Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

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These two blog posts are what spiked my interest:

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-and-insulin.html and the response: http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-insulin-and-dr-davis.html

Taking into account these two different opinions, does anyone have any personal experiences with dairy stalling or effecting weight-loss in any way? Has anyone compared specifically the effect of milk and yogurt vs. cream and butter? Personally I can't tell just yet. I've recently added cream-top yogurt to my diet as a morning meal to replace berries to experiment with sucrose vs. lactose for weight-loss. And there are some interesting studies that claim the calcium in dairy can aid weight-loss (when studied the group that consumed high dairy excreted 10 pounds more fat in their faeces per year vs. the control) But here it's being suggested that dairy fat (perhaps even ghee if it is related to the type of fatty acid) might have an effect on insulin, which is interesting if it's true.

flag	asked Jul 29 2010 at 22:04 TaviLola 183●2●6

Consider removing the carbs? Clarify the butter and drink heavy whipping cream. – Chris Jul 30 2010 at 2:46

JP · Answer 1 · 2010-07-30 02:10:11Z UTC

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I doubt that adding butter to your food is of concern. There is more to a successful weight loss than calorie counting.

Full fat cream and butter has not stalled my progress in the gym and I'm leaner than I have ever been. If you tolerate dairy and give it a small role in your diet (not a staple food), I think you will be just fine. You will have to experiment and see for yourself.

answered Jul 30 2010 at 2:10

JP
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Telling people to add butter to their food (as the WAPF does) is not sound weight loss advice. It isn't unhealthy to eat butter, but if you are trying to lose weight, it is good to avoid butter and other high-calorie spreads. Weight loss is definitely about calories. Contrary to what the WAPF says, butter is one of the least nutritious foods. And with lower amounts of calories, nutrition is extremely important. – Stancel Jul 30 2010 at 8:07

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It's not like 2-3 tablespoon of butter will make or break your diet. What if I told you my father lost 60lbs and has been eating 3000-3500 all along? It's such a small portion of the diet that you should not focus on it (focus on bigger items instead such as the quality of your food, etc.) – JP Jul 30 2010 at 12:04

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Actually, Stancel, lots of people can lose weight with a very high calorie diet if those calories are from fat, and not carbs. Adding fat can also increase the feeling and duration of satiety. Butter is very nutritious both in terms of essential fats and micronutrients. – Ambimorph Jul 30 2010 at 14:26

Eva · Answer 2 · 2010-07-30 04:21:12Z UTC

Low carb ice cream is definitely a staller for me and also tends to stimulate cravings for more of itself. Cheese and butter are definitely NOT stallers for me. No probs with them. Heavy cream might be, not sure yet. I mostly use cream in sauces so it's not a thing were I consume it all the time. Seems that any diary that has been worked on by live cultures is fine for me. PLus butter seems fine as well. I am suspicious of things that create cravings for more of the same every day. I can drink a coconut milk smoothie with fruit tonight and enjoy it, but not really crave it tomorrow. But if I did the same with low carb icecream and fruit, then the next day, I would crave more. There is a definite difference in how my body reacts to one vs the other. The one that makes for cravings also makes for stalled weight loss. One the flip side, doesn't seem it actually adds too much weight either, must makes me stay the same instead of lose. Might be some individual variation on this one.

I have heard some say that excessive nut intake is also a staller for some and another one is cheese. For me, it seems anything I can eat twice in a row but then run out and have no special urge on the 3rd day to go to the store and buy more, is a safe thing for me to eat.
-Eva

Emily · Answer 3 · 2012-05-06 04:28:22Z UTC

Butter, cream and full fat milk is very good for you, and can assist in weight loss. You need fats to help with food digestion and non of this 'skim' nonsense! Full fat is the only way to go. Get the book Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon or 'A Forefold Path to Healing', it is explained very well in there... I have lost 5 kilos by adding butter, cream, coconut oil and full cream milk back into my diet. You just need to make sure you are not wrecking your progress by adding preservatives, hydrogenated oils, flavours, colours and other chemicals. Going organic will also help. Good luck.

PaleoGran · Answer 4 · 2010-10-22 22:33:23Z UTC

ETA:. I still eat butter, HWC, and ghee, and as long as I don't eat too much of it, I haven't noticed these causing problems.

I make my own mascarpone using heavy cream and fresh lemon juice. It tastes better than store-bought and costs much less, and also make yoghurt with HWC and added unsweetened, gelatin granules.

Some may not be able to tolerate anything but butter or clarified butter. There is good info on food intolerances here:

http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/content/elimination-diet.aspx

Peter Dobromylskyj at Hyperlipid explains a great deal about the use of high fat dairy.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

Dr. Kurt Harris, as well, explains much at Panu:

http://www.paleonu.com/

Hope this helps a bit.

Stancel · Answer 5 · 2010-07-29 23:29:10Z UTC

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Butter is high in calories. While I do not endorse low-fat diets, I do not think that it is easy to track your calories when you are adding butter to your food. Yes, you can meticulously measure it, but that is difficult.

answered Jul 29 2010 at 23:29

Stancel
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A black box is an object which can be viewed solely in terms of its input, output and transfer characteristics without any knowledge of its internal workings. Human beings on the other hand employ a complex interaction of hormonal chemicals to metabolize specific macro nutrients. In summary: Humans are not opaque objects or bomb calorimeters... Calories in does not equal calories out. Learn it, know it, live it. – Earl Cannonbear Jul 30 2010 at 2:57

Calories in, calories out, is not true of health. But people on both low-fat and low-carb diets can lose weight. It is not because of the content of their diet, but because of a calorie deficit. The ability to string together complex words does not impress me. And I never said that humans were "opaque objects" or "bomb calorimeters". – Stancel Jul 30 2010 at 7:36

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Stancel, your understanding of the weight loss process needs an update. This community is full of people who permanently lost lots of weight at a rate that would astound many mainstream "experts" -- and they did it while eating butter and failing to count calories. The truth is that 2000 calories' worth of cookies and 2000 calories' worth of bacon and eggs have very different effects on the body. Read Gary Taubes and get up to speed. – John R Jul 30 2010 at 12:50

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First of all, butter and margarine are very different things. But more to the point, I suspect you're being downvoted because you're arguing from a calorie-counting perspective, which this community does not tend to embrace (to put it mildly). – John R Jul 30 2010 at 13:49

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Butter is very nutritious. I use several pats on my vegetables and continue to lose weight without any problems. My understanding is that it contains medium chain triglycerides which are burned quickly and actually speed up metabolism. – Mr. Trashcan Jul 31 2010 at 3:39

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Weight-loss and butter/cream

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