 'best living' or thriving, only barely surviving. – grace Oct 14 2011 at 0:19
Thanks for the question because there is so much bad, dishonest science out there that deceives sheeple and clueless, law abiding citizens. – grace Oct 14 2011 at 0:26
Plus one quilt! Plus one Melissa! – grace Oct 14 2011 at 0:27
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8 Answers

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Uh ohs, not equivocation. As Majkinetor mentioned, synthetic vitamin e can compete with real vitamin e and steal its role, while being much less effective. Furthermore, natural alpha tocopherol in large doses competes with gamma tocopherol and the other forms that we would be getting from food for the job, which all serve unique functions in the antioxidant network. It's like a sports team, you don't just want one kind of player. It is gamma tocopherol that is most prevalent in food, but most of the supplements are alpha. But say you were to get natural mixed tocopherols, that would be a whole new ball game, that's what you get in food, and that's what your body uses best.

If we can, getting vitamin e from diet makes the most sense, but I would read this as all vitamin e is bad, just that whatever vitamin e these people mostly took is potentially bad.

Also, when people take supplements they often experience a licensing effect from them. They think that the supplements give them a get-out-of-poor-health-free pass and somehow counteract that trans-fat-laden doughnut, so you can get people who take multivitamins who eat worse than they would have otherwise.

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 Well said. However, vitamin E is not only tocopherols but also tocotrienols... so even mixed tocopherols may not be enough. Thats one reason low carbers should do as many vegetable portions as possible. – majkinetor Oct 12 2011 at 10:36
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 There are a number of supplements out there, like Jarrow's Toco-Sorb, that are not just alpha tocopherol. They're basically concentrated palm kernel oil (heavy on tocotrienols). – Jim Oct 12 2011 at 13:36
I only know of one significant food source of tocotrienols and that's palm oil. So I'm not about to say that they are a vitamin, merely a little something extra. And yes Jim I know about those, I mentioned that. It is probably best for them not to be extremely high dose, though. 100IU or even 50 seems like it would be best. – Stabby Oct 12 2011 at 17:32
Excellent response. Really diet is best but because the soils are so depleted, the nutrient density is not the same as 100 yrs ago. Synthetic vitamins don't bind the receptors in the same fashion as naturallly derived onces and the adverse effects can be bad, just synthetic progestins killed more women in the WHI study. Lurotin is a synthetic beta carotene associated with higher mortality in nearly every study (ATBC, CARET, HATS). It is made from a benzene ring from cheap petroleum derivatives. HATS is another trial that used synthetic vitamin E with negative results. Get R-E-A-L. haaa aha! – grace Oct 14 2011 at 0:24
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If we lived in a pristine world with no pollution and chemicals etc that are completely overwhelming our bodies' natural antioxidant capabilities, I would say ditch the vitamins. But since we live in our modern chemical soup world, I would suggest you take a quality naturaly high gamma e product such as the one by A.C. Grace ("Unique E") in a dose based on your body weight in the AM with breakfast and then a separate tocotrienol complex product with your evening meal -- I like Solgar's tocotrienol complex -- that or Twin-Lab's product.

Caveat -- if you currently take any medication such as blood thinners, do research and check with a physician knowledgeable about supplements (most are not -- so not an easy task, but persevere).

Vitamin supplements may not be "natural" but neither is living in a heavily polluted environment.

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More info: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111011163043.htm

Hm... so, they started to blame vitamin E for mortality and cancer issues. If the effect exists its probably small and may be related to the form of vitamin. Synthetic version of vitamin E shouldn't be used, only natural as it is very large complex of natural substances (some form of alcohol actually).

Perhaps taking easy on vitamin E until we know more is not a bad idea.

=== EDIT ===

ZOMG, wow, why do I smell BS in the air...

Conflict of Interest Disclosures: All authors have completed and submitted the ICMJE Form for Disclosure of Potential Conflicts of Interest. Dr Thompson reported receiving research support from the National Cancer Institute for a randomized controlled trial testing finasteride against placebo, both of which are supplied by Merck. Dr Gaziano reported receiving grant support (to his institution) from Wyeth (now Pfizer) in the form of vitamin and placebo pills and packaging. Dr Karp reported receiving grants to his institution from Pfizer. Dr Klotz reported receiving travel support for meetings from sanofi-aventis, Merck, and AstraZeneca and research support for investigator-initiated trials from Abbott and GlaxoSmithKline, and institutional grants pending. Dr Chin reported receiving consultancy fees from Janssen, Amgen, Novartis, and Firmagon; receiving payment for lectures from Firmagon; and payment for development of educational presentations from AstraZeneca, Novartis, and Firmagon. Dr Meyskens reported being a co-founder of Cancer Prevention Pharmaceuticals. Dr Baker reported board membership for Merck for which he receives no compensation. Otherwise there were no other conflicts of interest disclosed.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/306/14/1549.full

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 So cavalier... Why in the world would you think that taking a mega dose (i.e., an order of magnitude more than would be obtained naturally) of a fat soluble vitamin (or any vitamin for that matter) is is a good idea? Also, while there might be a slight bias against natural remedies, I don't see any mind-blowing conflict of interest here – Jay Oct 12 2011 at 14:16
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 I don't see you complaining about megadoses of Vitamin D which are 10 - 20 times higher then RDA which virtually everybody on this forum takes. You don't see any mind blowing conflict ? Question - is there any pharmaceutical industry not in disclosure ? Do you know that vitamins are not patentable ? Do you know that analogs sell as pharmaceuticals by 10000 price of natural stuff ? For instance Alpha Vitamin D or Marinol or I-forgot-the-name-of-100x-more-expensive-fish-oil-for-heart-disease. – majkinetor Oct 12 2011 at 14:28
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 Lovaza, what a joke. – Futureboy Oct 12 2011 at 16:05
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 @Matthew: Vitamin business can not be compared to pharmoaceutical business. As I said it, its not patentable and you have to share profit with everybody who makes it. Yes, I am suggesting they might have fabricated results - removing some subjects for instance or using improper placebo. It happened many times before. Also, their conclusion tells you everything. They concluded basically that "all vitamins are not harmless" while testing specific synthetic forms of only 2 of them: ..underscore the need for consumers to be skeptical of health claims for unregulated over-the-counter products – majkinetor Oct 12 2011 at 17:26
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 Yes, Futureboy, Lovaza is the name. 840 DHA/EPA for $150 per month. FDA approved of course. I can get the same amount for $20. Here is Marinol comparison: medicalmarijuana.procon.org/… – majkinetor Oct 13 2011 at 8:02
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Pitch it and get your vitamin E from raw organic almonds and pastured egg yolks.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3085/2
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/05/pastured-eggs.html

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The only Vit E I take is in my multi-vitamin and it's only 30IU. I fully concur with pitching the 400IU pills. Doesn't sound like anybody needs them, even if the bottle says "Promotes Prostate Health!" – akman Oct 12 2011 at 19:22
For healthy people yes, but keep in mind that E is used therapeutically in larger doses. It looks like people can't differ supplemental and curative doses. – majkinetor Oct 12 2011 at 19:56
Travis.....i like palm oil source best. – The Quilt Oct 13 2011 at 2:05
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 Yes, palm oil is great, but there is that orangutan thing .... cmzoo.org/conservation/palmOilCrisis – majkinetor Oct 13 2011 at 7:51
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That's interesting. Vitamin E seems to lower prolactin

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1490755

This is a good thing btw... Prolactin is not a hormone you want... makes you fat, depressed, in excess that is.

This patients had a deficiency of course... but E seems to relatively hard to get through diet unless you are eating nuts or avocados... but then doesnt the E just get used to protect oxidation from the fats in these foods? (MUFAS and PUFAS).

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Unless youre a post menopuasal women. Context is critical. Anyone who makes axiomatic statements best be ready for the exception. And i have hundreds of these exceptions in my office. – The Quilt Oct 13 2011 at 2:07
Quilt: No one makes more axiomatic statements than you do. – Matt Oct 13 2011 at 7:19
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I've seen results like this for years and wonder why anyone would still be taking such large doses of vitamin E. The problem could be the form (i.e., synthetic vs natural) or type (single or full spectrum) but I think the most likely problem is the MASSIVE dose.

A vegetable-oil-free paleo diet might contain about 10-20 IU of vit E. Not sure what the argument would be for taking 20-40 times that amount in a day. Of course it causes problems!

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I really don't know why those running the SELECT trial chose such a high level of supplementation. – Matt Oct 12 2011 at 16:53
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Folks interested in avoiding cancer have a lot of other things to worry about other than Vit E. Who knows what other risk factors these men had.

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I don't trust or like any supplement in an oil base including CoQ10. The oil is often soy but even if it isn't the potential of rancidity is not worth it to me. I feel the same way about fermented cod liver oil...the intense burning in my throat from this at times ended my relationship with it. I look to foods for the nutrition though I do take some vitamin C and magnesium malate.

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 The tiny amount of (even rancid) oil in a capsule would be worth consuming compared to, say, a vitamin D deficiency. – Travis Culp♦ Oct 12 2011 at 22:53
"Tiny amount"?...you're holding a bottle of rancid oil with 100 vitamin E capsules. – Richard N Oct 13 2011 at 1:04
Yes, thats tiny amount, lol. Also, rancidity could actually be tasted. Also, all those come with some antioxidant, mostly E or ascorbyl palmitate. – majkinetor Oct 13 2011 at 7:53
Actually it's refined, rancid oil...eat up Maj! – Richard N Oct 13 2011 at 11:47

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