Yep 80%. So are you strict paleo or sisson-esque primal? well based on a poll that I asked paleo people on google plus, twitter, robbwolf forum and MDA forum it appears that most people are walking down the more dairy tolerant path of Mark Sisson. 83 responded. 69 include Dairy in their diet.
My rough conclusion:
No grains, dairy, legumes are at one end the bell curve in the minority, dairy is in the middle of bell curve along with the rice every now and again crowd and those who dabble in all three G,D&L are at the other end of the bell curve.
So hack my survey* results! are they totally skewed and rubbish? or is dairy really such a big player? One thing I think about is: how pure is the dairy source for most people? is it the grassfed raw kind, or are people just making do with conventional dairy due to cost and access issues?
I predict the dairy will be the next big thing to really go under the microscope in the paleosphere, the carbs and fats have been well prodded and debated. Dairy is next for the fine tooth comb....or maybe not.
*my poll was non scientific and relied on the honesty of respondents - but hey, we are honest people in the paleo word, aren't we?
Maybe folks are more interested in a functional enjoyable diet more than some badge of honor for being 100% compliant with a set of dietary rules. The need to avoid dairy 100% is more with the folks who have significant auto-immunity problems, lactose intolerance and dairy allergies. If you're free of these conditions, you're likely going to have no trouble with a moderate amount of dairy, even commercial dairy from A1 cattle.
I think Mark Sisson has positioned dairy at the right spot in the "do this to be healthier"/paleo spectrum. Along side legumes and "mild" grains.
Matt said "Maybe folks are more interested in a functional enjoyable diet more than some badge of honor for being 100% compliant with a set of dietary rules."
I think this is an important observation. It seems to be one of the key attributes of our ancestors was adaptability. How else do you end up with Inuit and Kitavans?
To me, very rigid adherence to minute dietary rules is more a religious thing than anything else. Whether you're Jewish, Muslim, vegan, or one of our paleo brothers letting his free-range chicken rot a little bit before eating it. Such lifestyles have merits. But those merits-- to me-- beyond a certain point seem to have very little to do with physiology or an acceptance of how we're designed, and everything to do with moral codes.
To me it's about slowly and patiently discovering what works for me, without being a total tool about it to myself and everyone around me. If that means eating an ear of corn every once in a while because it tastes freaking awesome, so be it. If that means eating some galumpke my 95 year-old grandmom helped make even though it has bread in the filling, okeedokee.
You know what's funny, though? That ALL said, I think I'm considering eliminating the dairy...so intuitively I think there might be something to the observation that dairy is the dividing line between strict and casual paleo.
I think lumping all dairy together into one all-or-nothing category is almost as meaningless as lumping together all starches, from wheat to potatoes to rice. When you "put dairy under a microscope," the first thing you see is that there's a big difference between dairy fat and dairy sugar/protein, raw/cooked/fermented, type A/B, grass/grain-fed, and so on. There's a big difference between eating raw butter you made from cream from your own grass-fed cow, versus drinking 2% pasteurized milk from the store -- maybe as big a difference at that between eating wheat pasta or a sweet potato. I suspect that many people here who would answer that they "eat dairy" wouldn't touch 90% of what's in the supermarket dairy case.
I'm Lacto-Paleo (4 1/2 years now!) and I never gave up dairy simply because I like it (same reason I never gave up alcohol). But the amount of dairy I eat is minimal. I havent drunk milk in 5 years, I use heavy cream in my coffee one day a week (tea the other days), rarely use butter, and eat maybe an oz of cheese a day.
All that being said, I gave up all nightshades and all fruit 4 1/2 years ago and have never touched any/either since.
I think that's what I love about Paleo - it's sooooo adaptable. :)
Ppl who talk about low-carb / primal / paleo being "boring" and "too restrictive" are idiots!
I don't really care one way or the other about including dairy--I've never been a huge milk, cheese or ice cream fan, even as a kid and it leaves a nasty aftertaste. Every great once in a while I'll add a dash of heavy cream to my coffee, or use butter in a recipe, but otherwise it's no big stretch for me to eliminate it from my diet.
I was strict Paleo for about 6 months. Now on occasion (like, once a month), I'll indulge in some naan bread when I eat Indian, or some rice with sushi (a little more often--few times a month), or when I eat Cuban I'll have some black beans & rice. The bread has the most noticeable effect, with bloating and an all-around feeling of "blah", so I try not to overdo it.
I'm in the camp that includes nightshades and tubers, because I can't understand why we'd have the starch-digesting enzyme amylase in our saliva (6-8x higher in humans than in chimps) if we hadn't evolved to digest those kinds of foods.
I started out with an extremely heavy pastured butter consumption and have since cut out all dairy. I simply don't believe in innocuous hypercholesterolemia anymore. Additionally, many cheeses trigger reactive hypoglycemia for me, I never liked milk, and I don't really notice a negative difference by using macadamia nut oil for the occasional fried steak or whatever.
I'd say though that if you feel good consuming it and it doesn't appear to cause any health marker aberrations, then there's no reason to avoid it.
I struggle with dairy, not because I'm trying to be more "Paleo," but because it causes digestive problems and bloating for me. And bingeing behavior. Just as with coffee, my answer really would be "depends on when you ask me." Right now I've been dairy-free for four days, after a month and a half or so that saw me guzzling down a pint of heavy cream or more a day. Sigh.
Interestingly, I'd reckon that since starting this woe four years ago, I've probably had dairy about 80% of the time, with me trying to kick it 20%. No grains that whole time, though, and no legumes for the last two years.
The dairy I use is butter (usually either KerryGold or Organic Valley Pasture Butter), some ghee*, full fat greek yogurt, goat milk kefir, cream in my coffee (occasionally), cheese, and Kolona SuperNatural whole milk (lightly pasteurized, at one point I thought the milk was sourced from grass fed cows but I can't find that claim lately, and not homogenized) in my protein shakes. Oh, and protein shakes, whey and casein. I'm actually trying to transition to getting more of my protein needs from foods. I'll likely get casein from cottage cheese. Kolona makes some that I'm quite fond of.
I'll also eat rice - usually sushi rice, either with sushi/sashimi, or all day long by itself if I've got a triathlon the next day.
I don't do legumes.
I get the impression that there are many more people for whom "dairy" is not a monolithic and who believe that butter/ghee is quite different from something like milk. I don't consume things like milk or heavy cream, as they upset my stomach, but have butter/ghee somewhat often because I get benefits from the butyric acid. Cheese and yogurt are grey areas for me, I'm sure they are better than unfermented dairy, but I don't eat them every day.
The premise of pale is in a sense to know for certain what you can get away with. Most people think they can get away with dietary murder eating wheat three square meals a day, munching of sugar snacks filled with God knows what sort of unpronounceable fillers and downing it all with shots of soy oil. The paleo notion is that without abstaining from foods, you don't know how you react to them. It asks people to learn what they can really get away with. And some people can get away with murder. They can eat what they want. Most of us can't. But this is a know yourself type gig. If Paleo doesn't help you, don't do it (unless you have a predilection for longevity and compression of morbidity).
For me, I can't touch gluten and I do better when I don't touch dairy as well. Eating dairy increases general inflammation and I get a bit of backne (on the upper right shoulder only...). I eat rice, buckwheat, teff and tapioca. My fruit and sugar intake is pretty high but my pufa intake is tiny. When I skew too high on the fat I feel bogged down. I'm thinking about toying with properly prepared legumes at some point.
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