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Here's my understanding of current expert opinions on the subject of macronutrients:

  • KGH -- They don't matter -- you can use either starch or fat for fuel, as long as you stay away from NADs and too much fructose.

  • Robb Wolf -- Match your starch intake level too your activity level; partition carbs PWO.

  • Chris Kresser -- Moderate paleo carbs/fat is best.

  • Stefan Guyenet -- LFHC is the bees knees. You can get the bulk of your calories from starches, as long as you keep fat low.

Am I off-base here? Where do you all stand on this issue?

For some reason I'm worried about adding too much CHO and not reducing my fat intake enough. GCBC was really convincing about CHO and CHD/obesity, but I'm open to the new perspective emerging in the movement. Guyenet's theory seems interesting but lacking -- I like Peter Dobromylskyj's ideas about mitochondria better. Regardless, everything seems up in the wind as of late, short of the prohibition of NADs.

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I don't think Stephan thinks "LFHC is the bees knees." – Paleo2.0 Oct 13 2011 at 23:58
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Yes, I correspond with Stephan regularly and I have never gotten that impression. He's certainly never expressed alarm at my HFMC diet. I think he generally thinks food is more than macronutrients. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Oct 14 2011 at 0:43
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Yeah I've been readin SG since I was just a good ol' WAPer and I've never gotten the impression he's down with what the OP says. – ben61820 Oct 14 2011 at 1:08
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"food is more than macronutrients" +1 – Matt Oct 14 2011 at 2:16
hence food + micronutrients are the best. – majkinetor Oct 14 2011 at 8:16
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9 Answers

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I agree with Robb Wolfe- i.e. earn your carbs. For the most part my diet falls in the Primal/Sisson maintenance category.

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But isn't it harder to earn meat in the wilderness than carbs? Why not "earn your protein"? Or maybe "earn your food" is the most accurate whether it comes from protein/ fat or carbs. Asians look pretty slim and they don't do crazy workouts several days a week. – Paul Oct 14 2011 at 14:05
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Well since the question was were do "you" stand, this is it. Not for weight loss and I have no ill health markers. I greatly prefer the frequency and variety of foods that lead to this particular ratio of macros. So part of it is that I can enjoy what I eat and feel great. Even though I actually do not exercise at high intensity more than 2-3x/week. Eating higher carbs would displace some of my favorite meals. – JayJay Oct 14 2011 at 15:49
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As for "earn your protein".....I'd say Travis answers and comments cover protein pretty well. – JayJay Oct 14 2011 at 15:53
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Either way, protein gives the most satiety per unit of energy and has a higher thermic effect. Any effective (and tolerable) fat loss diet should be built primarily around lean meat.

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I've heard this said about fat too. References? – the_real_cdodd Oct 14 2011 at 1:10
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I'd agree with that. Set the protein at a good amount, work carbs and fat around that, depending on activity levels. – ben61820 Oct 14 2011 at 1:13
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There are many references that say protein is more thermic and more satiating. Here's one and I am sure you can Google others. sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/… – none Oct 14 2011 at 1:34
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I've been doing this experiment for a lot longer than 4 days. Lean meat is best in the form of a trimmed steak. When you hit your target BF%, start eating the fat again. The fat's not bad, but it will be a hurdle if you're cutting. – Travis Culp Oct 14 2011 at 5:04
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Many people in the paleosphere make a lot of speculative claims. This area hasn't had a lot of studies where SAD confounders muddies the waters. Having said that, give me kgh or jaminet any day of the week. Their plans are whole food, relatively simple and great results are seen without me being asked to get a shit ton of testing and/or take a cabinet-full of supplements. Ymmv. – luckybastard Oct 14 2011 at 12:21
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It depends. I think it's all a grand n=1 experiment!

If you are obese & insulin-resistant and want to lose body fat, then high fat, moderate protein, low carb seems to work well. YMMV.

If you are normal weight and metabolically healthy, then eat enough carbs to feel good. YMMV.

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People with leaky gut and other gut conditions are better off with Robb Wolf's suggestions. Starch is sugars, and people with a bad gut almost always have the wrong bacteria/yeasts in them thriving on complex carbs. So at least for these dieters -- and I'm one of them -- low sugar/starch is best.

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Yah and Bill and Cliff and ROB think I need high starch low fat, even though several people believe I have leaky gut! I wonder if eating sprouted breads when I first went low carb caused a gut issue for me. – Jack Kronk Oct 14 2011 at 14:08
From reading Paul Jaminet I think it depends on the type of infection. Bacterial or fungal. One gets worse with low carb. – Ikco Oct 14 2011 at 21:30
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Two founders of the modern paleo movement, Melvin Konner and S. Boyd Eaton, in 2010 published their best estimate of macronutrients in the ancestral diet:

■ Carbohydrates, % daily energy: 35-40 ■ Protein, % daily energy: 25-30 ■ Fat, % daily energy: 20-35

They weren't arguing those are the healthiest proportions. But if you're trying to emulate the ancestral diet, shoot for those ratios.

I've see other experts argue a carb proportion as low as 22%.

If you lived 50,000 years ago, you ate what was available in your area. That varied by latitude, rainfall, etc.

-Steve

Reference: Konner, Melvin and Eaton, S. Boyd. Paleolithic Nutrition: Twenty-Five Years Later. Nutrition in Clinical Practice, 25 (2010): 594-602. doi: 10.1177/0884533610385702

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Good point, steve. To go even further, genetics probably pay a not insignificant role in what one may do best on. – luckybastard Oct 14 2011 at 12:24
I think Michael Rose has good suggestions here: what's best for you is a combination of your ancestry and your age. 55theses.org/2011/06/16/… – Beth-WeightMaven Oct 14 2011 at 12:48
From the study- "HG CHO consumption ranged widely, from about 35%-65%" "The IOM recommends a CHO range from 45%-65% of total energy, This recommendation would approximate HG total CHO intake" "Reduction of carbohydrates to extremely low levels is not consistent with the HG model" What paleo "experts" are arguing for 22% carbs or less? – cliff Oct 14 2011 at 13:45
donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/05/… – cliff Oct 14 2011 at 13:48
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Along with a 35-40%, 25-30%, and 20-35% ratio, what were the recommendations for daily activity levels? I'll bet not many eating paleo today get the same activity level our paleo anscestors did who ate like this. – akman Oct 14 2011 at 15:52
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On one hand all this talk of macros, carb-insulin-obesity, etc is refreshing to me because I feel like the ship is finally coming back around to the idea that there is no magic here, calories still and have always mattered. Eat too much of anything and you gain weight – that weight could be lean mass and/or could be body fat, depending on the hormonal signaling and the mechanical stimuli you’ve subjected your body to.

So along those lines I myself find what the OP describes as KGH’s way of thinking to be the most straight forward and evidence-based.

At the same time I think as a way of thinking and acting the notion of earning your carbohydrates can only be a good thing as it simply serves to keep people recognizing the fact that it’s most likely beneficial to use your body rather than not use your body.

Also, I find this whole discussion refreshing because it’s taking down the widespread notion in the LC crowds that you can just eat as much as you want and you’ll be fine. Caloric deficits and physical activity have never stopped working.

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N=1

Macronutrients certainly matter to me.

I think it's great that we have a lot of intelligent and passionate people theorizing and challenging the norm. But after years of testing I can say that LC is what works for me. The minute I go off of it I feel like crap and gain weight around my midsection, despite exercise.

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How do you define "low"? – Riveted Oct 14 2011 at 15:29
I'm pretty consistently below 50g/day. 4-5 days/week before I go into the gym I chug a small choc milk+whey powder, so essentially I hit about 70g on those days simply from that 6oz. Powers me through my workout, gets the aminos into the blood faster, yadda yadda. – RJ100 Oct 14 2011 at 20:42
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I agree with Travis and others about getting your protein right then going from there. It is interesting though that several of the bloggers seem to have independently converged towards 20% carb or 100-150g of carbs. Some see this as a more of a minimum while some might see this as more of a maximum, but it seems to kind of be the sweet spot that most bloggers would not object to. It might be good place to start if you are in doubt about how many carbs work best for yourself.

In the past I have lost a lot of weight on low fat and have lost good amount on low carb. I personally feel better though when the carbs and fat are more balanced.

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I recently started working with a leangains-style approach: consistently high protein, alternating moderate carb (workout days) / low carb (rest days). Feels great but too early to judge impact.

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i started that again too recently. before i tried to do it low-carb and would get cortisol issues. now i actually cycle carbs as recommended and no issues so far and feel awesome. – luckybastard Oct 14 2011 at 16:27
Hey Mr. Riveted... send me an email please? sherpamelissa at gmail dot com. – sherpamelissa Oct 14 2011 at 16:55

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