Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

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While reading several articles by Brian Peskin I began to wonder if vegetables are actually that great for you. Peskin claims fiber is bad for colon health and not helpful in cancer prevention. Also, the data seems to indicate most vegetables now contain too many pesticides and too few nutrients to be truly beneficial to us. While researching I also ran across a blogger named Roger M. Wilcox who wrote a ranting but thought-provoking article railing against veggies. But, the embedded knowledge in our culture is that high volumes of veggies in our diets are vital to good health and weight loss. So, what do you all know about the healthfulness of vegetables? I would love links to articles or studies. Thanks!

edited Nov 9 2011 at 3:42

asked Nov 9 2011 at 3:30

vinvickery
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Interesting question! – Nance Nov 9 2011 at 3:47

Favorite question. – Annie Nov 9 2011 at 5:35

I've read this here and there as well and am very very curious about it. – Deborah105 Nov 9 2011 at 13:57

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Also see: paleohacks.com/questions/20349/… – Ambimorph Nov 9 2011 at 15:36

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Wow that Roger Wilcox Article is hilarious!! I laughed out loud when I read "vegetables are vile, unappetizing crunchy lumps of grotesquitude". It is hard to take him seriously when he is so distraught. – Senneth Nov 9 2011 at 16:38

Dragonfly · Accepted Answer · 2011-11-09 04:07:33Z UTC

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I found these blog posts by Kurt Harris thought-provoking:

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2009/11/8/do-you-believe-in-magic.html

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2009/11/10/plants-and-plant-compounds-are-not-essential-or-magic.html

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/2/28/william-munny-eats-his-vegetables.html

answered Nov 9 2011 at 4:07

Dragonfly
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Thanks for sharing! I love how Kurt puts it: Eliminate: 1) Excess linoleic acid - avoid plant oils 2) Wheat and other gluten grains - white flour is the major player in the SAD 3) Limit your Fructose to amounts within our our evolutionary experience 4) Carbohydrate- rich foods tend to displace more valuable foods from animal sources. Favor food that is defenseless when dead - favor animal products. There's the 12 steps condensed to their essence. – Eric Nov 9 2011 at 6:22

Dave S. · Answer 2 · 2011-11-09 14:26:35Z UTC

I asked a very similar question quite a while ago, which had a ton of useful information in the answers and comments. Note especially the answers and comments by Stephan-Aegis and Kamal. A lot of scientific references on the topic of veggies. Unfortunately, Stephan-Aegis doesn't post like he used to. Man, I learned a lot from him!

http://paleohacks.com/questions/10208/are-vegetables-good-or-bad-or-neutral#axzz1dDSBa7JQ

There is so much going on in that thread, that it would be unwise for me to summarize it here...

Beth-WeightMaven · Answer 3 · 2011-11-09 11:52:26Z UTC

I think the return on investment of industrially produced fruits & vegetables is declining. Between pesticides, other pathogens (listeria from cantaloupe), and reduced micronutrients from soil depletion, it's certainly giving me some pause.

That said, I find the hormetic benefits of vegetables (also from Kurt Harris) idea intriguing. And truth be told, I just like them as parts of my meals. So I try and go local and/or organic as much as possible.

Ambimorph · Answer 4 · 2011-11-09 15:36:08Z UTC

Here's a study that I find interesting and relevant:

Green tea extract only affects markers of oxidative status postprandially: lasting antioxidant effect of flavonoid-free diet. Never mind the title. Here is the abstract, emphasis mine:

Epidemiological studies suggest that foods rich in flavonoids might reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer. The objective of the present study was to investigate the effect of green tea extract (GTE) used as a food antioxidant on markers of oxidative status after dietary depletion of flavonoids and catechins. The study was designed as a 2 x 3 weeks blinded human cross-over intervention study (eight smokers, eight non-smokers) with GTE corresponding to a daily intake of 18.6 mg catechins/d. The GTE was incorporated into meat patties and consumed with a strictly controlled diet otherwise low in flavonoids. GTE intervention increased plasma antioxidant capacity from 1.35 to 1.56 (P<0.02) in postprandially collected plasma, most prominently in smokers. The intervention did not significantly affect markers in fasting blood samples, including plasma or haemoglobin protein oxidation, plasma oxidation lagtime, or activities of the erythrocyte superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase, glutathione reductase and catalase. Neither were fasting plasma triacylglycerol, cholesterol, alpha-tocopherol, retinol, beta-carotene, or ascorbic acid affected by intervention. Urinary 8-oxo-deoxyguanosine excretion was also unaffected. Catechins from the extract were excreted into urine with a half-life of less than 2 h in accordance with the short-term effects on plasma antioxidant capacity. Since no long-term effects of GTE were observed, the study essentially served as a fruit and vegetables depletion study. The overall effect of the 10-week period without dietary fruits and vegetables was a decrease in oxidative damage to DNA, blood proteins, and plasma lipids, concomitantly with marked changes in antioxidative defence.

Hyperlipid has a lot to say on this issue, for example Fruit and vegetables re post .

Senneth · Answer 5 · 2011-11-09 16:12:48Z UTC

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Ray Peat talks about his take on vegetables in this article. Its an interesting read. He sticks with root veggie's.

answered Nov 9 2011 at 16:12

Senneth
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Fabian Ruiz · Answer 6 · 2011-11-09 03:50:48Z UTC

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What could possibly be bad about vegetables?....Exactly.

answered Nov 9 2011 at 3:50

Fabian Ruiz
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	Personally, I think eating a moderate amount of vegetable is good, since it is hard to obtain folate otherwise. But, there is a lot that might be wrong with them, including: 1. Excessive folate, especially when eating fortified foods, like cereals. 2. High levels of nitrates, especially when conventional fertilizers used. 3. Pesticides. 4. FODMAPs (fermentable fibers) that can cause digestive distress in some people. – Jay Nov 9 2011 at 15:42
	Eat liver for your folate... plus about every other nutrient you need. :-) – JRAC Nov 9 2011 at 17:05
	You can't eat liver every day. Well, you could but that would be unwise. – Jay Nov 10 2011 at 14:19
	You said you have to eat it everyday; you don't become lacking in folate after 24 hours. Liver once a week is perfectly adequete. – JRAC Nov 10 2011 at 22:25
	That's not true. Liver once per week does not provide nearly enough folate. One serving of beef liver contains about half of one day's worth of folate. nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3469/2 You might want to do some research before contradicting me. – Jay Nov 11 2011 at 1:14

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Lutfisk · Answer 7 · 2011-11-09 16:21:42Z UTC

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ok... then what's left to eat?

answered Nov 9 2011 at 16:21

Lutfisk
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Animal products and tubers... :-) – JRAC Nov 9 2011 at 16:43

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What a boring diet without veggies. – Sue Nov 10 2011 at 7:49

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1) No it's not; your opinion is it is. There's many people who don't like green leafy Atkins style vegetables. Historically, they're not human food. Meat and potatoes makes a wonderful meal. Rare lamb chops (spiced) with buttery mash? Yeah right... that's boring. 2) There's no need for food to be interesting. I enjoy my food but it's fuel not some kinda of treat. My food tastes amazing but you shouldn't need variety for the sake of it. Do you seriously think you need spinach, kale etc to have an interesting diet? – JRAC Nov 10 2011 at 22:31

Does anyone have information regarding the actual healthfulness of vegetables?

7 Answers