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I'm 14 years old, and want to become "completely" Paleo. I'm having no problems with giving up grain products, however, dairy is much more difficult. I have to admit I'm kind of insecure about the idea, even though I know dairy isn't very beneficial. Also, I'm having conflicts with my parents on giving up all dairy products. They're mainly concerned about me getting enough calcium, and are still held back by the idea that dairy is the only source. Does anyone have any thoughts about how to get plenty of calcium without dairy? I know that you can get it from veggies, but what types, and how much would you have to eat? Thanks

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Goat dairy is definitely a good suggestion, as is just cutting back. Also, perhaps your parents would be open to the idea of a calcium supplement while you try the no-dairy approach for a month or two? – Invisible Caveman Jan 5 2012 at 10:54
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This is such a great question, I'm surprised it's not up-voted more! o.O Anyway, my answer is below, and I hope you find the balance that's right for you and your body. :) I also found some charts online that better illustrate... show your parents the bok choy compared to the milk, and they're jaws will drop. ;) 1st calcium comparison chart: diseaseproof.com/CalciumVeggies2.JPG 2nd calcium comparison chart: dairyfreecookingforkids.com/images/tables/… – Esther Jan 5 2012 at 13:21
Did I really misspell their*? Lol... woops. – Esther Jan 5 2012 at 13:21

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Don't get caught up in paleo "purity" striving for "complete" paleo. Just do what works. Minimizing things like dairy, gluten, other neolithic foods, etc is 90% (SWAG) as effective as eliminating them all together.

I was a milk-addict when I was a kid, drinking nearly a gallon per day at times. But I've recently weaned myself off large amounts of fluid milk, while not cutting all dairy out (after all, occasional cheese, cream, sour cream, etc... are all very tasty!) I've found that I do better without the fluid milk, there might be some advantage to go totally dairy-free, but I'm not willing to forgo foods I enjoy without significant health advantages.

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SWAG = scientific wild ass guess. – Matt Jan 5 2012 at 14:45
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I can definitely relate to giving up dairy! I'm doing the Whole30 challenge this month, and talked about (whined about) my issues with giving up dairy on my blog.

The idea that we need dairy for adequate calcium is definitely a myth. You can get calcium from foods like broccoli, spinach, sardines, and most nuts... and you might not even need as much as you think, as Living Paleo suggests.

I'm not a doctor or a nutritionist, but I have a theory that the reason for why people eating a neolithic diet seem to believe they need large amount of calcium (and they probably do) is because of their highly acidic diet. Because they eat such large quantities of grains, they need the extra calcium to strengthen their bones from the acidic load. But of course, getting calcium from dairy can be problematic for a lot of people.

One question to ask is, do you actually have a problem with dairy? If you do, and it effects you negatively, I would opt to give it up all-together, and read this article at Whole9.

However, if you are able to tolerate some dairy, then you might consider staying away from conventional dairy, and get more higher quality full-fat dairy sources, and read this article at Paleo Diet Lifestyle.

You might even consider reading both articles -- the Whole9 article which is against dairy entirely, and the Paleo Diet Lifestyle article which promotes certain types of dairy -- and then come up with your own conclusion.

Good luck, and hope you find the balance that's right for you! :)

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Broccoli would be a good choice for a vegetable. I would keep dairy(maybe have a little less). Perhaps keep butter.

I like Kurt Harris's view on dairy:

http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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I second Dr. Harris' outline, as it's actually what I've started Paleo with. However, I'm not entirely sure that dairy is not a problem for me, and in my 2nd month I switched over to goat dairy for yogurt and cheese, and just kept pastured cow butter. For January, I'm leaving out the yogurt and cheese to see how I do and might reintroduce it next month. – Invisible Caveman Jan 5 2012 at 10:50
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Paleo opposes dairy because of lactose and casein problems. I agree with this opposition, but there's a middle approach that actually works fine for me without adverse effects: goat/sheep lactose-free dairy. The goat/sheep casein is different than the problematic cow one, and the limited lactose helps on that too. Interestingly, I wrote an article on my blog about exactly this just a few hours ago: http://eugenia.queru.com/2012/01/04/paleo-and-dairy/

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Lactose is only a problem if you're lactose-intolerant, which it appears the OP is not. – Matt Jan 5 2012 at 17:50
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Even if you're not lactose-intolerant, lactose is still lots of sugar. – Eugenia Jan 5 2012 at 18:33
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Should the op give up fruit cause they have sugar? Sugar is precisely as healthy as saturated fat. Meaning: it ranges from not healthy to very healthy, depending on the circumstances. – conciliator Jan 6 2012 at 17:11
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Lactose is a polysaccharides sugar, not glucose/fructose which are monosaccharides. I came to Paleo from the SCD world, which is a Paleo-like diet optimized for gut health and was our only defense for us with IBD/IBS before Paleo became popular as a diet in 2008, and this is its mantra: poly- are very difficult to digest because they're complex sugars (ending up as food for bad bacteria, creating leaky gut), but mono- are not. So fruit/honey sugar is safe, lactose/other-sugars are not. Doesn't mean it'll kill you if you have some, of course. – Eugenia Jan 6 2012 at 17:30
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If you have no symptoms of dairy intolerance I don't think you need to give up dairy completely. I don't think I'd do Matt's gallon per day :-)) but I use a little cream in my coffee, I eat 1/2 cup of yogurt every day and I occasionally cook my eggs in butter.

On the other hand, if you notice symptoms of something not being quite right, your dairy would be the first thing to suspect.

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You are 14. Get off nutrition websites before you develop an eating disorder. You know what's healthy: veggies, fruits, lean meats, dairy. Don't be afraid of fat, don't be afraid of carbs, use them in moderation as they work for you. And dairy is good for you if you tolerate it, especially as you are 14 years old.

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Why would you tell her to get off nutrition websites? I think it's great that a teenager is concerned about their health and wants to eat healthy! Learning about how foods affect the body on not only a personal level, but on a scientific scale, is a GOOD thing, no matter the age. Would you discourage a 6-year-old from learning that popsicles and ice cream for breakfast are unhealthy? Of course not! So please don't discourage this courageous 14-year-old that wants to take control of her health and wellbeing. She will have a brighter, healthier future for it. :) – Esther Jan 7 2012 at 16:41
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I use to buy raw grass-fed whole cow's milk and make my own yogurt, drinking around 1 cup per day... low in lactose, lots of good healthy fats and full of vitamins/minerals... right?

Well, all that may be true, but I decided to cut dairy out for a month and it has made a significant difference. My digestion is more complete, and the acne I had on my face went away... Also, for a couple days after cutting out all dairy I had headaches, which I never get otherwise. It could be unrelated, but after doing a little reading it seems like I'm not the only one that has experienced these symptoms.

In my case, I think it has to do with the A1 type milk casein (the milk protein found in most US milk) and the possible issues associated with its consumption. Goats milk is mainly A2, and also low in lactose, so I might experiment with that in the future to see if it makes any difference.

Morale of the story; just try taking it out and see how you feel, then go from there!

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Robb Wolf interviewed Loren Cordain about his new book: The Paleo Answer

Cordain mentions the RDA for calcium is likely based on unrealistic assessments due to the fact they were arrived at in milk drinking cultures. Seth Roberts takes on epidemiology and in the process points out: In spite of the conventional idea, the rate of hip fracture has been highest in places where people eat a lot of calcium, such as Sweden, and lowest in places where they eat little, such as Hong Kong.

Now, take a minute before you tell them about this stuff and ask yourself whether or not hitting them with logic and science will actually help or hinder your cause.

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Thanks for all the great answers! Unfortunately I'm "not allowed" to give up dairy (seriously, my parents are so closed-minded it's insane), I was thinking of a compromise where I have the occasional kefir, cheese and butter. I also found the marrow bone broth idea to be interesting.

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Hey Tansaku!

I am lactose intolerant. I have been on/off with dairy, but i must admit, after i have eaten cheese (aged Gouda cheese for example), butter or milk(lactose free, D vitamin added) i feel my teeth are stronger.And i would say the sensation comes very quickly.Try products that are lactose free or with a low content of it. If you are not getting your food with organic-super-quality, i think it would be wiser to add some milk, especially when u are not intolerant!

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Hey, I'm sixteen and have been paleo for almost a year know. Before hand I was raw vegan (eliminated dairy cold turkey) and it helped clear up my skin(especially when I dropped the grains). In order for your body to absorb calcium, you need to have magnesium with it. Brocolli of course is a super source but so is rare or even raw ground beef. In addition you can make your own calcium supplement by fine grinding egg shells ( one per day) and adding a bit of lemon juice to it to make it bioavailable to the body. You can buy gelatin capsules at most health food stores or pharmacies and its a cheap supplement. In addition, almonds, salmon, sardines, almost all green leafy vegetables and flax are good sources. The body does not need as much calcium as you have been lead to believe.

"Tere is also evidence showing that certain cells in our body play the roll of bringing calcium into our bones, and other cells which play the roll of taking calcium out of our bones. There is a limit for how many cells responsible for bringing calcium into our bones stay around for. If during our lives we begin to consume too much calcium, these cells will be used up a lot faster due to the fact more are needed to transport the calcium into our bones. If say after 10years you have no more calcium transporting cells, your body is no longer going to be able to replenish our bones with calcium to stay strong. This may help explain why Eskimos who consume a high amount of calcium, up to 2000mg a day through sea animals, have a high rate of osteoporosis. Sourced from :http://www.livingpaleo.com/dairy-isnt-the-only-answer/

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I'm not sure it's true that Inuit had osteoporosis. Look at this link, for example, from before Matesz went off the deep end: donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/02/… " Anyway, this exercise demonstrated again how hearsay gets passed around the scientific community. It seems likely that neither Eaton, Konner, nor Cordain read the Mazess article, or they would have realized that it did not support their claim of lower bone density among Eskimos" – Ambimorph Jan 5 2012 at 17:22
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I would say eat a lot of spinach salad leaves with your paleo seafood or meat choices.

My default dinner is organ meat or seafood and salad.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=45

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Spinach has a lot of oxalic acid which reduces the absorption of the calcium. – ROB Jan 7 2012 at 1:19
It's not clear how much. I wouldn't worry about oxalates unless you have a specific condition. – I'm_with_Raquel Jan 7 2012 at 1:39
I mean - how much it reduces the absorption. – I'm_with_Raquel Jan 7 2012 at 1:40

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