Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

7

An obese friend of mine has just started to show some interest in Paleo. However, he's a (high-functioning) alcoholic; specifically for beer. When his doctor informed him that he would need blood pressure medication, he refused it because he would also have to stop drinking. When I said Paleo was a beer-free zone, he pulled back. I know -- that sounds like a hopeless case, right? But I have hope! He's only 42, and too young to pack it in just yet; he also has a beautiful 12 year old daughter to live for. His interest in Paleo makes me think I might be able to show him a healthier lifestyle, otherwise I wouldn't pester him or try to convince him (I try not to proselytize...honest!). But he's asking questions, so he is open to hearing more.

What do you guys think would be a good way to approach someone who wants to feel better, is interested in the concept of Paleo, but is unwilling to give up the bottle? He isn't just drinking to relieve pain, though that is part of it; he is also intensely hedonistic and just loves the buzz. Thinks he would be bored to tears without it, as well as in pain from back/joint problems.

I need some convincing ideas to throw his way while his interest is focused. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to make Paleo sound more compelling than beer drinking? He knows the health risks he's running; he figures short life + beer is simply better than long life - beer.

Thanks.

ETA: Thank you everyone so far for all the superb and thoughtful answers. He's tentatively agreed to try Paleo + Beer, meaning he'll stop ordering pizza, and get broccoli with his steak when he goes out to eat rather than curly fries. Baby steps. :)

edited Oct 14 2011 at 0:50

asked Oct 13 2011 at 7:37

January
3,495●3●12

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help him change what he is willing to change. let him feel some success, even if its just giving up pop tarts. small changes can lead to big changes, but he has to get started somewhere. – sage_ Oct 13 2011 at 14:13

The Weston A. Price foundation suggests saturated fat helps protect the liver. – August Oct 13 2011 at 19:49

August - Could be related but my grandfather claims that back in the swinging 20s his sisters used to eat the equivalent of a stick of butter before going out drinking to be able to handle more liquor. I should probably ask him about this again to get some clarification on it.. I never really wanted to try it myself! – Jackie Jan 8 2012 at 1:58

henry · Answer 1 · 2011-10-13 10:30:39Z UTC

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I am a heavy drinker and have benefited enormously from going paleo and feel fine. Advise him to change for low suger/dry alcoholic drinks such as red wine or whisky. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

answered Oct 13 2011 at 10:30

henry
181●3

	I think it will help to hear that other drinkers feel far less need to drink when they're eating well. And good idea, thank you! – January Oct 13 2011 at 20:30
	I get 20% of my calories from booze. I consider it a good fuel source, especially for breakfast. Side benefit is it gets you warmed up on cold fall or winter mornings. I lost 100 pounds and I never cut down on drinking. Being celiac I use wine, potato vodka, 100% agave tequila, and sorghum beer. Yum! – wjones3044 Oct 14 2011 at 0:55
	Also, the healthier you eat, the less alcohol it takes to get that "buzz". This will be beneficial! – DanielleO812 Feb 8 2012 at 1:41

luckybastard · Answer 2 · 2011-10-13 11:32:29Z UTC

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The book Potatoes not Prozac makes a case that the relationship between alcoholism and sugar addiction is correlative. Maybe paleo straightens that out for him.

answered Oct 13 2011 at 11:32

luckybastard♦
12.5k●1●14●65

I'll shoot that one his way. I think there's something to that idea. – January Oct 13 2011 at 20:32

greyman · Answer 3 · 2011-10-13 09:15:19Z UTC

6

Maybe it was not necessary to introduce Paleo as a "beer-free zone". Strict paleo doesn't allow beer, sure, but I think a beer drinker will still benefit from eating Paleo. So let him eat Paleo and when his fitness improve, maybe he will become more motivated to continually get rid of alcohol.

answered Oct 13 2011 at 9:15

greyman
1,411●1●9

	You're right; it was a tactical error for sure to say that. I didn't realize when I said it that he was an alcoholic -- another mutual friend pulled me aside and gave me the skinny. He's never sloppy, so I assumed the beer was a sometimes thing. I was wrong! – January Oct 13 2011 at 20:30
	Fuck "strict paleo"! – wjones3044 Oct 14 2011 at 0:55

Steve Parker MD · Answer 4 · 2011-10-13 09:23:51Z UTC

Paleo won't substitute for beer. Assuming he really is an alcoholic, he wont' change until he's ready, such as when he's hit rock bottom. No amount of nagging will get him there.

A judicious exercise program paradoxically may actually improve his aches and pains, so he could lose that excuse for drinking. But there will be plenly other of excuses.

If he denies he's an alcoholic, drinking beer just because he enjoys it and could stop anytime, you might challenge him to abstain completely for two weeks. Losing that challenge might plant a seed in his mind that, in fact, he's got a problem.

If he buys into paleo except for the beer, suggest one of the lower carb beers such as Michelob Ultra or MGD 64.

It does'nt sound like your friend is psychologically ready to make major lifestyle changes. You're going to be limited in what you can do. You can be supportive and informative, then stand back.

Good luck!

-Steve

thuphaer · Answer 5 · 2011-10-13 11:21:26Z UTC

This seems to be a logical approach. He can make each next step when he feels he is ready. 1) paleo eating + keep drinking beer 2) paleo eating + swithing to healthier beer (low-carb/gluten-free beer) 3) paleo eating + switching to (red) wine 3) paleo eating + reducing the amount of wine

P.S. : I've just started paleo a few weeks ago.

David Moss · Answer 6 · 2011-10-13 11:34:45Z UTC

5

If you want to convince him to eat paleo, while assuming that he'll continue to drink beer, you could mention 'the drinking man's diet,' which seems to support low carb and lots of meat. If he's insistent on drinking for the fun, why can't he switch to gluten free spirits or cider?

answered Oct 13 2011 at 11:34

David Moss
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	Thats awesome.... – JayJay Oct 13 2011 at 13:43
	Remind's me of Allan Sherman's parody song of the diet - see below. – Dave S. Oct 13 2011 at 18:21
	Because he likes beer. he's tried other things, and they aren't his schtick. – DThoris Mar 9 2012 at 1:53
	I don't think we can infer that DThoris- sounds like if he's "drinking to relieve pain" and because he "loves the buzz", not necessarily because he really likes the taste of beer (which, for most people, is an acquired taste). – David Moss Mar 12 2012 at 14:44

Riveted · Answer 7 · 2011-10-13 10:17:42Z UTC

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Have him over to watch Fat Head. Tom Naughton inspired me to look at myself straight in the beer goggles and drop it for a better life and lighter frame. He talks more specifically about the connection between beer and sugar addiction in an interview with Nora Gedgaudas here (Episode 41). She has some great strategies for dealing with it.

Good luck with your friend.

answered Oct 13 2011 at 10:17

Riveted
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	I'll send him to that. He'll watch TV. Reading books likely not so much (tho I'll try), but television, that he can do while laying back drinkin'. (argh) – January Oct 13 2011 at 20:33
	Good. It's a very fun movie - sort of a response to Supersize Me. Tom's all over YouTube too. Truth is, unless he makes a very personal and private realization, no amount of convincing is going to help. We humans do all kinds of irrational self-destructive things. – Riveted Oct 13 2011 at 22:46

Matt · Answer 8 · 2011-10-13 11:33:58Z UTC

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Alcoholism is probably a bigger issue than anything. Going paleo is like putting a band-aid gunshot to the gut. Given his preference for beer over longevity/health, what makes you think he'd be on board with paleo? How many SAD Americans choose crap-for-food over longevity/health?

answered Oct 13 2011 at 11:33

Matt
37.9k●2●10●70

	not all alcoholics have crappy diets... – sage_ Oct 13 2011 at 14:07
	True, but I didn't suggest otherwise. My point is that he's already got skewed preferences, and that he's not serious on board with getting healthy. – Matt Oct 13 2011 at 15:42
	He has a terrible, awful, take-out pizza diet. I agree, Matt, that's he's not on board -- I'm thinking he is trying to find further ways to keep drinking but avoid the medications his doctor wants him on (blood pressure, cholesterol). Paleo may seem like a shortcut to keeping his hedonism intact. – January Oct 13 2011 at 20:25
	Half-assed paleo is better than none at all! – Matt Oct 14 2011 at 13:33

Caleb the Hobbit · Answer 9 · 2011-10-13 13:26:44Z UTC

Two suggestions:

Ciders, which are gluten free already Gluten-free beers (like Bard's or Redbridge)

That's assuming of course he wants to drink something akin to beer, and not wine or spirits. Anyhow, both of the above are good options, but still support paleo's commitment to no gluten. Many of these are also lower in sugar (though not all) which is good. So, while it isn't strictly paleo, it might be a good step in the right direction.

saiklón · Answer 10 · 2011-10-14 02:00:10Z UTC

Paleo + beer is better than SAD + Beer, it's probably better than SAD by itself!

Personally I wasn't willing to stop drinking when I went paleo. I started drinking liquour and wine and cider though. Eventually I got more in tune with what alcohol does to my body and drink A LOT less now. Either way paleo in place of SAD is still better either way and will help replace all the important B vitamins and magnessium you lose when drinking a lot (among other things).

Simibee · Answer 11 · 2011-10-13 10:24:00Z UTC

If he must drink beer, then gluten-free beer is probably the best bet, as to see real improvements with things like joint pain, it's necessary to at least trial gluten elimination, not just reduction.

Although if he is set on a healthy lifestyle change, becoming a Paleo alcoholic is rather like investing in a new set of double-glazed windows for your house whilst neglecting critical foundation repair. Given what you've told us ahout him (high-functioning, can't take medication) I suspect that he is simply looking for what he can justify to himself as a way of cancelling out the health effects of his addiction, without having to actually give up drinking.

DudleyP · Answer 12 · 2011-10-13 10:29:54Z UTC

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'The buzz' can be overcome by the simple administration of a daily 'Antabuse' tablet taken orally, if he can be persuaded to take it. It's a very big 'if', but with support it can be done. A great fried of mine was weaned off of several bottles of whiskey a day by this method, and has stopped taking Antabuse a couple of years ago, with total abstinence since, and despite pressures during this time, which could have driven anyone to the bottle. Your friend's 12 year old daughter would perhaps be the ideal person to ensure he takes the daily tablet. Then with a Paleo diet,as I have found, beer doesn't taste as good.

answered Oct 13 2011 at 10:29

DudleyP
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I understand where you're coming from, but that's an awful lot to put on someone so young. – Simibee Oct 13 2011 at 11:16

There's no easy solution to alcohol dependency, but once he is committed to such a regime,others can step in and ensure the tablet is taken. The first day or 2 are critical. – DudleyP Oct 13 2011 at 12:46

She doesn't live with him (weekend dad), so it wouldn't work anyway. :/ Part of the problem with the idea of Antabuse is that I think he's doing what Simibee said -- trying to find a way to still keep drinking, not actually quit. He wants the buzz; I would rather see him getting the buzz from food and vibrant health, but he doesn't see that as possible. Ultimately it's his life and his choice; I just hope he can see his way out. – January Oct 13 2011 at 20:24

1

We're putting the guy on Antabuse already? Good Christ... – wjones3044 Oct 14 2011 at 1:00

When's the best time to start treating an alcoholic ? – DudleyP Oct 15 2011 at 9:10

Dave S. · Answer 13 · 2011-10-13 18:21:54Z UTC

Drinking Man's Diet by Allan Sherman

Oh, I'm on the Drinking Man's Diet,
It came from a book I was loaned.
It's really terrific and quite scientific
And I'm half stoned.
For breakfast some cornflakes and vodka,
But cornflakes have carbohydrate;
So I don't eat those fattening cornflakes,
I eat the vodka straight.
Drink, drink, everyone drink;
It's not as bad as we used to think.
With every Manhattan your stomach will flatten,
So drink, drink, drink.
The Air Force invented this diet,
A fact which they hotly deny.
Of course they deny it, 'cause this is the diet
That got the Air Force high.
For lunch you can have three martinis,
What better lunch is there than that?
But caution: do not eat the olives,
'Cause olives make you fat.
Drink, drink, everyone drink;
It's not as bad as we used to think.
If pounds you would burn off, then turn on your Smirnoff,
And drink, drink, drink.
For dinner, a nice Scotch and soda
Now that oughtta help you to lose.
No whipped cream, no butter, just lay in the gutter
And booze, booze, booze.
Suppose you should meet a policeman,
Who says you've been quenching your thirst;
You just tell him it's physical fitness
And health comes first!
Drink (hic!), drink (hic!), booze everywhere (hic!);
Pass that decanter of bourbon there.
I'm fatter than ever, but here's what's so clever:
I don't care!

[not an answer - but too big to put in a comment]

mloster · Answer 14 · 2011-10-14 06:19:25Z UTC

Hey when I started paleo two years ago, I did just that, Paleo + Beer. I felt amazing and lost a couple (I was never really overweight). I would drink a six pack and still have a six pack. Anyway, it was the segway to paleoland I needed, rather than a life shattering cold turkey moment. Actually now, I make my own gluten free beer and really don't drink all that much. Mostly, I share it with friends and enjoy the brewing process. Paleo doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach. Eating healthy (paleo) some of the time is better than never eating healthy.

Kamil · Answer 15 · 2012-02-07 21:48:15Z UTC

1

read this: http://www.paleotable.com/2011/10/guest-post-paleo-beer-review.html

answered Feb 7 2012 at 21:48

Kamil
11●1

Thanks Kamil. Much appreciated! When I showed my buddy the list, he said "very sweet of you. Too bad there are no beers on that list." meaning he thinks gluten free beers are unappealing. :). On the plus side, he is going to start Paleo this week. He's keeping the beer for now. Better partial Paleo than none! – January Feb 8 2012 at 3:08

Alcoholic friend interested in Paleo, doesn’t want to give up beer…suggestions?

15 Answers