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I have avoided soy for the last 5 years. I have no doubt that my veganism and heavy soy consumption directly correlate to my development of several endocrine disorders (including hypothyroidism). So, understandably, I don't feed my family (including my two small boys) soy products, and it is easy for me to believe most negative press that I read about soy. Phytoestrogens: gah!!!

Here is my problem: my dear grandmother, who is 85 and coming for an extended visit, is totally hooked on super-sweet soymilk. It is the one thing that she consumes in quantity every day. So, it turns out, is her very health-conscious son (my uncle) who is also visiting. And the best part? Both of them are also hypothyroid. I went to the store to buy her a box of her "milk", to make her feel at home. I couldn't do it. I ended up buying some "So Delicious Coconut Milk"; still nothing I would drink or feed my family, but it seemed less evil.

So here is my question: What information/links can I provide to my family (mainly my uncle, who is a pro-athlete, carb loving, anti-fat machine) to educate them on the evils of soy? I truly didn't take much convincing, so this is one paleo battle that I don't really have arsenal for.

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"I have no doubt that my veganism and heavy soy consumption directly correlate to my development of several endocrine disorders (including hypothyroidism)." Same here. – Pedrita Mar 22 2012 at 20:58

15 Answers

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Yeah, I'd say coconut milk is a healthy drink as long as it isn't sweetened. Blend in some berries for even more yummy taste.

If your relatives say soy is healthy, remind them that the Chinese only consumed heavily fermented soy. That's because raw soy is poisonous. The plant was originally only used to help rehab the crop lands via nitrogen fixing inbetween other good crops. It was only after the CHinese figured out how to ferment it that they considered it safe enough to eat. Soy is full of phytic acid,one of the highest concentrations of any grain, which is an antinutrient. Consumption of soy has been correlated with low sperm counts in men. Soybeans also contain potent enzyme inhibitors. These inhibitors block uptake of trypsin and other enzymes that the body needs for protein digestion. Cooking does not get rid of them. Soybeans also contain hemagglutinin, a clot promoting substance that causes red blood cells to clump together and prevent them from performing their functions. Also, experts have found that children who develop Type 1 diabetes are twice as likely to have been fed soy formulas as those fed all other foods. Ninety nine percent of all crop soy plants are genetically modified and are one of the most heavily pesticide treated crop plants

Processing into soy protein isolate ameliorates some of these problems but not all. PLus the processing methods leach aluminum into the final product and the high heat denatures much of the proteins, thereby making them unusable to the human body. And the spray drying process creates a large percentage of nitrites which are believed to be carcinogens.

Most important for people with thyroid problems, soy contains goitrogens which depress thyroid function!!

Remember that most of the hype surrounding the benefits of soy came from the soy industry themselves in order to sell their product. Soy is a cheap filler with minimal taste, just the kind of thing that big business likes to add to food products. But they don't really care about your health. -Eva

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I second Eva's comment. – Kartya13 Aug 3 2010 at 18:13
Thanks, Eva! Great points! – Mama J Aug 3 2010 at 19:54
Just don't tell them the facts about unfermented soy while they're supping their soy-milky coffee, etc... Find your Kairos - thepaleogarden.com/2009/07/06/… – Girl Gone Primal Aug 4 2010 at 3:48
Great answer, a good summary of soy's toxicity. – Pedrita Mar 22 2012 at 20:56
True, food industry has done what its best at; it took a traditional food out of its context, ignoring all the wisdom behind its special preparation, and twist it into mass produced junk. Soy milk, soy sausages, soy everything. A far cry from soy as natto, tempeh and fermented sauce. I love natto by the way! Cheeseslave's natto with homemade bbq sauce is awesome :-) – Milla Mar 22 2012 at 21:11
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My question to you is this - why do you want to change them? Have they asked you why you don't eat soy? do they WANT to change their dietary lifestyle?

I read that you mean well and want the best for them. Imagine that your uncle and grandmother show up at your house with an arsenal of "information" to help you understand that the consumption of meat is terrible. What would you do? How would you feel?

The internet is full of plenty of information about soy. If you want to be ready for a conversation, just use the information given you before you gave up soy. If what you got wasn't enough, try this http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-alert.html.

Then, go get the soy milk, and get other foods that you do eat. Prepare tasty, colorful and paleo meals for them if you wish. And if they don't like it, have other items available for them. They're coming to visit to see you - not to eat food they don't like or get a lecture.

Be the example, and be open for their questions, welcome their visit, enjoy their company, hope for an opening to talk about your dietary perspective. Just be careful not to judge their choices. They made them in a spirit of information, same as you, whether you were vegetarian or paleo.

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I could have clarified, I suppose. My uncle and I have always had lengthy discussions about health, and for many years we were on the same page. Honestly, with two very small kids and a full plate, I would be happy to not have my choices challenged, but they will be. My dad seems pretty impressed at the changes going paleo has inspired in me and my family here, and I am positive that he has been talking with his brother about it. My plan is to cook paleo dishes I think they'll love. I will just be surprised if I don't get questioned. – Mama J Aug 3 2010 at 6:32
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And as far as "go get the soy milk", I am having a hard time buying something for people that I love when it damaged me so badly. I gave up soy because, after an elimination diet, I realized that it was the worst thing for my body. That's why I don't have an arsenal of info. – Mama J Aug 3 2010 at 6:35
I agree that it's not good ju-ju to spring a lecture on anyone, but I also completely empathise with the gut-sink that comes from being faced with buying loved ones food products that I know will hurt them. My rule of thumb is to let them know that I don't stock those products because I know they're not good for me (making it about me) and that I am happy to provide them with alternatives everyone can enjoy, but they're also welcome to buy their own if they really can't live without those foods. It's hard not to be judgmental, & there's always risk of offending, so it depends on priorities. – Girl Gone Primal Aug 3 2010 at 9:44
I understand better now. Here is a podcast from Jimmy Moore (living la vida lo-carb) that you can listen with your uncle: bit.ly/dvgnfa, and have the lengthy discussions you both enjoy! – Cheryl - Diabetes Bootcamp Aug 3 2010 at 18:06
Thanks for the ideas, @GGP! That sounds like a great approach. @Superfox-awesome link! That is_exactly_what I was looking for! Also, thanks for helping me clarify my question. – Mama J Aug 3 2010 at 19:53
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Lots of omega 6. Estrogen mimic. Genetically engineered, with unpredictable results. Why would you need more info?

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I've written an article on the dangers of soy here: http://thepaleodiet.net/dangers-soy/

In a few words: goitrogenic, trypsin inhibition, lectins, phytates and estrogen raising factors.

The Weston A. Price also has a good listing: http://www.westonaprice.org/soy-alert.html

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i would love some information as well because i have been trying to convince a friend of mine about why soy is dangerous, but she won't listen to my arguments. please everyone, help us?

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Here is an excellent and super easy article on soy.... it's called Why Soy Sucks:-)

http://starboard.flowtheory.net/blog/2010/05/23/why-soy-sucks/

It's AWESOME and easy for non-paleo people to read and understand as well!

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In fact this guy has a whole Paleo Series that is super accessible. He's a great writer and I have personally used his writing to explain everything to loads of people.

http://starboard.flowtheory.net/blog/tag/aboutpaleo/

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I've been avoiding soy for awhile now because of my Hashimoto's/Hypothyroid and the fact that I'm fat, which means I have plenty of stored estrogen (it was the first thing I cut) but if I ever wavered, what surely would have brought me back was watching Food, Inc. and seeing how Monsanto is putting farmers and seed cleaners out of business if they won't buy their Round-Up resistant GM soybean seeds. Virtually any soy product in the US is from Monsanto GM soybean seeds.

On that note, I'm glad I cut dairy, too, because I was hooked on Organic Valley and I recently read that Whole Foods, Organic Valley and another well known organic brand I can't remember are caving to Monsanto, saying we have to learn to live with genetically modified food. Uh, no thanks.

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If your uncle is an athlete, maybe he would listen to Charles Poliquin, one of the most successful strength and conditioning coaches in the world:

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article.aspx?ID=32

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"I ended up buying some "So Delicious Coconut Milk"; still nothing I would drink or feed my family, but it seemed less evil. "

What's your problem with So Delicious Coconut Milk? Are you referring to one of the sweetened versions?

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Even the plain version is very processed and contains fillers/gelling agents – Nicole Aug 3 2010 at 17:16
Yes, the milk is sweetened, and has fillers. – Mama J Aug 3 2010 at 19:52
The one I buy has just coconut milk and water as the ingredients. Not sure what else to look for. I know the labeling laws are pretty loosy goosy though. – Eva Aug 4 2010 at 2:24
It's coconut milk designed for a long shelf life. Get the one in the can and keep it in your fridge and see how quickly it spoils. You can keep So Delicious in your fridge for weeks and it won't spoil. – Namby Pamby Mar 22 2012 at 20:40
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I can understand how any processed food could become toxic, but Chinese and Japanese have been eating edamame (non GMO) for a very long time.

Are there any actual scientific studies on the compounds within edamame?

I'm really interested if a vegan/vegetarian can move towards a Paleo-ish diet using soy and other beans as protein sources. It seems like the vegetarian or plant-based diet movement is gaining momentum.

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Oh... This is too sad! I LOVE my soymilk.. So delicious = (

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What do you guys think about this blog post by Leo Babauta of Zen Habits. He just released it and it's been circulating all around twitter today...Basically he is saying that all the bad info on soy is a scam...(fyi he is a vegetarian and does mention his fear of saturated fats in the article, but he does make some interesting points....)

hah-forgot to include the link...

http://zenhabits.net/soy/

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Alex, would you mind asking this as a question so we can all discuss it? – Paul May 31 2011 at 20:37
If you don't I will .... – Paul May 31 2011 at 20:38
Thanks Alex! ....... – Paul May 31 2011 at 23:13
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Not to be picky, but "I don't feed my family (including my two small boys) soy products". Aren't your two boys already part of the family? "Family" automatically includes them, no?

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My parents are in their 80s, and eat worse crap than soymilk -- I'm talking fat-free half and half and endless cookies and cake. Are they receptive to my lectures on healthy eating? No. (They are retired physicians!) Or they might be politely interested but they're not going to buy different food. Frankly, if she's 85, just be glad your grandmother has an appetite and is having a decent calorie intake in any form, and enjoy her company. I would also get your uncle what he likes, and perhaps pursue the lecture via email after he leaves. When I have company I suck it up and buy what I know they like -- bread for my parents, Boca Burgers for my vegetarian friend. (All right, I won't buy fat-free half and half for anybody.) That's called being a gracious host, as opposed to a pain they won't want to visit again.

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