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I need to build the case against sugar, reasons why it is no good for me. Sugar addiction is my Achilles heel, I have to battle against it.

What should I read? Videos? For example I measured out all the sugar in a chocolate bar, it was a lot!! What else can I do to really drive the point home!

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Check out this book on sugar! thecommonsensewarrior.com/2011/10/26/… – TheCommonSenseWarrior Oct 26 2011 at 19:08
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This is a great, thought-provoking question but the truth is hate is an emotion and "why" relates to logic. There is no reason that I hate cottage cheese, other than flavor, and there's no reason that I love sweets other than flavor. I DO love sugar but I understand that I should avoid eating only high-sugar foods. – Nance Oct 26 2011 at 23:58
Sugar is the devil. When you get this figured out let me know with step by step instructions. I only eat my sugar with chocolate though. – BaconHealsChic Mar 9 2012 at 3:12
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Actually, if your liver glycogen is depleted, it's not that bad... – Thomy Mar 9 2012 at 9:38

13 Answers

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Start with Robert Lustig's Sugar: The Bitter Truth on YouTube. Then read Gary Taubes' Is Sugar Toxic?

Other good resources:

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Perfect! Will check out, just what I need! – Minnie The Minx Oct 26 2011 at 19:08
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Arguing againt Lustig, dannyroddy.com/main/2011/10/27/… – Poisson Mar 9 2012 at 12:49
Well actually, the Mark Sisson page also links to article going against Lustig. – Poisson Mar 9 2012 at 12:53
Thanks for sharing. Very informative. – DanielleO812 Mar 9 2012 at 14:23
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Ray Peat argued in favor of sugar. See an overview here:

http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/2/27/sugar-pure-white-awesome.html

Can any Paleohackers explain where they disagree? Although Ray Peat is Paleo on many aspects, there seems to be a strong divide on sugar and carb consumption.

I got very positive results from adjusting my diet with Ray Peat's (fructose, calcium, food combinations, etc) so I'd be really interested to know.

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I'm not going to bother to take that stuff apart. Whoever wrote it never heard of insulin resistance I guess. – DFH Mar 9 2012 at 14:55
@DFH: insulin resistance is a big part of this article. Could you elaborate why it is wrong on the subject of insulin resistance? – Poisson Mar 9 2012 at 14:57
Sure. I first picked up IR while exercising my butt off in a sport that is part strength, part cardio. My dr had me see a dietitian after a surgery, and I get the low fat lecture. Off I go training and become a low-fat sugar burner. I end up with trigs off the charts, as high as 1,600. After 6 months of this exercise, I'm tired, 245lb, and running on carbs since I'm supposed to be low fat. Fast forward, health gets worse, I'm over 300, and falling apart. My doc finds IR, says do VLC, take these meds. I developed IR while exercising my butt off and doing carbs/sugar. I beat IR by doing VLC. – DFH Mar 9 2012 at 16:27
...ran out of space. If someone wants to explain why I should add carbs for IR, when my doc removed carbs and it worked, I'm all ears. if someone wants to argue that lack of carbs causes IR, I wonder how this accounts for me becoming badly IR while training my ass off and drinking sugar-choked Gatorade. :) – DFH Mar 9 2012 at 16:30
Is it possible you were IR because you were low-fat, not because you were high-carb? – killerbee Mar 9 2012 at 16:40
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Are you actually eating things sweetened with sucrose or do you mean sugar from fruit? There's a fair amount of nutrition to be gained from fruit (potassium, vitamin C, manganese, etc.) so the presence of sugars isn't all that big of a deal.

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Fruits are ok. It's all the stupid chocolate bars - which are basically all sugar. Drat! Sugar and me are having a painful divorce! – Minnie The Minx Oct 26 2011 at 19:08
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So have you tried to just eat higher cocoa percentages? Additionally, I've heard that a magnesium deficiency can increase chocolate cravings. Do you supplement Mg? – Travis Culp Oct 26 2011 at 20:34
I've found that darker chocolates taste great once you wean yourself off lots of added sugar. – Beth-WeightMaven Oct 27 2011 at 0:25
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I'm not going to pretend to hate sugar because I don't and because I'm biased. I think it's more important to hate the context rather than the sugar.

Sugar causes problems when you let it invade the overall quality of your diet in my opinion. Most people who switch to a Paleo type diet did so because they were unhealthy. For those individuals it is probably wise to minimize pure white sugar. I think this is especially true if your daily caloric intake is low. So if you are eating 1500-2000 calories a day it's probably wise to eat only the nutrient dense foods. If all your eating is 1500-2000 calories a day lets say you eat 500 calories from white sugar. Basically 25% of your diet is coming from white sugar with absolutely no minerals or vitamins. With a caloric intake that low you are just begging for problems. In that case the white sugar is the problem because in context your not getting enough whole foods again with the vitamins and minerals for your body to operate properly. So I think, or at least I say that in this particular context sugar is the indirect cause but your nutrient status is the direct cause. Big difference. And blaming sugar is a cop out, take responsibility and blame yourself. If you have a sugar addiction more than likely you're not getting enough of some nutrient.

Now lets take somebody who is extremely active. Lets say to maintain their basic metabolic caloric intake they are eating a good nutrient dense diet. However they also need an additional 2000-3000 calories a day because they participate in a sport. It would be easy to say okay, I'm eating 2000 calories to maintain my BMR from nutrient dense foods so I should be able to eat white sugar for the rest of my diet because I just need something to burn. Not so fast. You also have to take into consideration that your going to need to replace any minerals and vitamins that you lost during your activities in addition to the fuel. So as you can see even if you are working out a lot your still losing more than just energy your also loosing minerals and vitamins.

Okay so here is how I approach things. I run 100+ miles a week. I eat eggs, butter, a little meat and liver, milk, cream, and cheese, and bone broths, potatoes, etc. A really Paleo type diet that nobody on here could disagree with. However, I also drink a lot of home squeezed pulp free orange juice and whole ripe fruits. When I consume white sugar, it's always mixed in coffee with milk or cream, chocolate milk, hot chocolate made with egg yolks, ice cream, milk and honey, etc. It's always mixed with something nutrient dense. It's never just empty sugar calories.

Even when I have things like white rice, it's never just white rice, I'll make a cream sauce.

Again, when people have problems it's not the sugar, it's: what is white sugar invading? If it is invading the quality of your diet, then you have what's coming. If your addicted to sugar it's usually because something else is wrong. A good portion of the foods I eat have lots of sugar. I do not have a sweet tooth nor do I crave sugar or sweets. It's just part of my diet just like everything else I eat.

These anti-sugar "experts", my problem with them is that they can't see the forest from the trees. They are ignoring the larger problem of diet quality. Especially the outspoken ones. I would guess that they have some deep seeded psychological issues and nutrient imbalances judging from their demeanor and critical reasoning skills.

If you want to hate sugar because it helps you eat a better diet. Good. Just realize the solution to the problem is to eat a nutrient dense diet i.e. take care of yourself.

Food for thought: Perhaps sugar science only shows trends towards disease because it is placed in the context of a overall world wide decline in diet quality.

Update March 9, 2012: I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that white sugar is quite beneficial, it's no secret that I pound oranges, but behind the scenes for a very a long time I've been riding the dark horse, she has led me down the straight and narrow.

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My point is that context is everything, if that wasn't clear. If I wasn't active I'd ditch the white sugar. In one setting sugar can be productive in another it can be detrimental. What's that old saying... "There is a time and place for everything." – Edward J. Edmonds Oct 27 2011 at 9:34
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Nonsensical rant. The issue is not nutrient density or whether sugar crowds out other nutrient-dense foods. The issue is excess sugar as a specific agent of aging, metabolic derangement, glycation, and the elevation of all Neolithic diseases. Added sugar combined with something nutrient dense you may be eating is still harmful, if you consume sugar in excess. What you're advocating is sugar consumption in moderation, which is a legitimate argument as advanced by someone like Peats or Feinman. But you do not yet have the tools grasp that argument. – Ipso Facto Oct 27 2011 at 17:33
It's absolutely useless to build an argument against white sugar if it is taken out of context. That's precisely how cholesterol and saturated fat was demonized. Additionally, while the issues you raised are valid questions, the question is "Why should I hate sugar?", to which I ranted about context. If you want to make a case against sugar do so in context so that it has some actually real world meaning. – Edward J. Edmonds Oct 27 2011 at 19:14
I also think I made it pretty clear that for regular people it would be wise to avoid it. That is not sugar in moderation because you are implying that I mean this for all people regardless of context. Don't pull what I say out of context. I gave specific examples of when I think sugar is harmless and when I think it is harmful. – Edward J. Edmonds Oct 27 2011 at 19:18
But Ipso Facto, you were correct in this regard, it was a rant and your right I don't have the tools to discus sugar in the context of whether or not it is an agent of aging, metabolic derangement, or glycation. However, I'm curious can you point out a culture that did add white sugar to their diet that didn't displace their otherwise nutritional traditional diet? – Edward J. Edmonds Oct 27 2011 at 19:27
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Different strokes or different folks. Once I learned that without a doubt, sugar was harmful, it was easy to stop it completely by getting mad at it. I guess that is the opposite of hyperpalatability.

Maybe that's why food reward gets under my skin so much. It's as far away as reality as I can be. I see sugar treats in the store and think, "crap, evil, poison, why does that even exist!?" Food reward my ass! I really do hate that stuff!

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Guess it's a food reward for the seller. – Sam Mar 9 2012 at 12:13
"Once I learned that without a doubt, sugar was harmful, it was easy to stop it completely" Is sugar really the only thing you removed out of your diet? I just looks a bit weird to me that you're 100% sure it was the sugar making you unhealthy, while you mention you were on a low-fat high-carb diet. I doubt you were eating pure sugar and then removed it and saw a huge difference? High-carb usually means high-starch, high-phosphorus and high-gluten on the SAD. – Korion May 24 2012 at 7:44
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I read an article a few months ago (which, of course, I can't find now) that detailed how there are 8 things that make a substance addictive. The article went on to say that sugar has 5 of these things - which was more than cocaine or alcohol.

In trying to find that article, I did find this: http://drryanbentley.com/2012/are-you-addicted-to-the-most-addictive-substance/

I love sugar. I really do. My biggest weakness is non-US Coca Cola (made with sugar instead of HFCS). That used to not be such a problem since I could only get it when I traveled outside the United States. But now even my local grocery store carries Mexican Coke. And the sub shop across the street from my condo, called Larry's, carries it. I used to think it was cute to say I was "going to Larry's to get some Mexican Coke," but now I feel like I would be better off if I was actually getting Mexican coke. Man, I really gotta quit.

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Maybe you crave coke for a reason its a great source of Co2 and sugar which are both highly anti-stress. Nothing wrong with mexican coke or pepsi throwback in moderation. – cliff Mar 24 2012 at 21:29
It's a good thing they don't sell it in my grocery store :-) That's the only thing that keeps it moderate! It's more of a problem when I travel internationally because then I drink a couple of bottles a day. But when I'm in the US I don't really drink it that often since I stopped going to the restaurants where they sell it. – Andrea Mar 25 2012 at 14:04
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Here is something else you might want to read:

http://www.sugarshockblog.com/2007/12/salt-the-forgot.html

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Thanks, will look at. – Minnie The Minx Oct 26 2011 at 19:09
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Minnie, I used to eat a lot of candy (lots of M&Ms) but I started consuming fermented foods like milk kefir and water kefir on a regular basis after a month on paleo and my sweet cravings went away about 30 days later. So there is hope for you. I think re-populating the good bacteria in your gut will lessen your cravings for sugar, at least that was my experience. – Wcc Kamal Stabby fan Oct 26 2011 at 19:51
I had a similar experience - I found that I could chase the sugar cravings away by eating a little highly fermented full-fat yogurt. – MimsySeoul Mar 9 2012 at 10:47
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Agree: Mark Sisson's "Definitive Guide to Sugar" and Lustig's "Sugar: The Bitter Truth." Go Google "health benefits of sugar" and enjoy a good laugh.

For what it's worth, I try to make a point not to "hate" food, including food I emphatically choose not to consume.

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I had a laugh when watching Lustig. Besides points that can be made against his ideas, see for example a link in your link to Mark Sisson, the guy seems overconfident, really didn't enjoy his presentation style. – Poisson Mar 9 2012 at 13:07
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Hate sugar because it messes with your system.

Hate sugar because it makes you crave even more sugar!

Hate sugar because it gives you a 'rush' and then you feel awful a short time later.

Hate sugar because it affects your moods, your performance and your general well being.

Give up sugar, cleanse your system.......... See how amazing you feel. Do it - You won't regret it!

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It's a drug.... – Phazo Oct 27 2011 at 0:33
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Because it makes WORMS AGE FASTER! ... and worms are our friends.

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And here is irrelevant part about its effect on humans: sugarisadrug.com/78-ways-sugar-ruins-health.html – majkinetor Oct 26 2011 at 21:15
j/k, sugar is awesome :P – majkinetor Oct 26 2011 at 21:16
Glucose specifically. I've seen another paper were glucose caused oxidative stress: care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/6/1406.short – Edward J. Edmonds Oct 28 2011 at 14:06
Maybe if they ate some orange juice they would have lived longer. :) – Edward J. Edmonds Oct 28 2011 at 14:06
Hey, you are right, orange juice would end fast dying for sure: wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_worms_eat_orange_peels – majkinetor Oct 28 2011 at 14:26
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The issue is fructose from added, exogenous sugar, not so much endogenous sugar from fruits or other whole foods. The fiber and the soury tastes of most fruits are built-in inhibitors that stop you from eating too much or screwing up your liver. This is why it's rare for anyone to become diabetic by eating too much fruit; endogenous sugar isn't likely to screw up your metabolism. If you're juicing, though, that's another story.

Those who claim sugar isn't harmful do not understand the (i) addictive nature of sugar, and (ii) the predatory nature of sugar in your palette, crowding out all other taste buds. Products enhanced by a combination of excess sugar and salt are "hyperpalatable": the best examples are Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, Doritos, Frito Lay, and Pop Tarts.

Add the addictiveness, hyperpalability, and the fructose component. Then add the high- glycemic nature of sugar, especially exogenous sugar, when combined with other high-glycemic items.

If you're not easily addicted and if you're hyperactive, is sugar ok? Dr. Lustig did say that if you're Michael Phelps, you can eat anything you want; you can eat as many Snicker bars as you can fit in your 6,000 calorie diet. He's not worried about athletes drinking Gatorades. He's worried about the fat kids that are impressionable, easily addictive, and inactive drinking Gatorades. Unfortunately, that's most of us.

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I agree, don't hate sugar, just don't do sugar...I'm 37, highly fit athlete, just coming off the high carb, high sugar wagon that I used to believe was needed to fuel my activities. How wrong I was! Now I'm addicted to the stuff battling with glucose intolerance and am finding it extremely difficult to quit. (I'm by no means fat, but don't want to end up diabetic, having cancer, or any number of other nasty diseases sugar is responsible for.) Do read Mark Sisson, he has well researched science to back his theories up.

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For my body, consuming sugar leads to inflammation.

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Not according to studies ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757696 ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17384340 – cliff Mar 24 2012 at 23:08
Interesting link, but that is an awfully limited sample who consumed a limited amount of sugar : Four groups (eight subjects each) of normal-weight subjects were given a 300-cal drink of glucose (75 g), fructose (75 g), or orange juice or water sweetened with saccharin (control group) to drink, and then blood samples were collected. During a period of my life I was overtraining (skating upwards of 12 hours a week, attending 9 hours of team practices, daily weight training and yoga). This led to chronic compartment syndrome in my legs which was greatly exacerbated by the consumption of sugar. – Jen Mar 25 2012 at 17:09
Did you experiment with it, or do you say that just because you ate more sweet things? I thought for a long while that my gout was caused by the candy I ate, but it was actually cutting out bread that solved it. – Korion May 24 2012 at 7:48

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