Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

17

I have gotten into the habit of eating blueberries on the same plate as my meat and vegetables, rather than eating them separately as a dessert.

What I want to know is, are there any benefits to raising blood-glucose before eating fats, while eating fats or after eating fats?

Is there a best period to be eating high glycemic foods? Are they better to be eaten alone and away from fats or eaten alongside them? Does eating high glycemic foods increase the formation and storage of triglycerides in the adipose tissue more before, during, or after consuming fats?

Simply knowing this may be helpful in choosing when to eat the carbohydrates, and to minimise fat storage.

Many thanks,

08/01/11:
From what I understand theoretically:

Raised ingestion of carbohydrate, raised blood-glucose, raised levels of inuslin, raised formation of glyecrol, raised formation and storage of triclycerides from free fatty-acids.

Thus in the constant flux, would it be beneficial to eat fats during a low blood-glucose period, and eat carbohydrates during a low free fatty-acid period? Obviously it is not so simple, but if both parties need to be involved in the formation and storage of triclycerides then I would have thought one could isolate the ingestion of each during the lowest levels of the other, thus buring glucose for fuel in the absense of high free fatty-acids, and burning free fatty-acids in the absense of high glucose (glycerol) levels.

11/01/11:
For the first time I can't say I actually have an answer to this. I actually submitted it to Robb Wolf, but I don't think it will make the podcast. I think I will have to spend some more effort Googling this.

edited Jan 11 2012 at 23:26

asked Jan 5 2012 at 15:38

PolkaAches
8,375●7●33

5

Good question, but this English teacher truly upvoted you for your title. :) – staceychev Jan 5 2012 at 16:24

This non-teacher did too--I did a double-take at first and then LOL. – Nance Jan 5 2012 at 17:26

6

In Sweden I often enjoyed reindeer with a lingonberry sauce. – Bread-Eating Beelzebub Jan 5 2012 at 18:34

3

Melissa, you are, without a doubt, the most eclectic person in the universe. – Dave S. Jan 5 2012 at 19:07

Bill1102inf · Accepted Answer · 2012-01-09 00:41:24Z UTC

"Eating everything together may mitigate an insulin response, but if you are eating properly then there is not necessarily any gain to this"

Eating everything together does not mitigate an insulin response.

Lets leave protein out of the equation right now.

Consuming high gi carbohydrate blended with fat will cause just as much of an insulin response as consuming the high gi carb first, and then the fat. Even if the fat slowed it down a slight bit, it would not be enough to cause a different outcome.

In the presence of a 'glycogen spike' and therefore an insulin spike, carbohydrate burning increases and fat burning decreases. Storage of glycogen increases and storage of FFA increases.

While consumption of carbohydrate increases oxidation of carbohydrate, consumption of fat does not increase oxidation of fat.

Unless its someones goal to gain body fat, consuming high gi carbohydrate along with fat is a bad idea.

If only one meal is consumed, once insulin returns to normal, that stored fat will be released and used for fuel. However, if that same type of meal, is eaten over and over and over 3x-(god forbid 6x) a day fat gain most certainly will occur.

Eating a sweet potato and a steak PWO is another matter completely as your muscle/liver glycogen is low, its a low GI carb, and most likely you are consuming a moderately low amount of fat in your steak.

"What I want to know is, are there any benefits to raising blood-glucose before eating fats, while eating fats or after eating fats? <---There is absolutely no benefit to raising blood glucose levels before,during, or after eating fats.

"Is there a best period to be eating high glycemic foods?" <-- Away from high fat foods.

"Are they(carbohydrate) better to be eaten alone and away from fats or eaten alongside them?" <--- It depends on what state your body is in , what your glycogen storage levels are and what you are trying to accomplish.

"Does eating high glycemic foods increase the formation and storage of triglycerides in the adipose tissue more before, during, or after consuming fats?" <---- Eating high GI foods increases the storage of FFA in adipose tissue in the presence of high gi carbs+insulin+fat, it matters little what order you eat the food in.

"Thus in the constant flux, would it be beneficial to eat fats during a low blood-glucose period, and eat carbohydrates during a low free fatty-acid period?" <-- You are NEVER in a 'low blood glucose period'(barring diabetes), physiology does not allow for such a thing.

"Obviously it is not so simple, but if both parties need to be involved in the formation and storage of triclycerides then I would have thought one could isolate the ingestion of each during the lowest levels of the other, thus buring glucose for fuel in the absense of high free fatty-acids, and burning free fatty-acids in the absense of high glucose (glycerol) levels." <-- You are correct. (Although over consumption of fat WILL cause fat gain), don't buy into the BS that a person can eat just fat, tons of it, and lose weight. Sure, they can lose their muscle mass and glycogen mass faster than the fat can be packed on, but eating fat does not increase the rate at which fat is burned.

Dave S. · Answer 2 · 2012-01-05 16:00:56Z UTC

13

Let M be a bite of meat, let V be a bite of vegetable and let B be one blueberry. Eat as follows:

VVMBBMVBMMVBBBVMVVB and repeat until finished.

Now, let M=0, V=1 and B=2. Convert the above string to octal and subract your eight digit birthday. Mod 4 this number to determine whether you should be paleo, vegan, raw vegan or fruitarian.

answered Jan 5 2012 at 16:00

Dave S.
20.9k●1●11●65

2

I knew somebody really smart would answer this question. – BaconHealsChic Jan 5 2012 at 16:07

2

That looks like the output of a Turing machine. Homework for the reader, please design such a Turing machine, and post a GIF of it's design here. – raydawg Jan 5 2012 at 17:08

1

No, I think we need to convert the letters to musical notes--we'll have a PH theme song! – Nance Jan 5 2012 at 17:27

4

Paleo already has a theme song: youtube.com/watch?v=wM89T74MPnE – PolkaAches Jan 5 2012 at 17:35

raydawg · Answer 3 · 2012-01-05 17:07:24Z UTC

With the most respectful apologies to Dr. Seuss: :)

Do you like doughnuts and ham? I do not like them, Sam-I-am. I do not like doughnuts and ham.

Would you like them here or there?

I would not like them here or there. I would not like them anywhere. I do not like doughnuts and ham. I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

Would you like them in a house? Would you like them with a mouse?

I do not like them in a house. I do not like them with a mouse. I do not like them here or there. I do not like them anywhere. I do not like doughnuts and ham. I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

Would you eat them in a box? Would you eat them with a fox?

Not in a box. Not with a fox. Not in a house. Not with a mouse. I would not eat them here or there. I would not eat them anywhere. I would not eat doughnuts and ham. I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

AndyM · Answer 4 · 2012-01-08 00:36:05Z UTC

In the scope of a meal, realistically, everything gets pretty well mixed up in the stomach before serious digestion. More significant for most is the residual taste sensation. Does finishing with something sweet leave you satisfied or just wanting more sweetness?

Going for the Paleo perspective, I don't believe berries would typically have been brought out to accompany a fresh kill, so were likely eaten largely separately.

Eating everything together may mitigate an insulin response, but if you are eating properly then there is not necessarily any gain to this. A healthy body knows how to handle an influx of berries, and it's doesn't look to damage itself in the process. When you eat fats, they're going to be stored in any event. Fat storage isn't the issue, fat is in constant flux, it's the net balance you want to look at. So the question is, how does timing of carbs affect your activity levels and appetite? And as I started with, I think on the level you're talking, that's a personal/habitual thing that is more dependent on the signals dancing round your tongue than any great subtlety of digestion.

Nance · Answer 5 · 2012-01-05 18:24:02Z UTC

2

LOL It feels weird to answer in plain English but I couldn't think of anything creative.

As one of the fruit lovers on PH, I've tried fruit at the beginning of meals, as a stand-alone, combined with yogurt as a separate mini-meal and as dessert at the end of meals.

In my case, it does make a difference and the best results have been with the yogurt and at the beginning of a meal. Standing alone, it's usually okay but I did have a BG spike with pineapple by itself. As dessert, I noticed a little bloating although it didn't last long.

answered Jan 5 2012 at 18:24

Nance
29.8k●1●8●52

Nance, you take measurements on your BG right? So these results are both qualitative and quantitative? ... I thought I remembered another long-time poster on PH who found that she had better experience eating carbs with her meal after a few bites of fat. I don't remember who that was, though. – Sara S. Jan 8 2012 at 1:09

1

Yes, I take measurements. My dominant fruit is grapefruit and I can eat them at any time with hardly a tick in the BG. For higher GI fruits like bananas and pineapple eating them as part ofa meal seems to neutralize any BG spike although I usually start with the fruit. – Nance Jan 8 2012 at 1:53

Bill1102inf · Answer 6 · 2012-01-05 19:18:59Z UTC

"What I want to know is, are there any benefits to raising blood-glucose before eating fats, while eating fats or after eating fats?

Here is a real answer. The answer is no. Seriously. Raising blood glucose levels and the insulin release this causes prompts the body to stop using fat for fuel and start storing the fat in your system.

This is how people get fat (not saying you would get fat from blueberries and meat though). De Novo Lipogenesis - conversion of carbs to fat, IS VERY RARE IN HUMAN BEINGS and is NOT the cause of obesity and insidious fat gain. Its the consumption carbs at the same time as fat.

Therefore: Fat+Protein+low carb or no carb meal = little if any fat gain.

Carbs+ protein = little to any fat gain once the fat circulating is stored

Carbs+fat+w or wo protein = fat gain via the storage of dietary fats while sugar/insulin levels are elevated.

Now, regarding blueberries and meat. If you eat a lb of blueberries there is enough 'glucose' in the 'sucrose' to spike off your blood glucose and insulin. Consume that with a fatty meat and you will be storing that dietary fat as body fat.

A cup of blueberries and lean meat? Not as big of an issue.

1 cup blueberries = 20 grams of carbs. 10 cups = 200 grams.

Big difference between the two when consumed with fat.

BaconHealsChic · Answer 7 · 2012-01-05 15:46:42Z UTC

I can't speak to the triglycerides but theoretically (brings me back to my Zone days) the fat and protein supposedly slow down both the digestion and the blood sugar raising effect of the blueberries. If you are talking about blueberries though...they are lower on the blood sugar spiking spectrum so I think the timing is minimal.

Gary · Answer 8 · 2012-01-05 16:17:26Z UTC

0

Meat? Blueberries?

Reminds me of the classic Peter Kay sketch...Garlic? Bread?

2 substances that simply do not belong together...

Although still infinitely more Paleo than garlic bread...

answered Jan 5 2012 at 16:17

Gary
2,585●2●12

Harlekini · Answer 9 · 2012-01-08 17:22:29Z UTC

0

http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/12/why-sugar-makes-us-sleepy-and-protein-wakes-us-up

answered Jan 8 2012 at 17:22

Harlekini
413●2●6

August · Answer 10 · 2012-01-12 14:34:57Z UTC

Everyone appears to be considering the pros and cons of eating them together; let me suggest trying to eat things apart might be worse. If you go for a strict separation, you eat more times a day. If you eat more times a day, your body is involved with processing food and the subsequent hormone cascades caused by eating. It doesn't really matter what these are so much as that you approach a steady-state.
We can't really be sure whether or not Grok had blueberries with his steak, but we can reasonably assume it is unlikely he ate every two hours and had some sort of ideological reason to avoid carbs with his protein. Grok went long periods of time without food, and then when he found food, he ate a lot of it. Food separation sounds more like a modern American fad diet thing- you probably need a refrigerator, a watch, and really bad advice found in a muscle mag about how you'll lose all your muscle if you don't eat six times a day- to do it. The intermittent fasting/warrior diet folks have pretty much proved this advice is ridiculous.

Paleo_Pal · Answer 11 · 2012-01-11 17:40:58Z UTC

-3

From what I have read, if you eat a fruit with a meal, it can neutralize your stomach's pH and cause the fruit to sit and ferment and the animal fats to go rancid leading to gas and indigestion. Fruit should be eaten 30 minutes before or after a meal.

answered Jan 11 2012 at 17:40

Paleo_Pal
361●3●8

	My follow-up question is, even if I assume the fruit ferments, why is that bad? Sauerkraut, yogurt and water kefir, all of which I consume, are fermented and great for me. – Nance Jan 11 2012 at 17:45
	If it's fermenting INSIDE you, the gas build-up can be problematic, from what I understand. – Paleo_Pal Jan 11 2012 at 17:55
	this is raw vegan psedo-science it has no basis in fact – cliff Jan 12 2012 at 14:38

With my meat something sweet, before or after should I eat?

11 Answers