Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

8

When I'm explaining my dietary choices in following paleo (only when solicited), I have found that people's default, when they decide it's too hard to not eat bread (duh), is "well.....everything in moderation." They shrug, the conversation ends, and they walk away feeling like well-balanced individuals......while I'm the healthy one. :)

What can I say to them that will not be nasty or snarky, but will challenge them? I want to get people to think more about what they put into their bodies, or even to come back later for more discussion. The last thing I want to do is turn them off by acting like a snotty, know-it-all a-hole.

flag	asked Oct 25 2011 at 12:25 Ruth 2,464●5●21

8

This is a tough one for me because I think the truth is that for many people that rule works just fine. If one is fit, feels good, not sick, etc and eats everything in moderation then leave them be. People live long, good lives with grains for sure. If the person, OTOH, is sickly, fat, etc then you can just tell them that grains, legumes, and dairy aren't helping them – ben61820 Oct 25 2011 at 12:52

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Who says you're the healthy one? Saying "everything in moderation" is a polite way to walk away from someone who wears it on their sleeve. – thhq Oct 25 2011 at 16:09

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Nearly exact duplicate here: paleohacks.com/questions/63990/… – Ambimorph Oct 25 2011 at 18:58

@ thhq -- I don't think I wear it on my sleeve. as I said, I only go into this stuff when asked about it. @ Ambimorph -- I did see that question before posting this, but as I said, I don't want to be flippant about it, but more polite, engaging, and intriguing. – Ruth Oct 25 2011 at 21:21

True, Ruth. I didn't vote to close, just wanted to point to it. Perhaps I should have said "closely related", rather than "nearly exact". – Ambimorph Oct 26 2011 at 11:59

Pieter D · Answer 1 · 2011-10-25 13:11:45Z UTC

16

"Everything in moderation!"

"Tell that to an elephant or a lion."

"What do you mean?"

"Well, they don't eat everything in moderation."

"No, that's because they are obligate herbivores or carnivores. We are omnivores, we can eat everything"

"Oh, so grass in moderation is ok?"

"Well, you know what I mean, not 'everything'."

"No, I don't know what you mean. Why is it ok for an elelphant to eat leaves, and not for us?"

"Uhh?"

"Elephants evolved by natural selection for a certain lifestyle, just like we did. And grains are not part of our evolutionary history, just as tree-leaves are not, and grass is not."

...

answered Oct 25 2011 at 13:11

Pieter D
11.5k●2●21●50

8

Cyanide in moderation. – Matt Oct 25 2011 at 13:17

That was going to be my comment. How much is a moderate amount of cyanide? Cyanide is obviously a poison. It's possible to argue that wheat is a poison or at least a toxin. How much of that toxin, then, is moderate? Why would you choose to consume any of a toxin? – wonkothesane Oct 25 2011 at 13:26

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Just remember there is no good or bad food. If there was the food industry might me annoyed... – Matt Oct 25 2011 at 13:30

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Cynicism in moderation as well :) – Matt Oct 25 2011 at 14:26

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If the Princess Bride taught me anything at all, it taught me that certain amounts of poison in moderation means beating Sicilians when death is on the line. It also taught me to be wary of large rodents. And that swordplay is an excellent workout. – L. Oct 25 2011 at 16:47

show 3 more comments

Frikasee · Answer 2 · 2011-10-25 13:27:36Z UTC

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As I always say: "Everything in moderation; including moderation..."

answered Oct 25 2011 at 13:27

Frikasee
121●2

that's what I say! – Sarah Oct 25 2011 at 23:11

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Actually, Mark Twain said those exact words. It's one of his notable quotes and I like to see him get the credit. – Nance Oct 25 2011 at 23:33

Damn straight! :) – Beatrice Oct 26 2011 at 7:10

This is how I usually finish that sentence. I try to avoid going on tirades these days about how "blah blah, moderation is why people are fat, blah blah" but I decided I'd rather be witty than be met with a blank stare. – Joshua Mar 12 2012 at 12:12

Erik of Rockford · Answer 3 · 2011-10-25 12:50:08Z UTC

I was talking with my father in law the other day and he can't grasp the idea of a lifestyle diet, he can only associate food choice with weight loss. Anyway, I told him about how I made a Meatza, and he asked why we would trouble with that when we can just have tiny pizzas made on tortillas. I explained we don't eat tortillas, he said well if it is a lifestyle choice, you can cheat with a little tortilla 3-4 times a month.

I put my hand to my head, and said it is a lifestyle choice not to make my body feel like crap. He responded you have to cheat occasionally otherwise it is just not healthy.

Hand went back to head and I said, ok but if and when I cheat, I make it worth it. It is going to be a heaping plate of pancakes, or something else ridiculous, maybe once every 3-4 months, not frequent tortillas.

His Reply: "Well thats not going to help you lose weight."

I gave up.

Matt · Answer 4 · 2011-10-25 13:13:59Z UTC

4

You're going to get people to throw "moderation" in your face when you follow rigid, dogmatic paleo principles. But the reality of the matter is that the majority of paleo benefits result from the very minimal initial efforts. The vast majority of people are concerned about getting the most "bang for your buck". The vast majority people are never going to be as dialed in as your average PaleoHacks user.

Honestly, ask yourself: why not paleo "in moderation"? (Yes, of course, there are reasons to be strict with paleo, but the overwelming majority has little need to be as strict as most of us are.)

answered Oct 25 2011 at 13:13

Matt
37.9k●2●10●70

	Sure, I don't ever claim to be 100% strict, but my goal is to get people to really appreciate the HUGE effect of what they consume on health & all health problems. For some reason, some people just don't even consider that what they eat may cause or cure their multitude of issues. – Ruth Oct 25 2011 at 13:32
	This is largely because folks, when they do alter their diet, don't feel any different. I think the assumption is that paleo is just another diet that doesn't produce meaningful results. The magic, though, is that half-assed paleo ("paleo in moderation"?) can produce huge results. – Matt Oct 25 2011 at 21:54
	Part of the process may be learning what your "safe cheats" are. I was surprised to find that wheat and dairy (except butter and cream) have immediate, really negative effects but something with sugar but no other neolithic ingredients is pretty benign. I'm also pretty comfortable with occasional legumes. – Nance Oct 25 2011 at 23:41

Kewpie · Answer 5 · 2011-10-25 13:03:15Z UTC

If it is a conversation worth continuing (sometimes it's just better to walk away), I usually point out that there are some things that shouldn't be consumed by anyone at any time in any amount. Transfats being one of those things. Most people who are even marginally interested in nutrition are aware that transfats are bad. Full stop. Even the U.S. government (who seems to find a way to defend every processed food), doesn't have a safe level of consumption for transfats because no one should be eating them. Ever.

I realize tranfats have nothing to do with the bread you were discussing, but it does prove their comfortable excuse false and forces them to examine what they really believe instead of just spouting out a trite saying.

It's not likely to cause an immediate conversion to paleo, but it is a small crack in the SAD shell they are living in and once that crack forms it's a lot easier to get new information inside. After all, how many of us went straight overnight from a full-on SAD diet of McDonalds and Banquet frozen dinners to a full-on paleo diet of all local grass-fed/pastured meats and local organic vegetables? It usually happens over time with smaller changes; crack the shell and the small changes will start to happen.

honeybee · Answer 6 · 2011-10-25 14:02:34Z UTC

Ruth, in my opinion, many people want to stay in the dark. When I was a CCU nurse, I can't tell you how many people I saw who were deathly ill, maxed out on every single medication possible, but would not even consider changing their habits. I asked one of my patients about this (he was waiting on the heart transplant list), and he said to me, "Why should I do that. That's what the medicine is for." No lie.

The Japsican · Answer 7 · 2011-10-25 14:21:42Z UTC

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I usually respond:

Yes, EVERYTHING in "moderation" (put up air quotes when you say the word "Moderation").

...including cigarettes and heroin...

then I repeat it: "Everything in "moderation!" (air quotes again)

answered Oct 25 2011 at 14:21

The Japsican
1,137●2●8

4

That response has never worked for me. I have a few people in my life that live by the before mentioned motto. When I give an answer like that, they then assume I am being overdramatic, missing their point, and dismiss my response outright. – Senneth Oct 25 2011 at 16:01

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I've had the same results. My son complains about his digestive issues and then defends his wheat and soy to the max. All I can do is love him as he is. – Nance Oct 25 2011 at 23:37

Wow, Nance. You're paleo and your son not at all? Usually it's the young people that get paleo because they have the internet and are more open-minded. You must have a young mind :) – Korion Mar 12 2012 at 10:59

staceychev · Answer 8 · 2011-10-25 15:01:59Z UTC

People will never ever change until they're ready to change. You can scream and shout until you're blue in the face, but you can't. Make. People. Change.

What you can do is be honest and open about the choices you've made and then hope they come to you when they're ready. For me, the answer to "everything in moderation" is "some things in moderation." Now that I've lost 63 pounds (OK, 6-1/2 of that was baby), I will sometimes eat cheese or even a little high quality ice cream. But other things I'm happy to never touch ever again (beer, for example) because I know it'll make me feel like crap. I tell people that. And then, when they're ready, they ask me more.

I've also had to come to terms with the fact that some people, like my mom, will probably never be ready. It drives me crazy. I still offer the occasional piece of advice, but I just drop it in an email and walk away. It's not my job to change her life.

Lady_Arwen · Answer 9 · 2011-10-25 15:17:06Z UTC

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Really - you want sickness in moderation, too??!! You want pre/diabetes, obesity, arthritis, osteoporosis, and heartburn in moderation, and all those diseases mentioned on the drug commercials too!

answered Oct 25 2011 at 15:17

Lady_Arwen
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	ehhh it works for tons of people. look at ripped bodybuilders moderately eating oatmeal, grits, bread etc...theyre fine – Mallory Oct 25 2011 at 17:39
	The fallacy in your statement is the assumption that everyone will have said sickness in moderation. I can eat tons of fruit, and even moderate honey/sugar, with perfectly normal blood sugar response. Wheat makes me sick from end to end but doesn't bother my grandson at all. – Nance Oct 25 2011 at 23:43
	Mallory - A person can looks good and have inflammation and aging inside. When you are young most people can tolerate junk food and still look fine! But try it when you are older (depending on the person - 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 ... unless you have spectacular genes. There are athletes getting autoimmune disease or have latent inflammation. I'd like to see CRP, A1C, triglycerides, HDL and other numbers in athletes - they may not publicly admit it. Some marathoners carb load and then die of heart attacks later on. – Lady_Arwen Oct 28 2011 at 0:00
	Nance - How old is your grandson and how much wheat is he eating per day? Who's to say he won't have issues later on in life (that's what happened to my husband) - though I hope for his sake he doesn't. He has some of your genes. My maternal grandmother and aunt had ulcerative colitis and avoided wheat because it made it worse. I avoid it too. What exactly is tons of fruit? 5 servings a day? 10 servings a day? High fructose fruit or low fructose fruit? I agree some people are more gluten sensitive vs. fructose sensitive - always individual differences. – Lady_Arwen Oct 28 2011 at 0:05

sage_ · Answer 10 · 2011-10-25 20:15:34Z UTC

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".....results in a moderate life"

answered Oct 25 2011 at 20:15

sage_
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Edward J. Edmonds · Answer 11 · 2011-10-25 20:40:30Z UTC

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Everything in moderation. Except most people who claim "everything in moderation" use it to justify a "habit" they don't do in moderation.

answered Oct 25 2011 at 20:40

Edward J. Edmonds
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	You often hear this when people are getting smashed on the weekend. – Edward J. Edmonds Oct 25 2011 at 20:41
	Edward, thanks for posting this answer. I, too, find that the "everything in moderation" comment is used by those who use any saying they can think of to continue some kind of indulgence which is unhealthy, dangerous, or unkind, etc. – PaleoGran Oct 26 2011 at 15:44

Grocket · Answer 12 · 2011-10-25 13:04:26Z UTC

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When it comes to bread made from un-soaked, un-fermented, genetically-modified wheat, I think "moderation" should be something less than the central focus that it currently enjoys in the SAD.

answered Oct 25 2011 at 13:04

Grocket
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David Rourke · Answer 13 · 2011-10-26 00:15:51Z UTC

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"Forgive him, for he believes that the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature." --George Bernard Shaw

answered Oct 26 2011 at 0:15

David Rourke
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smiley · Answer 14 · 2011-10-25 12:42:10Z UTC

It's my opinion that people will learn just from being around you and seeing your choices. Our diet choice, like any of our choices, is ours to make. In Robb Wolf's Paleo book, he says something like most of us can't handle grains/gluten. Some people don't know they're sick. And when they do get sick, they can't handle gluten. (Something like that.) So maybe you could arm yourself with more information for when the time comes. Also his book says we only need to eat gluten every 15 days for it to continue to aggravate our system. So much for moderation! Since I read that I've been being more strict and not having the occasional beer or wheat item.

gydle · Answer 15 · 2011-10-25 12:59:35Z UTC

How about "As you like it. To each his own."

IMHO there's no need to overdo it in the "challenging them" department. He/she is likely to store the info deep down in his/her brain somewhere. How/when/why they use it or follow up on it is up to them. Your job is done once you've explained why you eat the way you do. Then you just gotta let it go ... and serve as a relaxed, fit, healthy, cool example. Actions (adn health) speak louder than words.

Mallory · Answer 16 · 2011-10-25 17:41:18Z UTC

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i like grilled cheese... but im not having it everyday. thats not moderate. doesnt mean ill never have it again in my life...

answered Oct 25 2011 at 17:41

Mallory
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Damn, now I'm thinking about delicious grilled cheese. – Travis Culp♦ Oct 25 2011 at 17:55

NOT WORTH TRYING TO REPLICATE 'PALEO' HAHA eat the real thing or GTFO in my opinion – Mallory Oct 25 2011 at 21:23

Amy · Answer 17 · 2011-10-25 23:24:06Z UTC

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"Everything in moderation, ESPECIALLY moderation!" I believe I first heard David Wolfe (raw food guy) say that. It's definitely true.

answered Oct 25 2011 at 23:24

Amy
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NoGlutenEver · Answer 18 · 2011-10-26 01:59:02Z UTC

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I ate moderately for years. And now, for me, the level of moderation that works is pretty extreme. But the migraines are gone. The meds didn't work, so diet was my only option.

answered Oct 26 2011 at 1:59

NoGlutenEver
156●1

The Loon · Answer 19 · 2011-10-26 02:08:43Z UTC

"Everything in moderation" is a code-phrase for "whatever", only meaning that your friend is either too nice or too passive-aggressive to tell you how they really feel. When you hear this phrase, it is your signal to say that you agree and then let it drop.

Dan Moffett · Answer 20 · 2011-10-26 10:08:39Z UTC

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If it's a friend, I've found the way to deal with the problem is to give them a copy of the book "Wheat Belly" by Dr. William Davis. Several friends have put wheat out after reading the book. After one reads it I pass it along to someone else. It works.

answered Oct 26 2011 at 10:08

Dan Moffett
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I've got that one on hold for me at the library! Can't wait to pick it up. – Ruth Oct 26 2011 at 12:30

Korion · Answer 21 · 2012-03-12 12:11:01Z UTC

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Paleo comes closest to moderation as far as I know. Isn't everyone's goal here to have perfect blood tests, or, in other words, to have balanced (= moderate) levels of minerals, hormones, cholesterol, ...?

answered Mar 12 2012 at 12:11

Korion
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How do you respond to “everything in moderation”?

21 Answers