Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

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---------THIRD PARTY EDIT------------
The below hack is old stuff. It's interesting background from the spring of 2011, but you might want to read these more current posts:
What’s the deal with PaleoHacks, Dr. Kruse and the FBI?
Richard's blog post about Jack's latest events
Jack's blog post on CT12
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BACKGROUND

There was a paleohacks thread yesterday about how much we should trust various sources of information. We’re lucky to have some very smart people posting interesting information on paleohacks, such as Ron Rosedale, Cate Shanahan, and The Quilt.

Lately there have been many posts about people having positive results with The Quilt's Leptin Rx. The science is complex, but it definitely piqued my curiosity. As an information junkie, I decided to scan through what the Internet could tell me about The Quilt and his ideas.

I found some very positive things, but several fairly disturbing things as well. Please excuse this extremely lengthy hack, but I do believe it is of value.

POSITIVES

Let me start by saying that it's clear Jack has some very positive things to contribute to the paleosphere:
- Quilt is a neurosurgeon. Thus, he definitely knows science. Has a strong grasp of several fields, from cell-level to organ-level.
- Quilt gives free advice and will personally answer your questions. Very cool for a busy surgeon.
- Those who follow his protocol appear to be having success.
- The guy can think out of the box. He is curious about all aspects of health. He lost a bunch of weight, and thus walks the walk in addition to talking the talk.
- Quilt can be both serious and funny. See Halloween 2011(NSFW/NSFL) version of Quilt. He is a longstanding and active member of paleohacks who often provides interesting viewpoints.

NEGATIVES

In looking into his writings further though, I found some disturbing trends. Perhaps I am over reacting? Misinterpreting?

Quilt on cancer reduction through nipple massages
Quilt: "nipple massage will reduce your risk of breast CA by 50% because of the sensitivity to oxytocin....."

Quilt on MUFAs Quilt: "Mufa's are more sensitive to oxidation. This is why avocado brown so fast when cut. Unstable."
Matthew: "The browning of avocados has nothing to do with mono-unsaturated fatty acids. It is an enzymatic reaction cross-linking phenolic compounds to protect the damaged fruit against microbes."
Kamal: "'Tis true. The culprit is exposed enzymes, not fatty acid oxidation. You can't just go around making stuff up to prove your points. Well, technically you can."
(Current lipid biochemistry indicates that MuFA are very stable...This fact is widely accepted)

Quilt on Mindfulness
Paleohacks user Kamal calls out Quilt for making up statistics:
Quilt: "Mindfulness has shown 56% reduction in cancer recurrence.Show me one drug that even comes close to that number?
Kamal: "Ummm...no. Most of the trial research was done here in Boston at MGH, UMass, and Beth Israel. Neither meta-analyses nor individual trials show a 56% reduction. During the summer that I interned at the Benson-Henry Institute for Mind-Body Medicine, no one (not even the venerable Dr. Benson) threw around those numbers. I'd ask you to cite your sources, but that does not appear to be your modus operandi."
Kamal: "Yesterday, I saw a claim he made about mindfulness reducing cancer recurrence by 56%. Luckily, I had an internship at the biggest mindfulness research center in the country a few years ago, and knew he was wrong. But who is going to do "due diligence" just to make sure that someone isn't making stuff up?"

Just a few of Quilt's factual errors (overstatements, uninformed speculation, possible plagiarism)

Quilt says, "My principles are based around optimizing life through science not opinion”, though responses often appear to be his opinion rather than substantiated or cited scientific (fact/reasoning).
The following examples (taken from paleohacks) are used to illustrate various errors of fact, faulty reasoning, uninformed speculation and possible plagiarism. Quilt: "Leptin control [sic] fat disposition in body parts. This is why women have curves and men dont. Moreover, people with dosordered leptin function have major body comp and fat deposit issues. See any HIV patient as a great example of the other side of this coin."
akd: "Jesus, lipodystrophy is a side effect from some antiretroviral drugs used to manage HIV infections. not everyone who takes antiretrovirals gets it. its not a function fo the HIV infection, and looking up the cause i dont see the word "leptin" anywhere.

RG73, medical student and paleohacks participant questions a statement made by The Quilt
Quilt: "Cross country running or skiing plus paleo is an oxymoron and might eventually kill you via apoptosis or senescence which ever your programmed for first".......I'll pass"
RG73: "Citation that running shortens telomeres please? Running is going to cause apoptosis? Seriously? That makes zero evolutionary sense. Mitochondria work against our telomeres? Separate genomes. What is the biological mechanism? Werner et al. 2008, Werner et al. 2009, Puterman et al. 2010, LaRocca et al. 2010. I mean I could go on with this all day."

ZZ: "Per what I've read on Whole Health Source and PaNu sites, we want to keep PUFA <= 4%."
Quilt: "This number comes from Mary Enig and truthfully no one knows if it is true."
Jay: "The 4% figure does not come from Mary Enig. It comes from real research done by Lands..."

Quilt possibly making up stuff about gelatin:
Quilt: "All gelatin that is commercially produced is loaded with excitotoxins. So i would never eat it. If you make your own with bone broth that is awesome."
Kamal: "Please explain how home made bone broth (producing gelatin) is different than gelatin made from pig skin and powdered in amino acid profile. Both have glutamine. Most (paleo) people get the regular, unhydrolyzed gelatin."
Jay: "QUILT, this is just mechanistic speculation. Moreover, it doesn't even seem well-founded."
Matthew: "Interesting fact: A breakfast made up beef containing 50 grams of protein can contain 10 grams of glutamate. In contrast 10 grams of gelatin contains only 0.5 grams of glutamate."
One of many instances of Quilt posting something but not acknowledging that the source is another website, not him (mild, perhaps unintentional "borrowing" of ideas)...

Matthew: "By the way, have the LEF been pinching your work? I realise the above quote is from your blog. If you look under the Vitamin K heading at paragraph 37-38 on this page it looks quite similar to the last six lines above..."

Quilt willy-nilly attacks other paleo gurus even when they have never heard of Quilt. See here for Kurt Harris getting pissed off by Quilt...
Dr. Kruse: "While i like both of these guys, neither one has any clinical experience treating cancer patients. They read literature. When kurt was a practicing doc he spent time in a dark room with films not patients."
Kurt Harris MD: "I suppose referring to my by my Christian name when I have never met you supports the impression you know a single thing about my clinical practice or career.You don't. I have had varied and intimate contact with patients doing interventional radiology, including neurointerventional for over 25 years. For 6 years I performed a person consultation with all of my patients at my own private imaging center - that would be about 12,000 in-person patient encounters. This is where I started treating patients with my diet, through this local contact. And I continue to do it locally and in internet consultation, even if you don't know it because I am not as loud about it as some...I am not clear on what being an oncologist has to do with anything, but you are no more of an oncologist than I am. You are a dentist and neurosurgeon. Try sticking to your crackpot theorizing rather than knocking a radiologist and physicist for the "madness" of thinking you might not die if you eat a potato...."

Quilt sometimes predicts that eating things he doesn’t like will kill you, making erroneous blanket statements...
ROB: “hadn't had dairy in close to 10 months and finally binged on close to 400 grams of sour cream daily for three days, and I feel great.”
Quilt: “I say eat it.......It will keep me busy down the road...Dairy equal insulin and eventually insulin leads to death. The great circle of life encapsulated.”
Lee: “But doc...full fat, heavy cream for instance, doesnt spike insulin, does it?”
Ikco: “Dairy isn't dairy. Source and type matter enormously. And scare tactics are just lame.”

So I’m looking for some input. Given the type of information I found above, how should I approach the Quilt’s ideas? Sorry if the post sounded antagonistic, but these are simply the facts that I found using a google search and a paleohacks search. I am genuinely interested in what people’s views are on this. Quilt is providing a potentially useful and absolutely free source of information, but I want to know how much I can trust that information, given what I found above (which presumably is just a small slice of what’s out there).

EDIT & NOTE BY PATRIK: I DON'T THINK IS AN APPROPRIATE TOPIC FOR PALEOHACKS GIVEN ITS EMOTIONAL & SUBJECTIVE NATURE. I WILL LEAVE THIS THREAD UP FOR NOW BUT DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A PILE-ON HATE-FEST AGAINST THE QUILT. PLEASE WATCH YOUR EMOTION & LANGUAGE & DON'T BE MEAN. :)

edited May 19 2012 at 6:58

Kamal♦

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16 revisions, 7 users
mari 82%

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Are you sure you're in High School? If so, you're like Dougie Howser smart. Oh wait, you're prolly too young to know who he is. :) – none Nov 1 2011 at 22:53

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Wow. This is why I'm glad I don't follow any particular guru. My body so far has been great about giving me strong feedback, so when something works or doesn't work, I don't have to check what so-and-so said in the book or on the blog. People, keep being contrarian and independent-minded; don't depend on ANYBODY (not even the universally well-liked and popular figureheads) to figure out your own body. Nobody has your best interests at heart like you do, and nobody knows what it's like to be you better than you. – Rose Nov 1 2011 at 23:04

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How to know that you're on PH too much: You witnessed nearly all of these exchanges. Good times. – Travis Culp♦ Nov 1 2011 at 23:33

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I say we test his nipple massage hypothesis ourselves. Ladies, after you. – Stabby Nov 1 2011 at 23:48

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I find this type of hack disingenuous as it is clearly anti-Quilt and yet pretends to be neutral. Don't hide behind the faux "oh hey guys I'm not sure if he's unreliable.." while directly quoting and highlighting in bold all the times Quilt is clearly unreliable. Just call the guy out if you think he's full of crap. Personally, I think he's full of crap. – RJ100 Nov 2 2011 at 15:35

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Travis Culp · Answer 1 · 2011-11-03 03:55:41Z UTC

If you want free advice, you get exactly what you pay for.

That being said, I do have a question about the Leptin RX (which seems to not jive with my very limited understanding of biochemistry) specifically: If your aim is to increase the perception of leptin by the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus, why would you recommend carbohydrate restriction when it results in a drastic reduction in circulating leptin?

http://www.springerlink.com/index/UVUHPQH4UMUVE6VJ.pdf

Even if this protocol greatly enhanced leptin sensitivity, the individual would be working with a substantial leptin handicap. Since Dr. Kruse is himself VLC as far as I know, there isn't even an implicit recommendation to increase carbs once this protocol does its magic unless Dr. Kruse is implying that he himself is still leptin resistant and is still working on correcting it. If that's the case, then we might question this protocol's efficacy. Looking it over, I don't see why it would be ineffective for weight loss (and certainly the many mini-informercial testimonials we see here are at least partially legitimate), but lots of things result in weight loss without addressing leptin sensitivity.

For what it's worth, I personally suspect that leptin resistance (and thus perhaps obesity itself) is the result of excitotoxic substances like the supraphysiological doses of free glutamic acid from MSG or equivalents and aspartic acid from aspartame etc. that many people today ingest that damage the leptin receptors of the hypothalamus (which isn't protected by the blood-brain barrier). As such, if I were to construct a protocol aimed at restoring leptin sensitivity, it would be built around the absolute avoidance of these compounds in the hope that these receptors could be repaired.

http://journals.lww.com/neuroreport/Abstract/1999/04260/The_arcuate_nucleus_is_pivotal_in_mediating_the.5.aspx

http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v16/n8/abs/oby2008274a.html

Edit: Quilt is on AttacKruse-Control and calling me out for making up that he's VLC. I knew I had read it somewhere: http://paleohacks.com/questions/47258/what-are-some-of-your-magic-tricks-in-your-paleo-lifestyle-that-youd-like-to-s/47278#47278

I also eat a fairly low carb diet. Most days below fifty grams……most below 25 grams of carbs.

I'd sure as hell call that VLC.

I can't keep track of all of the changes that someone makes to their diet. You know I haven't read everything he's written because I'm not in a padded cell. So, he's decided to synch his carb up to the position of Earth in it's revolution around the Sun. Lovely. I've never heard of a single other soul on this planet doing that, so as you might expect I didn't account for that possibility. This is why I said "as far as I know" (now bolded) above.

Adam Crafter · Answer 2 · 2011-11-02 20:28:38Z UTC

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I'm interested in hearing all that he has to say, but hate having to puzzle out the meaning of his typos.

I know that I need a editor sometimes.

I'm kind of surprised that with the freedom to edit that is built into PH, that there are not more people following around some of more prolific and typo-prone people JUST FIXING IT as we all go along.

answered Nov 2 2011 at 20:28

Adam Crafter

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No......it makes others feel better to tear down others instead of helping the other tribe. This is how the tribe rolls adam. Get with it. Remember it is patriks joint! Plus one by the way. – The Quilt Nov 2 2011 at 21:00

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I only edit typos in the titles of threads. Makes the board look a little cleaner, making for a better impression on people who are new to the scene. – Paul Nov 2 2011 at 21:38

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Sorry, the Loon, it is impossible for me to edit a comment. – Paul Nov 2 2011 at 22:03

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I think it is important to leave the quality of someone's writing intact, because it can help a person judge the credibility of the source. I'll edit tags or titles for search, though. – Ambimorph Dec 8 2011 at 18:18

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Jeff · Answer 3 · 2011-11-02 01:39:12Z UTC

So many points raised, I have noticed one other thing worth bringing up that I see in Quilt as well as other progressive/forward thinking clinicians...

They formulate theories that may well be correct but aren't able to prove them inconclusively. Clinical experience shows them what works and doesn't work, and the community will then scrutinize their reasoning regardless of whether the results show success. Lustig also comes to mind, as well as some people I have firsthand experience with who aren't known on a national level.

This is the difference between researcher and clinician, and when clinicians write things they are highly scrutinized.

and a joke to help summarize this whole issue

"What's the difference between a surgeon and God?"

"God doesn't think he's a surgeon"

The Loon · Answer 4 · 2011-11-02 01:48:44Z UTC

I'll just add a little bit to Eric's answer by saying that I don't think the re-broadcast of ideas without cites is intentional. I have read things that DrK has written here and there, and they sound alot like what I had written. Did he copy me? Did we draw from the same well? I wrote something about Gary Taubes on the Dr. Oz show, and a few months later Taubes wrote something similar. Did he copy me? Probably not, we're both just clever. My impression of DrK is that he is much more concerned with the overall flow and interconnection with ideas, and less so dotting the i's and crossing the T's, is it 56% reduction, 57% reduction? And there are some very uncreative minions who demand that he behave another way, in a more "respectable" way. They throw out "do you have a cite for that" like street thugs roughing up pedestrians who have the temerity to cross their little street corner without payment. Universities and research centers are full of people who can't seem to move one foot in front of the other without checking pubmed. They just can't stand it when someone comes along, leaping, dancing around, doing it all wrong. We would never move forward on anything without people like this. Now as for me, I didn't wait around for pubmed to tell me it was OK to eat the way DrK recommends. YMMV, and that's ok. If his ideas are total crap, he'll either change them, or eventually be run out of town. Let's hope he doesn't get run out on a technicality. That would be bad for everyone.

Geoff · Answer 5 · 2011-11-02 03:37:00Z UTC

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Im not sure about the science behind it but I switched from IF to eating 50+ grams of protein within 30 min of waking and do notice that Im much more alert in the morning and have more energy during the day. That said, he comes across like an egomaniac sometimes but I take it with a grain of salt

answered Nov 2 2011 at 3:37

Geoff

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Exactly my thoughts. I've seen responses at at PH that are extensively worded trying tto clarify people with distraught health thoughts and extremely complicated questions. he is ONE of the only MDs that I've come across who has said that doesn't matter how many degrees are after your name. SO TRUE. – grace Nov 2 2011 at 6:12

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I'd trust a PaleoHacker like Travis, Meredith, Rogue, Nutritionator, Aravind, Kamal, HappyNow, DRAGONFLY, EVa, Matthew and H*LL even cliff before 99% of physicians... no joke. – grace Nov 2 2011 at 6:14

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Whoa- how is it even possible I was mentioned here? Holy crap. I mean that sincerely. – none Nov 3 2011 at 0:03

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u r smart duh. . – Kamal♦ Nov 3 2011 at 0:27

August · Answer 6 · 2011-11-02 16:06:28Z UTC

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And, yet again, the noise here at PH is rather louder than the signal. Reading Jack is, at the very least, good for generating an idea or two, which turns out to be the point. We need ideas we can test (hopefully with relative safety).

answered Nov 2 2011 at 16:06

August

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Allie · Answer 7 · 2011-11-02 16:21:17Z UTC

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Aw shucks. I just want to get everyone around a big campfire, cook some meat, and make everything hunky-dory ... this cavewoman isn't a fan of conflict ... * sigh * .... * goes to start a campfire *

answered Nov 2 2011 at 16:21

Allie

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Dittos, I just try to let the annoying things roll off. I have wine in my backpack to go with the fire and actually remembered the corkscrew. * gathers wood * – jesuisjuba - paleorepublic.com Nov 2 2011 at 16:32

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I'll have a glass of Argentine Malbec, ;>), please. Maybe make it a double, since I might be the only person here who has actually been a paying patient of Dr. K's. – AdrianaG Nov 3 2011 at 8:11

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Woohoo welcom Kamal! * hands a parcel of sticks * For the paleo marshmallows AdrianaG wants .... Heya AdrianaG :). – Allie Nov 3 2011 at 23:00

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Harlekini · Answer 8 · 2011-11-03 01:57:33Z UTC

Answering to the title, my thought on the quilt; are that one should think for themselves. I'm right now following three of his advices, taking magnesium, sleeping, and the BAB. It has helped me tremendously, since I used to eat constantly and be hungry at the same time. I don't follow him religiously and I haven't taken the tests he recommends, but I'm the best judge of my own health. I appreciate him a lot because I have been fed falsehoods throughout my life about nutrition, leading me to become a vegetarian at 12, which took a lot from me and led to absolutely no good. So I really like that its a polar perspective and also that it works. But I'm not going to swallow anything whole and follow it blindly, since that would be the same as what I did with vegetarianism. I think it's good to critisize with an opposing opinion (such as "it's not leptin! It's dopamine!") but I also see a lot of unnecessary whining in this shitstorm. Were not children, and this is not dr.oz. We have all been jaded by the conventional wisdom so we should think more for ourselves, and also be understanding that dr. Kruse's ideas might not be fully developed. The truth is also that science does not yet have all the answers, so all side of the arguments are more or less theories and hypotheses. It's always easier to critisize than to do something about it.

The Quilt · Answer 9 · 2011-11-13 01:51:07Z UTC

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Thanks for all the nice thoughts.

edited Nov 13 2011 at 1:51

The Quilt

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The Quilt is woven out of kevlar :) – Kamal♦ Nov 2 2011 at 20:11

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I think Quilt is showing more maturity than a number of the critics who foamed at the mouth while typing comments on this thread. – Nance Nov 2 2011 at 20:23

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There are a few disingenuous people here......they have asked for things i would not give. I have a choice. My goal is not to help PH. Its to get docs to help treat the inhabitants of ph when they need us. There is a huge difference. I like helping people even if they dont understand how i do it. There is a huge disconnect here. People dont come to my office and ask me how i clip an aneurysm or perform a fusion or discectomy before they decide what to do. They want to know how to get better and never ask about how to put a screw in or how to open a head. Only here we do this and not – The Quilt Nov 2 2011 at 20:52

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Loon may have been making a subtle and complimentary joke. I've seen this type of very subtle joke from Loon before. Quite skillful. – Kamal♦ Nov 3 2011 at 0:19

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Great call, Kamal. For casual readers who haven't visited the site, there are no ads. There's no book. There's no seminar. There's no monthly subscription. There's no little paypal donate button. There's no ad you have to sit through before you get the blog. You don't have to sign up for a newsletter and have your e-mail clogged with junk. You don't have to "like" him on facebook in order to read it, in fact, you don't have to like any of it at all. – The Loon Nov 3 2011 at 1:11

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Henry S · Answer 10 · 2011-11-02 02:29:15Z UTC

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I've been doing Paleo on and off for 5 months and want to input just how amazed I am at the dynamics on this website. I know this isn't an answer but see lots of arguments here and just want to be appreciative of this valuable resource. :)

answered Nov 2 2011 at 2:29

Henry S

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Eugenia · Answer 11 · 2011-11-02 20:33:29Z UTC

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I personally like Dr K, even if he might be wrong. I don't have the faintest idea if he's right or not about the stuff he claims, since I'm not a doctor, but the impresion I got from him is this: he's passionate about what he does, he genuinely believes what he writes & claims, and he does study to learn more about all sort of things. The real problem is that he mixes & matches stuff in his head, sometimes correctly, sometimes not. This is why I usually do take in what he says, but I only implement half (or 1/3) of what he suggests. In other words, he's an individual that he's best taken with a grain of salt, but I do believe that there is some truth in some of the things he writes. The difficulty is: which ones?

answered Nov 2 2011 at 20:33

Eugenia

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Quilt - you obviously didn't read what I wrote here - paleohacks.com/questions/74337/… – Aravind Nov 2 2011 at 21:09

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Quilt- you accidentally stumbled upon something there. The one person on that list who is always 100% correct is Matthew. In my time here, I've never seen anything from him that is false, an exaggeration, or a logical fallacy. Must be something in the water out in Scotland. – Kamal♦ Nov 2 2011 at 21:13

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@Kamal: Oh no...you have stumbled upon my secret... – Matt Nov 2 2011 at 22:17

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@Quilt - So you do lie? Any ounce of credibility that you have had left from me has just been lost there. You are either A. Lying yourself because you are embarrassed at the uncovering of your not so factual facts, or even worse, B. You have been lying on a public forum to annoy people despite knowing that a lot of people have trust in you and will read those comments as truth! That's awful! – Carly Nov 3 2011 at 11:57

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and potentially dangerous. – Carly Nov 3 2011 at 11:58

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mth · Answer 12 · 2011-11-03 00:29:49Z UTC

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I'm loving how paleohacks is turning into a crappy version of high school.

Patrick, please delete my account.

I have not contributed nearly to the degree of The Quilt, many of his supporters, and most of his detractors and therefore will not be missed.

There have been a few threads lately that have moved me toward non-participation and less frequent visiting of this site. Those other threads are typically the vegans and vegetarians are idiots. This one and the other Quilt thread are different in that they are calling out a person that is far more knowledgeable than most of his detractors (me included) in a personal way.

answered Nov 3 2011 at 0:29

mth

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Wrong. You asked the most famous question ever on paleohacks ("Hack my wife's vagina") and had the funniest homeopathy reply ("I just bought all the homeopathy cures at the local health food store and poured them down the toilet. Now the entire Great Lakes system will cure everyone immediately..."). You will be missed more than at least 72% of paleohackers. Sad to see you go! – Kamal♦ Nov 3 2011 at 0:39

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you guys realize that if enough people vote to close, the question will close? It takes 5 close votes to close the question. The moderators are humans and we don't always know what questions should be closed. Most of us were unsure about this question, but if we vote at all, it closes automatically and there is no community input. Help us out by voting/flagging etc. instead of complaining. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Nov 3 2011 at 0:40

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High school is way crappier than this. This would barely qualify as drama. But I still see your point. – mari Nov 3 2011 at 1:48

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mari, you will be happy when you get to Harvard and surround yourself with intellectual equals. But douchebags too. Don't forget the douchebags. – Kamal♦ Nov 3 2011 at 1:53

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Of course, the ever present douchebags. Hard to forget for sure. – mari Nov 3 2011 at 2:09

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steveo · Answer 13 · 2011-11-04 13:26:55Z UTC

I shouldn't reply.. but hmmm Oh Well here are a couple things.

I think a lot of you are missing or forgetting the points of why he does all that he does...

1st point is to help ppl get to the point of Optimal health... sure Paleo was easy, before he came along. His version is out there to help us get to a place where we can repair our body chemistry.. it IS hard, getting back Optimal Health is hard. I am sure that is why he makes the food/supplement suggestions he does. I am sure lots of us could coast along with a generic Paleo Lifestyle and do really good, better than most of the population even... but if you want OPTIMAL, some things need to change, timing needs to change, deficiencies addressed, thinking needs to change. We need a guy like him to come in and shake up our cozy little world.

2nd point.. he wants to slap the Medical Establishment. They need it... for God's sake most of them can't even diagnose Thyroid problems correctly. They need a huge slap in the face, they need a guy like Dr Jack to be caustic with them and slap them around a LOT.

This might not be the best forum, to accomplish all that, but it is kind of addicting to read this site, even though there plenty of sanctimonious idiots here, I can see why he keeps coming back.

On a side note... there are a lots of people who are doing really good with his ideas. They are enjoying better health and recovering very nicely from years of abuse from the SAD.

Sue · Answer 14 · 2011-11-02 06:56:14Z UTC

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Dr BG you must have just read Quilt's nice responses!! What are your thoughts on his leptin reset?

answered Nov 2 2011 at 6:56

Sue

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I try to read a lot of the smartypants here and Kruse writes a ton so I don't catch everything unless someone reposts. The leptin reset makes sense from reading Eades, Bryon and others, not that I get it all. The Rx is ridiculously brilliant and insane. And it works. I'm doing it bc I become chunkylicious recently from stress, adrenals (being~ single mom, moving, etc) and the Rx is good for adrenals. As suggested I do 25g carbs or more in the AM. Lost 1kg already in 1 wk but I also like to work out. Depending on how poopy the adrenals are, no exercise is probably best. – grace Nov 2 2011 at 7:20

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My husband thinks we do too much meat but this is the beauty why it works very effectively. 50 g is like 7 eggs, 2 big ch breasts, or a chunk of lamb, beef, or pork. I do organic rice, fruit, potatoes, or chocolate for the carbs which help augment the insulin without causing me to chase crwvings and high insulin all day... good luck and I hope to hear more about ur story later! – grace Nov 2 2011 at 7:24

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Jules · Answer 15 · 2011-11-03 01:23:38Z UTC

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He does come across as full of himself, however, it took me 2 seconds to find info on Pubmed about leptin and lipodystrophy. Makes me wonder what else you said about him isn't true. See "Leptin-replacement therapy for lipodystrophy" N Engl J Med. 2002 Feb 21;346(8):570-8. When criticizing someone you should get your facts straight don't you think? :)

answered Nov 3 2011 at 1:23

Jules

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because in the thread that is referenced, "quilt" implied HIV infection ---->leptin dysfunction----->lipodystrophy. and thats not the mechanism. when he was questioned, per usual his condescending reply was to just look it up. – being Nov 3 2011 at 1:51

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Quilt did say "Leptin control [sic] fat disposition in body parts. This is why women have curves and men dont." While body fat tends to increase relative to leptin (women have higher circulating leptin levels than men) it's not at all clear that leptin controls the difference in fat deposition between men and women. That appears to be due to sex hormones. (source: krepublishers.com/02-Journals/JLS/…) – Katherine Nov 3 2011 at 2:19

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Sorry, but no it doesn't say that.....You INFERRED HIV infection = leptin dysfunction. Don't twist it around just to try and rack up points against the man. – Jules Nov 3 2011 at 2:21

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Maybe Jack would be willing to explain what he meant. Here is the exact quote:"Moreover, people with dosordered leptin function have major body comp and fat deposit issues. See any HIV patient as a great example of the other side of this coin." To me, it sounds like he's saying a problem with leptin regulation or sensitivity means that there will necessarily be a problem with the amount and placement of body fat. The term "the other side of the coin" could mean "the opposite example". What I think he meant was that "on one hand, leptin problems can mean extreme weight gain – Katherine Nov 3 2011 at 2:38

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...and unusual patterns of fat distribution of that excess fat and on the extreme other end, one could point to the example of the extreme weight loss associated weight loss of HIV" – Katherine Nov 3 2011 at 2:39

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Katherine · Answer 16 · 2011-12-29 16:33:59Z UTC

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Seems like maybe something along the lines of "somewhere I once read..." or "someone once said..." would do the trick nicely. Just another perspective.

answered Dec 29 2011 at 16:33

Katherine

community wiki

4

I could see that with some of the short snappy phrases like "Chase beauty. Adore mastery," but it appears that in some of the longer passages that the phrasing is so precise to the original that he must have been looking at the original when he copied them, not just going off a remembered phrase or quote of a forgotten source. To look up a passage in somebody else's book and then pass it off as your own writing is pretty bad. If he has that person's book open in front of him - why not credit them? – Paleo2.0 Dec 29 2011 at 18:17

Betsy · Answer 17 · 2012-02-21 21:35:43Z UTC

Here's a typical example of Dr. Kruse's failure to cite:

From his blog in answer to a reader's question.

Pat Says:

February 17th, 2012 at 8:19 am Am I correct that Pregnenolone converts to DHEA? Would Pregnenolone supplementation work better or not as well as direct DHEA supplentation? My DHEA levels are good for my age (61) but I’ve been told that I should shoot for levels of a 40 y.o. male. I tend to run high E2.

Jack Says:

February 17th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

@Pat Going to make your head hurt………The biosynthesis of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) from cholesterol involves only two enzymes, both cytochrome P450s. The conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone is mediated by cholesterol side-chain cleavage enzyme (CYP11A1), which is found in the mitochondria. The cleavage of pregnenolone to DHEA requires both the 17alpha-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase activities of CYP17, which is found in the endoplasmic reticulum. These conversions require pairs of electron transfer proteins or redox partners, which are adrenodoxin and adrenodoxin reductase for CYP11A1 and cytochrome P450-oxidoreductase and cytochrome b5 for CYP17. In addition, the steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein regulates the flux of cholesterol into the biosynthetic pathway and represents the mechanism of acute regulation. Finally, in addition to possessing CYP11A1 and CYP17, it is equally important that a steroidogenic cell not contain other enzymes that drain the flux of pregnenolone to DHEA. These characteristics are illustrated by the fetal adrenal cortex and the zona reticularis, which are dedicated to the synthesis of DHEA and DHEA-sulfate.

From PubMed:

Overview of dehydroepiandrosterone biosynthesis. Auchus RJ. SourceDivision of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine, UT Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, Texas 75390-8857, USA. richard.auchus@UTSouthwestern.edu

Abstract The biosynthesis of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) from cholesterol involves only two enzymes, both cytochrome P450s. The conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone is mediated by cholesterol side-chain cleavage enzyme (CYP11A1), which is found in the mitochondria. The cleavage of pregnenolone to DHEA requires both the 17alpha-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase activities of CYP17, which is found in the endoplasmic reticulum. These conversions require pairs of electron transfer proteins or redox partners, which are adrenodoxin and adrenodoxin reductase for CYP11A1 and cytochrome P450-oxidoreductase and cytochrome b5 for CYP17. In addition, the steroidogenic acute regulatory (StAR) protein regulates the flux of cholesterol into the biosynthetic pathway and represents the mechanism of acute regulation. Finally, in addition to possessing CYP11A1 and CYP17, it is equally important that a steroidogenic cell not contain other enzymes that drain the flux of pregnenolone to DHEA. These characteristics are illustrated by the fetal adrenal cortex and the zona reticularis, which are dedicated to the synthesis of DHEA and DHEA-sulfate.

Comment in Semin Reprod Med. 2004 Nov;22(4):279-80. PMID:15635496[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Dr Cate · Answer 18 · 2012-03-04 18:19:00Z UTC

Jack Kruse is a neurosurgeon. If he were to focus his abundant mental energy on neurologic improvement via diet, with his title and good looks he could potentially make big waves in the real media world (the Dr Oz of neurology) by working with returning soldiers who have TBI and spinal cord injuries who are right now being fed fructose and trans fat.

IMO.

LisaAPB · Answer 19 · 2011-11-04 15:38:45Z UTC

5

holy asshattery! You mean to tell me that the Quilt is HUMAN?!

answered Nov 4 2011 at 15:38

LisaAPB

community wiki

5

Lol......plus one. – The Quilt Nov 4 2011 at 15:51

score 3 · Answer 20 · 2011-11-04 12:49:06Z UTC

3

Hey Quilt! The pioneers get the arrows and the settlers get the land!

answered Nov 4 2011 at 12:49

edrice

community wiki

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Not very fair on the Indians... – Matt Nov 4 2011 at 13:08

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Who said anything about Indians? This was a worldwide phenomenon going back into paleo times. – edrice Nov 4 2011 at 13:44

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Plus one edrice. – The Quilt Nov 4 2011 at 15:51

The Quilt · Answer 21 · 2011-11-13 01:54:31Z UTC

3

I think this thread says it all about this tribe keep it rolling MODS!

edited Nov 13 2011 at 1:54

The Quilt

community wiki

2 revisions

17

lol, yeah Quilt, it's all about you. That's really what I think you're failing to perceive in people's questioning of your means. A lot of the time, you skim, you blow over things and still, you recommend very specific things. Theres a thread on MDA where you mistake ED (EATING DISORDER) for ED Erectile Dysfunction after some woman leaves you a 4 paragraph post. He's DigitalSurgeon marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread40491.html you never even bothered to fully read her post! If you're skimming things and not fully reading them, maybe you shouldn't be giving advice as a doctor. – tartare Nov 2 2011 at 22:06

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I mean, you mention all the time how you're a neurosurgeon and doctor. – tartare Nov 2 2011 at 22:07

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To me you smack of first and foremost, self importance and self aggrandizement. If you don't agree with this point of view, you should perhaps re-assess the way you go about things. It's pretty clear that a lot of people are bothered by more than your grammar or your disjointed thinking. What a lot of people are bothered by is that you advertise LOUDLY that you're a doctor, and that you've done so much research and yet, whenever you answer someone, you don't pay attention to what you're doing. – tartare Nov 2 2011 at 22:10

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If you're so busy in your clinic that you don't have time to say something cohesive and meaningful, maybe you should reassess what is the most constructive thing for you to do, and, in fact, limit yourself to actually being a clinician. That or just start posting as Joe Blow Anybody, Not an MD. – tartare Nov 2 2011 at 22:12

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You're thinking about and possibly keeping records for length of threads on internet forums and blogs? LOL, shine on you crazy diamond. – Anonymous Chump Nov 3 2011 at 0:53

show 24 more comments

Kasra · Answer 22 · 2012-05-20 02:00:33Z UTC

After experimenting with his recommendations, I have reached the conclusion that Jack Kruse seems to consistently advocate for a hypothyroid state. If you are most concerned with quality of life, don't bother with Jack.

That said, a lower resting metabolism may confer greater longevity, though it comes at the price of feeling like shit all the time.

ThinnerStrength · Answer 23 · 2012-10-07 19:37:37Z UTC

Regarding nipple stimulation:

The stimulation of a woman's nipples promotes the production and release of oxytocin and prolactin. During the stimulation of the nipples, large amounts of oxytocin are released, which would normally prepare the breast for breastfeeding. Besides creating maternal feelings in a woman, it also decreases her anxiety, increases human bonding and trust.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulation_of_nipples Levin R, Meston C (May 2006). "Nipple/Breast stimulation and sexual arousal in young men and women". The Journal of Sexual Medicine 3 (3): 450–4. doi:10.1111/j.1743-6109.2006.00230.x. PMID 16681470. ^ "Physiologic Mechanism of Nipple Stimulation". Medscape Today from WebMD. Retrieved 2010-11-20.

Oxytocin inhibits proliferation of human breast cancer cell lines. Cassoni P, Sapino A, Negro F, Bussolati G. Source

Department of Biomedical Sciences and Oncology, University of Turin, Italy. Abstract In this study we show that treatment of MDA-MB231 hormone-independent human breast cancer cells with oxytocin (OT) or with the OT analogue F314 induces significant growth inhibition together with a change in cell phenotype. In MCF7 and T47D human breast cancer cells, OT inhibits oestrogen-induced cell growth. In these same cells, OT administration significantly enhances the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on cell proliferation. MDA-MB231, MCF7 and T47D cells all express mRNA specific for the OT receptor. These data suggest that it may be possible to inhibit breast cancer growth using OT and OT analogues.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7850070

raydawg · Answer 24 · 2011-11-13 00:03:44Z UTC

0

Now I know the answer to the question Dr. Who? It's Quilt!

answered Nov 13 2011 at 0:03

raydawg

community wiki

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Aussiebloke · Answer 25 · 2012-03-08 06:12:56Z UTC

0

I think he is so far ahead of the bell curve in terms of achieving optimal that it's quite scary. I think paleo eating and living is only one piece of a larger puzzle.

answered Mar 8 2012 at 6:12

Aussiebloke

community wiki

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Al88 · Answer 26 · 2012-05-20 01:52:39Z UTC

0

Rather than nipple massage, take a strong stance on breastfeeding. Not enough doctors do that! The new AAP revision says breastfeeding for 12 months reduces breast cancer by 25-28%. I know there is a number for 24 months as well I came across in school.

answered May 20 2012 at 1:52

Al88

community wiki

Thoughts on Dr. Jack Kruse? (aka The Quilt)

56 Answers

I'm kind of surprised that with the freedom to edit that is built into PH, that there are not more people following around some of more prolific and typo-prone people JUST FIXING IT as we all go along.