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EDIT: Based on comments below, I've decided to (a) chill for a bit and see how paleo works out for me, but also (b) due to the weight loss I should up my calorie intake in my PWO shake. The best way I can find of doing this is with raw milk, so I've just placed my first order for 10pints next week! This should hopefully add around 700kcal (2pts) to each PWO meal and help me recover/ build more quickly.

I'll report back on any noticeable results in a future post; including whether or not reintroducing lactose sets off my back-acne again.

Cheers,

Hi guys (first post!)

I have a quick question around paleo and working out. I'm 5'8", male, 26, and ballpark 175-180lbs (sorry, I'm English so mostly work in kilos!). I've been 100% paleo for about the last month, eventually deciding to take the plunge to try and clear up acne which seemed to materialise on my back out of nowhere around August; but aside from pre-workout porridge, and PWO weightgianer/whole milk combo, my diet has not really changed. I've also been IF'ing for about 6 months.

I've been eating round-abouts 3,000+ kcal/day since starting paleo - I say 3000+ since I know for a fact I eat a lot more animal per day than what I first estimated (500-600grams). I've also been known to gorge on an occassional extra whole coconut.

And yet - somehow I've lost somewhere between 4 and 6 kilos (?!) and my waist has shrunk by 2 inches. While this is awesome, my lifts seem to have suffered. I worked my balls off to get my deadlift to 585lbs, and am dismayed to now be struggling with 540 - similar goes for the other lifts.

Do I just need to eat more of what I'm already eating, or is sugars to really push the insulin spike post-workout forgiveable? I'm considering reintroducing whole milk, but hesitating since my back has cleared up pretty well, and I hear many people linking this to dairy. I'm also concerned about bloating up again :P

My current 'paleo PWO' shake is 60g egg-white powder, 40g each malto/dextrose, 1 banana, frozen berries, 5g leucine. This is around 700kcal, which is still nowhere near to the 1600 I used to chug down - mostly due to water being skinnier than whole milk ><

Any advice/ opinions much appreciated :)

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wow 585! Respect! – Max B. Dec 8 2011 at 11:53
any particular reason you want to add extra calories from outside rather than burning up your own stores? – AndyM Dec 8 2011 at 15:53
If I could go back to your age, I would not squat/deadlift "heavy." As a result of doing such things as squatting 405 for 19 reps when I was in my 20s I now suffer from lumbar facet syndrome (ended the career of Ivan Lendl). I would have laughed at the following when I was your age, but the body is really not designed to support very heavy weights atop the spine, esp. on a regular basis... – Daniel Kirsner Dec 11 2011 at 2:26
@Andy - because what Im looking at is speeding up muscular recovery after shagging out my CNS; this is not 'fat-burning' training I'm doing :P @Daniel - Interesting, I've not heard this before? It does make sense however, but surely this would apply to squatting more than deadlifting? I'll check out further reading on the subject :) – heavyarms Dec 12 2011 at 10:45

5 Answers

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I wouldn't be concerned that your muscles have wasted away, it may simply take a bit of time to adjust to get the same kind of efficiency in the energy pathways that you had going before. Or course, if you're concerned with max performance then getting a carb bump before the workout is important, and getting in more afterwards may help speed your recovery, but power lifting shouldn't really exhaust muscle glycogen so that shouldn't be a problem. For regular training, there's an argument for working in a depleted state rather than making every session 'competetive'. In due course I'd expect that you'd be able to do better in the long run using mostly fat. There's a fair bit of evidence of people getting their best lifts when fasted after all.

Personally, I wouldn't react too quickly, wait to see what the direction of travel is and if you're unable to start increasing your lifts again then try changing one thing at a time. It's invaluable to learn what actually affects your performance from one day to the next.

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Good advice Andy thanks :) I'll slog it out a bit longer and hope there's light at the end of the tunnel! And ye you're definitely right about fasted training giving best lifts. I get all my maxes when I train on saturdays when Im not at work until 6pm! – heavyarms Dec 8 2011 at 11:57
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Greg Everett's Catalyst Athletics: Olympic Weightlifting, Strength & Conditioning, Nutrition, may be a good resource to spend some time on.

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Looks good! I'll check it out :D – heavyarms Dec 8 2011 at 14:12
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Welcome, and serious respect with that deadlift! What do you squat?

The short story, yes paleo is good for power-lifting and it sounds like you need to eat more.

Longer story, paleo is just fine for power-lifting, in fact beneficial, if you're consuming a few troughs worth of food you want your gut lining to be in tip top condition to absorb all those nutrients you're eating - a paleo diet will promote good gut health and good digestion.

You also want your diet to be anti-inflammatory, this will promote better recovery - as working out is inflammatory in nature.

I also think you really want to get your pwo meal back to the 1600 you used to consume, I would be going for at least 500g of meat and 500g of starch from something like sweet potato.

Milk works great if you can tolerate it, experiment with raw milk and see how that goes, most people seem to tolerate it a whole lot better than pasteurised milk, though YMMV.

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Thanks ^^ for PWO I tend to stick with a shake, since this would delay my intake by about 20mins; would you still recommend solid food over liquid in this case? (one day I swear I'll have a rack at home and this will be a thing of the past... :P) I think I may have to return to milk. Im the UK it's nigh-impossible to get "raw" milk without paying an absolute fortune. But we can get goats milk; would this be a better alternative? As for squat - hmm, less good than my DL^^;; around 540 with a box; but below 500 free since I dont have the leverage to sit back on my hammeis properly :( – heavyarms Dec 8 2011 at 14:13
I personally think you're better of with real food, and that includes milk, but at the end of the day you have to go with what works for you. I quite often have a liter of raw milk as soon as i get in the car after my workout and then go and eat a monster meal about an hour later. Raw goats milk is great, and it will be A2 as goats don't have the mutated gene that creates the A1 casein that many people have issues with. – Rhubarb Dec 8 2011 at 22:34
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You may also want to look into the crossfitfootball power athlete nutrition. Plenty of people use crossfit football to train for powerlifting.

http://www.crossfitfootball.com/page/index.php?menu=nutrition&page=nutrition

I second what people have said already that raw milk might be a good way to add calories if you can find it and tolerate it. If not, bump up the amount of eggs in your diet. The top post on a recent nutrition tuesday was plenty of people providing anecdotal evidence that increased egg consumption correlated with increased strength.

ALSO 585 is boss!

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Do you get that malware error? Saw it via Google Chrome. – PolkaAches Dec 8 2011 at 13:15
I eat 6 eggs everyday already (even Christmas) D: Would a dozen a day be pushing it? Seems the general consensus is "find raw or unhomogenised milk and cram it into your existing PWO shake" - does that sound fair? Time for me to go e-shopping. As I said; "raw" anything is bloody hard to find in the UK :( – heavyarms Dec 8 2011 at 14:16
In Mark Sisson's "how to gain weight and build muscle" he advocates a dozen eggs a day for those who can't drink milk. I haven't tried it though. marksdailyapple.com/gain-weight-build-muscle I believe the consensus is that egg whites can be dangerous when overeaten (not sure the cap) so if you are worried just eat yolks. – JakeA Dec 8 2011 at 17:32
Yeah, my guts go to hell if I overdo the eggs, but they're fine for me in moderation. That said plenty of people can do a dozen a day without issue. Good advice with only using the yolks if you do have issues. – Rhubarb Dec 8 2011 at 22:36
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I find that 1L of unhomogenized after working out has been the best recovery drink I have ever found. (I would be drinking Raw if I could find it without costing my left arm)

Pre workout I normally eat nothing. Depends if I am hungry or not.

Last Saturday I just PR'd On my deadlift after doing a 1RM overhead Squat, and a CrossFit wod consisting of Clean and jerks and doulbe unders. Managed to Pull 585 I do have a couple inches on you as well as I'm right at 199-200 pretty consistently. That was a 35 pound PR and I have not done deadlifts outside of a CrossFit wod for 2 months. Most weight I lifted was 335.

My clean and Jerk has gone up to 275, My shoulder Press 188 (after being stuck at 155 for years) and my bench has started moving up again after last year it was 205 a couple months ago I bench 265.

Everything to do with lifts has gone up after I started drinking milk again. I stopped for 2 years and my strength gains does not even match what it was when I was eating 6000 Cal a day. Now I eat when I want and drink milk after a workout.

I normally refer to milk as the recovery drink of the gods.

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